Why the decline of America?

[Fat]

There is a lot of discussion going on today about why the decline of America. People discussing the issue like to point fingers and make accusations Many blame the education system some blame corruption in politics. But I think the blame lies elsewhere. It is my believe that the decline of America is due to America turning away from our Lord, as seen in the fall of its moral character.

This all comes down of course to the church and the church which is made up of individuals. We have to point the finger at us, the way we live our lives and what we allow to go on around us, and what we allow to happen to our families. This includes not participating in the education of our children by not holding up our end of our government process, when it comes to electing and participating in the educational boards, electing officials that run our communities and participating in the conversations at community meetings. In some areas where the population is so liberal that you cannot get decent representation to the government we may have to look to other ways of educating our children, like homeschooling.

Changing America starts in the Christian home.

[johnl]

I was looking for a christian forum and found this one.

Yes, I think the main reason there's been a decline is because of turning away from the Lord.   It probably started after wwII with the violence both across the Atlantic and the Pacific, and then intensified after the vietnam war.   Matthew 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But through all the fiery trials, the Lord is able to keep the faithful believer.   Psalm 23:4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

John

[Fat]

I was looking for a christian forum and found this one.

Yes, I think the main reason there's been a decline is because of turning away from the Lord.   It probably started after wwII with the violence both across the Atlantic and the Pacific, and then intensified after the vietnam war.   Matthew 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But through all the fiery trials, the Lord is able to keep the faithful believer.   Psalm 23:4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

John

Hi John,

There always seems to be a drawing closer to God during a war and a decline after the danger has passed. Hows that saying go,'there are no atheist in a foxhole.'

Yes the faithful shall remain faithful no matter the trials.

John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish ; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all ; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

[Proa42]

I have what many might consider an unusual hobby. I do some historical reenacting. I focus on the period from the French and Indian War, through the early 19th Century -- Pre  "War of 1812". Originally got into it for the camping and shooting flintlocks, but gradually got interested in the real historical elements of it. I am no historical scholar, but because of this hobby of mine I read some. Over the past decade and a half that I've been living part-time among the Colonials I have come to the conclusion that, despite all modern claims to the contrary, the United States of America should never be considered a "Christian" country.

The Pilgrims were Christian. Their intention was to come here to worship and live as they believe God meant them to live. The colonies that were established later were economic enterprises populated by Christian folk, predominantly WASPs. (No slur intended). Colonies grew and things got complicated. We became prosperous.

The colonials were, for the most part, English subjects.

Then in 1773 things began to get ugly. The colonies were not being treated as they felt they should be treated. And, before long there was a movement afoot to sever ties with England - to rebel.

There were those colonials who did not believe that rebellion was the answer, but patience and longsuffering was the answer. Even in England, citizens recognized the unjust way that the colonies were being treated. Members of Parliament debated giving the colonies seats and full representation. There were even popular protest songs against this unfair treatment of English subjects.

As the relations declined, the cries for just treatment began to drown out the voices of Christian reason. Politics became a wedge to split the "Church" community. You were either patriot rebel or Tory loyalist. And once the line was crossed, and the rebellion had begun, no right-thinking Christian could ever claim that the nation which was to be born would be a Christian nation.

And that is where the seed of Americas decline lies, at it's roots. For, if the root is holy then the fruit is Holy, but if the root is bad, then the fruit is bad.

The colonists rebelled against their King. For the secular citizens and Cultural Christians there is no need of discussion, for they have no part in the Kingdom. But, for those who claim fellowship with The Christ, there are grave implications. They have ignored the admonishments of God to be subject to the powers that be. They rebelled not against an earthly King, but against the Word of God.

