My thoughts are not your thoughts - saith the Lord

[biblebuf]

• 

 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Pet. 3:8, 9 )
My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, … so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall acomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isa. 55:8-11 )
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God ! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways ! (Rom. 11:32, 33 )

[clark thompson]

• 

We can only see things now, we may be able to think what the future holds but only God does, we need to follow His will and not ours.

[biblebuf]

• 

We can only see things now, we may be able to think what the future holds but only God does, we need to follow His will and not ours.

I agree with you totally Clark, the problem seems to be our (my) inability to listen and understand His will. I believe man's nature is to fight his calling, not totally sure rendering ourselves to Him.

[clark thompson]

• 

It is hard sometimes to now what He wants.

[Kimberley]

• 

What does God want? Jesus explained it simply at John 17:3, (NWT) "This means everlasting life, their 'coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ'." Also, 1Tim. 2:3-5, "This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." it seems amazing that in a world where we are told that all differences of Christian worship are acceptable to God, all bends of understanding and tradition are simply 'all roads leading to Rome', He goes out of his way to say there is an ACCURATE truth. 2Tim. 3:16 (NWT), 'All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight...'. He gives us a text book for living now and in the future.

[Fat]

• 

He gives us a text book for living now and in the future.

Hello Kimberley

If you are looking for the Text Book God has given us it is not the NWT.

[Kimberley]

• 

Good morning. I appreciate your opinion but could you explain why you feel that way? I also have a KJV, ASV, Gideon Bible, an Amplified Bible. I love comparing all as it always proves to me the power of Jehovah to protect his word as they all have the same message. Would you explain please? Hope to hear from you.

[Fat]

• 

Good morning. I appreciate your opinion but could you explain why you feel that way? I also have a KJV, ASV, Gideon Bible, an Amplified Bible. I love comparing all as it always proves to me the power of Jehovah to protect his word as they all have the same message. Would you explain please? Hope to hear from you.

I hope this post finds you in good health and hope that you have your mind clear to understand God's truth.
The most obvious is your mistranslation of John 1. Tell me Kimberley how does your NWT compare to the others you have. Do any of them translate John 1 even close to the way the Watchtower does?

Why do you believe that Jesus is Archangel Michael?

[Kimberley]

• 

1. I will do my best to try to be clear. Have had a stroke so please bear with me. I did not grow up a Witness but became one because what I heard in church did not match what I read in the Bible. I was taught that Jesus was the 'only begotton son of God'. He was a creation of God. God always speaks of himself as 'one'. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah in the Old Testament. Then I read at 1Tim. 2:3-5, "This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, who will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is ONE God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." one God. Jesus is a mediator. When was Jesus created? Jesus being a form of his earthly name. Proverbs 8 explains so much. Verse 22 begins, "Jehovah PRODUCED me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago...." All of chap 8 explains his relationship with his Father. That he was in a special relationship compared to all other angelic sons. v30.

[Kimberley]

• 

2. All of Pr. 8 explains his role as the archangel, his role as a master worker and his Fathers role as the architect. Gen. 1:26 makes sense when it speaks of 'our image' when read understanding Pr. 8:30-31. John1:1-3 speaks of him being "a god". Divine qualities, not human at that time. "all things came into existence THROUGH him." Notice Jesus of speaks of himself as a representative of God. At John 1:6, John the Baptist was spoken of as a representative. Jesus put it so clearly at John 7:28-29. God is a God of order, does not lie. The 'mysteries' are not mysterious at all. When he asked Peter, who was to become a great apostle, "Who do you say I am?" and he relied at Matt. 16:16, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God.", that would have been the time to make clear any confusion. At John 8:29 Jesus says "The one who SENT me is with me, he did not abandon me to myself....". I know that 2Tim 3:16 assures us that the Scriptures 'set matters straight'. I hope you continue to converse with me.