All the rationalizations, not withstanding, it was rebellion against God. The so-called "oppressions" and mistreatments used to justify the rebellion in the popular press grew out of the lawlessness of the colonists.  (Few if any of the alleged woes would have approached the severity of every-day life, in the time The Christ walked His earth)

It was a bad war for any believer to be associated with -- If were are to believe the Word:  "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:"

Now the rebellion's success has no bearing on the right or wrong of it. For even though God, in His foreknowledge, knew this would happen. And, as with all things, we had choices to make and made them. Many Americans though Tori, were forced to leave their homes and were banished, and many were followers of The Christ whose crime was walking according to Romans 13.

What's causing Americas decline? The same thing that causes all nations to decline, they are Nations of Man.

There is only One Nation Under God, and when it is born, it will last a thousand years.

[Fat]

Buck-skinner myself, flint and steel, T P's and bear stew. Shoot a full stock Hawken 54 cal.

The same thing that causes all nations to decline, they are Nations of Man.

It's true that even God's nation of Israel turned from Him many times. Remember they wanted a King to lead them 

[earthlytabernacle]

In my uneducated opinion I agree with the above statements.  A Russian writer named Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a child during the Communist Revolutions which swept across Russia claiming some 60 million lives through poverty-stricken starvation under a god-less regime.  In one of his more famous writings “The Templeton Address” he is quoted concerning the drastic change in his country, “More than half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.”  He further identifies the western world’s current moral & economic status with, “And if I were called upon to identify briefly the principal trait of the entire twentieth century, here too, I would be unable to find anything more precise and pithy than to repeat once again: Men have forgotten God.”

     I also agree that there was a definite split of loyalties regarding the motives of the peoples coming over to the early Americas.  The Puritan/Pilgrims were seeking “Religious” freedoms, but that seems as far as the loyalty to the Christian God extended.  Although most of the men involved of the signing of the Declaration of Independence were practicing Free Masons, a great number of Christian “right-wing” & constitutional   libertarians are wrongly convinced about the intentions of the so called “Christian Founding Fathers.”  It seems entirely possible that the reasons for the freedoms given within our Constitution support an occult agenda just as well as any other religious establishment.

     Without writing too much to the point of annoyance in the reader, I will quickly point out: -The Untied States was politically founded by Free Masons using Christianity as a popular lure for a predominantly Christian populace. –Masons swear allegiance to their “craft” before their country. –The Statue of “Liberty” is not a symbol of liberty, but rather an occult symbol of Luciferian Illumination gifted to the U.S. as a shrine to America’s origin (thanks Ben Franklin). –The symbols surrounding the U.S. Capital have their origins in ancient Egypt & Babylon. –The establishment by the presiding minds of that time was to bring about a “New Order of the Ages” through the creation of a world Super-State. –This “dark vision” of the future U.S. controlled by money & power was recognized by many presidents:

     George Washington: 1798 Acknowledged that Illuminati activity had come to the USA: “It is not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am.”       
     Woodrow Wilson: 1916 “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men… No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
     Franklin D. Roosevelt: “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."
     10 days after this famous address concerning a “world wide conspiracy” with its seat in the U.S., John F. Kennedy was assassinated: “The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy…”
     11 years to the day of the terrorist attacks in Ney York; George Herbert Walker Bush: September 11, 1990: “Out of these troubled times, our objective—a new world order—can emerge. Today, that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we have known.”

     I don’t know if this country was ever a Christian Nation I suspect not; and it certainly is not now!  The signs surrounding the secret destiny of America seem instead to point toward a plan on the bringing about of the “man of sin” incarnate.

[earthlytabernacle]

     By creating religious support behind any Presidential or political candidate, the dangerous stage is being set for the ushering in of Global Government.  To quote Author Thomas Horn in his (Amazing!) book "Apollyon Rising" he says, "Combining religious faith with politics as a legislative system of governance harkens the formula on which the "Antichrist" may come to power."

     We are called to remain faithful to all of God's puppet governments until the Holy One's return to invade & overthrow all opposing government at His coming.