[Fat]

• 

1. I will do my best to try to be clear. Have had a stroke so please bear with me. I did not grow up a Witness but became one because what I heard in church did not match what I read in the Bible. I was taught that Jesus was the 'only begotton son of God'. He was a creation of God. God always speaks of himself as 'one'. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah in the Old Testament. Then I read at 1Tim. 2:3-5, "This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, who will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is ONE God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." one God. Jesus is a mediator. When was Jesus created? Jesus being a form of his earthly name. Proverbs 8 explains so much. Verse 22 begins, "Jehovah PRODUCED me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago...." All of chap 8 explains his relationship with his Father. That he was in a special relationship compared to all other angelic sons. v30.
2. All of Pr. 8 explains his role as the archangel, his role as a master worker and his Fathers role as the architect. Gen. 1:26 makes sense when it speaks of 'our image' when read understanding Pr. 8:30-31. John1:1-3 speaks of him being "a god". Divine qualities, not human at that time. "all things came into existence THROUGH him." Notice Jesus of speaks of himself as a representative of God. At John 1:6, John the Baptist was spoken of as a representative. Jesus put it so clearly at John 7:28-29. God is a God of order, does not lie. The 'mysteries' are not mysterious at all. When he asked Peter, who was to become a great apostle, "Who do you say I am?" and he relied at Matt. 16:16, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God.", that would have been the time to make clear any confusion. At John 8:29 Jesus says "The one who SENT me is with me, he did not abandon me to myself....". I know that 2Tim 3:16 assures us that the Scriptures 'set matters straight'. I hope you continue to converse with me.

Then I read at 1Tim. 2:3-5, "This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God,

2 Peter 2:20 For if, having escaped the world's impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first.

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Peter knew Christ was God, either that or he spoke heresy.

Same with Paul.

2 timothy 1:10 This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

titus 3:6:6 This [Spirit] He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

titus 1:4 To Titus, my true child in our common faith. Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior. (Singular not plural)

Same with John.

John 4:42
And they told the woman, "We no longer believe because of what you said, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this really is the Savior of the world."

And did Luke.

Luke 2:11
today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.

Holman Christian Standard

John1:1-3 speaks of him being "a god"

Not so!

(HCS) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. 4 Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men. 5 That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it. 6 There was a man named John who was sent from God. 7 He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own people did not receive Him.

Note that verse 11 "His own" referring to the people God calls His (Exodus 3:7; 3:10; 5:1; 6:7; 2 chronicles 7:14 and the list goes on and on). In the NWT this becomes a contradiction because of the mistranslation of verse 1. These, the Jews, belong to the Trinity. Read John 17 to see how Christ and His Father share the Elect.

2. All of Pr. 8 explains his role as the archangel,

Nothing at all in Proverbs 8 about any angel.

Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23 "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. (NAS)

Not "created me", as the Targum and the Septuagint version; which version Arius following gave birth to his pernicious doctrine; who from hence concluded Christ is a creature, and was the first creature that God made, not of the same but of a like nature with himself, in some moment or period of eternity; and by whom he made all others: the Word, or Wisdom of God is never said to be created; and if as such he was created, God must have been without his Wisdom before he was created; besides, Christ, as the Word and Wisdom of God, is the Creator of all things, and not created, ( John 1:1-3 ) ; but this possession is not in right of creation, as the word is sometimes used, ( Genesis 4:1 ) ( Deuteronomy 32:6 ) ; it might be more truly rendered, "the Lord begat me", as the word is translated by the Septuagint in ( Zechariah 13:5 ) ; it denotes the Lord's having, possessing, and enjoying his word and wisdom as his own proper Son; which possession of him is expressed by his being with him and in him, and in his bosom, and as one brought forth and brought up by him; as he was "in the beginning of his way" of creation, when he went forth in his wisdom and power, and created all things; then he did possess his Son, and made use of him, for by him he made the worlds: and "in the beginning of his way" of grace, which was before his way of creation; he began with him when he first went out in acts of grace towards his people; his first thoughts, purposes, and decrees concerning their happiness, were in him; the choice of their persons was made in him; God was in him contriving the scheme of their peace, reconciliation, and salvation; the covenant of grace was made with him, and all fulness of grace was treasured up in him: the words may be rendered, "the Lord possessed me, the beginning of his way" ; that is, who am the beginning, as he is; the beginning of the creation of God, the first cause, the efficient of it, both old and new; see ( Colossians 1:18 ) ( Revelation 3:14 ) . So Aben Ezra, who compares with this ( Job 40:19 ) . This shows the real and actual existence of Christ from eternity, his relation to Jehovah his Father, his nearness to him, equality with him, and distinction from him: it is added, for further illustration and confirmation's sake, before his works of old;
the creation of the heavens and the earth; a detail of which there is in the following verses.

So tell us why wasn't Jesus named 'Michael' and not Jesus?

How can salvation come from a created being, why not use a Lamb and not a Man to sacrifice? Why was a Lamb not sufficient? Could not God created a perfect frog to go to the STAKE?

There is only one sacrifice that can pay your ransom. Satan owns you and the blood of a created being, like Satan is a created being, will not suffice as payment.

[Kimberley]

• 

An animal sacrifice would never equal in value the life of mankind. Jesus has been called the 'last Adam'. Adam was a perfect man who lost life for the human family. Jesus was a perfect human who stayed obedient to death to cancel out Adam's sin. With all respect, you seem very knowledgeable. Animal sacrifice showed that the Jews were aware of the need for repentence and forgiveness. I am not trying to be sarcastic you. God has no beginning or end. His son was begotton as the very first creation of his own. We give Jesus worship, not as God but as the designated King of his Fathers Kingdom. He is given honor and respect. At the end of his 1000 year reign he will turn the Kingdom back over to his father and subject himself also so that Jehovah may be all things to everyone. Have you ever looked into a catholic encyclopedia itself and read when the Trinity Doctrine was first introduced? This is not a book written by Jehovah's Witnesses. It is by Roman Catholics.

[Fat]

• 

I am not trying to be sarcastic you. God has no beginning or end. His son was begotton as the very first creation of his own. We give Jesus worship, not as God but as the designated King of his Fathers Kingdom.

Two problems you have just given to yourself. You claim Jesus to be a god and you claim to worship Him. I count that as two gods you worship. Now either Jesus is not a god or you don't worship Him or He and the Father are One or you worship two gods, which is it?

Problem 2 is that Christ Himself says he has no beginning.

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Have you ever looked into a catholic encyclopedia itself and read when the Trinity Doctrine was first introduced? This is not a book written by Jehovah's Witnesses. It is by Roman Catholics.

I am not a Catholic nor do I believe that they follow the teachings of the Scripture. Like JW's and LDS they claim to be the Remanent Church (the only true Christian church) and all follow a false prophet. You follow the Watchtower organization as your prophet (Watchtower,  Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197) it is a false prophet.

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).

 Deut. 18:22 "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

[Kimberley]

• 

Please excuse this short reply but am waiting for ride to dr. so I can only make one point. You mentioned that by saying Jesus is god-like I am calling him 'G'od as in Almighty God. Yet, 2Cor. 4:3-4 tells us, "If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things (John 14:30, 1John 5:19)has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image (Colo 1:13-20) of God, might not shine through." If Jesus is God Almighty than His saying he is 'one Jehovah' or 'our God is one' has become a lie. Philippians 2:5-6, puts their seperateness plain. 'Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form (Heb. 1:3-4), gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God." in Jesus prehuman existence he was of a form like God, a spirit, angelic and not human. Or does Cor. 4:4 mean Satan is God?

[Fat]

• 

Kimberley I pray all goes well at the Dr.

You have put limitations on our Lord, as if He is incapable of being in two places at one or that He can not take up a human form and and experience humility. You don't believe that He can be in two or three forms at one time. My God has no limitations. The only thing my God can not do is violate His own nature, for instance He can not lie.

I bet you have no problem with God being a burning bush or even asked yourself in what form was God when He came to Abraham (Gen 18) and eat and even bargained with him over the fate of Sodom.

Do not limit your Creator, He is either the Almighty or He is not.