[Fat]

     By creating religious support behind any Presidential or political candidate, the dangerous stage is being set for the ushering in of Global Government.  To quote Author Thomas Horn in his (Amazing!) book "Apollyon Rising" he says, "Combining religious faith with politics as a legislative system of governance harkens the formula on which the "Antichrist" may come to power."

     We are called to remain faithful to all of God's puppet governments until the Holy One's return to invade & overthrow all opposing government at His coming.

When you say, 'creating religious support' referring to an organized church campaign or unorganized support, such as individual prayer?

Our form of government gives us the responsibility to choose our own leadership and in doing so govern ourselves. Paul tells us in Romans 13:1 that God picks our leaders and we should be loyal to them. So what role does a member of the body of Christ play in such a government? Have we not been given a responsibility to attempt to choose a governing body that will support the moral and biblical goals given to us by our Father?
This country has kill over 50 million of its own children and calls it the sexual revolution. This is been done because we, the voters, have allowed it to happen, not because we are under some sort of dictatorship or oppressive government. We have turned away from the face of our Lord and looked to our own flesh. Is it not the responsibility of all the members of the body of Christ who live in this form of government to use whatever legal means afforded to them to stop this assault on our God?

The authority was given to us.

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

[Zant Law]

When you say, 'creating religious support' referring to an organized church campaign or unorganized support, such as individual prayer?

Our form of government gives us the responsibility to choose our own leadership and in doing so govern ourselves. Paul tells us in Romans 13:1 that God picks our leaders and we should be loyal to them. So what role does a member of the body of Christ play in such a government? Have we not been given a responsibility to attempt to choose a governing body that will support the moral and biblical goals given to us by our Father?
This country has kill over 50 million of its own children and calls it the sexual revolution. This is been done because we, the voters, have allowed it to happen, not because we are under some sort of dictatorship or oppressive government. We have turned away from the face of our Lord and looked to our own flesh. Is it not the responsibility of all the members of the body of Christ who live in this form of government to use whatever legal means afforded to them to stop this assault on our God?

The authority was given to us.

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Part of the problem is that the Church has sanction the use of the government to provide for those in the Church that are in need. This is not biblical and gives glory to Man and not Christ. The Catholic church has tied it's self to government assistance and it is now paying the price for doing it. The first place the needy should come for help is the Church and not Obama.

[Zant Law]

To make my point-

The American public's dependence on the federal government shot up 23% in just two years under President Obama, with 67 million now relying on some federal program, according to a newly released study by the Heritage Foundation.

The conservative think tank's annual Index of Dependence on Government tracks money spent on housing, health, welfare, education subsidies and other federal programs that were "traditionally provided to needy people by local organizations and families."

http://news.investors.com/Article/600452/201202080802/government-dependence-jumps-under-president-obama.htm

We have turn from God to MAN for our needs.

[Proa42]

From time-to-time, Paul took advantage of his Roman Citizenship. And finally when he was unable to provide for himself, he accepted the gifts of the churches.

Yes, it is handy to get help when you need it. And when you really need help, you seldom consider the consequences of reliance on public assistance. I know, I've been there. But, it is no way of life.

Oh yeah. Another neat thing about historical reenacting: You learn how to make fire without matches, make bread on a plank, eat rodents, how to bathe from a basin, live without any modern accoutrement, and you learn that when everybody smells bad, nobody smells bad.

(1816 Springfield .69 caliber musket, and Kentucky .45 flinters all)

I love the smell of black-powder in the morning.   

[earthlytabernacle]

When you say, 'creating religious support' referring to an organized church campaign or unorganized support, such as individual prayer?

Our form of government gives us the responsibility to choose our own leadership and in doing so govern ourselves. Paul tells us in Romans 13:1 that God picks our leaders and we should be loyal to them. So what role does a member of the body of Christ play in such a government? Have we not been given a responsibility to attempt to choose a governing body that will support the moral and biblical goals given to us by our Father?
This country has kill over 50 million of its own children and calls it the sexual revolution. This is been done because we, the voters, have allowed it to happen, not because we are under some sort of dictatorship or oppressive government. We have turned away from the face of our Lord and looked to our own flesh. Is it not the responsibility of all the members of the body of Christ who live in this form of government to use whatever legal means afforded to them to stop this assault on our God?

The authority was given to us.

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

[earthlytabernacle]

     One of the greatest examples of two sides of the same coin being played against politically motivated Christians is in the 2004 elections between John Kerry, and President George W. Bush.  Although one of the men takes one side republican and the other democrat, their voting records were nearly identical.  They are direct blood-relatives, first cousins.  They both graduated from Yale U. and were members of the Skull and Bones Society.  The press overlooks these things, and the general public does not see these organizations with any validity.  It is good to vote, and as Americans-maybe it is wise to exercise this privilege.  But if we vote pro-life, or against homosexual marriage, and the laws supporting them are passed anyway, we cannot say we lost or failed. “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be”; REV 22:11-12. 

     The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, not legal statutes.  I don’t know if voting will affect the minds of those who want to kill the unborn, or live in perverted relationships; it may make it illegal but laws only keep honest people honest. 
     Jesus was born under strict Roman rule.  He didn’t even really bother with anything political concerning them.  I am not disconnected from society by any way.  But Jesus gave us our job: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” MARK 16:15.
     Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. MATT 28:19-20.

     I believe a moral decline is happening in the United States because of a lack of knowledge (of the fear of the Lord).  Vote and be active in the government I suppose.  But Judgment will come on a Nation because of its refusal to repent.  Creating laws which mirror godly ethics or honorable philosophies, is merely straitening a man’s tie and coming his hair before his descent into Hell.  Without the God’s convicting Spirit transforming fallen hearts- by the establishment of godly morals through the legislative process, may only be producing well-polished turds.

     Pray without out ceasing!  Pray for those in the faith, and in Government! That is reasonable, and far more effective than voting- or protesting.         

[Fat]

From time-to-time, Paul took advantage of his Roman Citizenship. And finally when he was unable to provide for himself, he accepted the gifts of the churches.

Yes, it is handy to get help when you need it. And when you really need help, you seldom consider the consequences of reliance on public assistance. I know, I've been there. But, it is no way of life.

Oh yeah. Another neat thing about historical reenacting: You learn how to make fire without matches, make bread on a plank, eat rodents, how to bathe from a basin, live without any modern accoutrement, and you learn that when everybody smells bad, nobody smells bad.

(1816 Springfield .69 caliber musket, and Kentucky .45 flinters all)

I love the smell of black-powder in the morning.   

I have one flintlock for matches that require it but my choice is cap and ball. When it comes to hunting my Hawken does my talken. Use to go to 4 or 5 rendezvous a year but the years have slowed me down.

In don't recall Paul ever taking handouts from the Romans, only using his legal rights as a citizen of Rome.

Hey I get $83 a month from social security, a system that I was forced to join and will never be paid back for the money they took from me by force. We have a member in my family that is unemployed and our family takes care of her without the need for the government tit. This is the way it is done, it is our responsibility to care for her not Yours. If we could not take care of her I would expect the church to assist us.

[Proa42]

When I said Paul took advantage of his citizenship, I meant he used it, as when he embarrassed the magistrates who beat him - a Roman citizen, and, again when he appealed to Rome.

As I recall, Paul avoided taking money from the churches so that he could not be accused of making his living off them. It was when he was in need of it that he accepted unsolicited gifts.

Years ago, I got by on a few bucks a day. But then, I got married. That got me off the beach and to work, and it's been down hill ever since. I've become that guy I used joke about - Steady-Eddy. I like to think when it really goes south I'll be able to adapt.  The leverage the enemy will have is with family. Most guys think they'd resist unto death. But, when family is threatened that will be the test. I'm sort of glad I'm older now, because I have a chance my wick will burn out before I have to make those tough choices.

Sure, I can make powder, and live under the stars, but it isn't just about me.