ABORTION

[biblebuf]

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What does God say about life in the womb?


KEY BIBLE VERSE: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5 )

Persons have worth even before they are born. God knew you, as he knew Jeremiah, long before you were born or even conceived. He knew you, thought about you, and planned for you. When you feel discouraged or inadequate, remember that God has always thought of you as valuable and has had a purpose in mind for you.


KEY BIBLE VERSE: For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. (Psalm 139:13-14 )

God is at work in a person’s life even while in the womb. God’s character goes into the creation of every person. When you feel worthless or even begin to hate yourself, remember that God’s Spirit is ready and willing to work within you. God thinks of you constantly (Psalm 139:1-4 ). We should have as much respect for ourselves as our Maker has for us.
What is behind the practice of abortion today?

KEY BIBLE VERSE: Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the Lord. (2 Chronicles 28:1)

Abortion is a sin against God. Imagine the monstrous evil of a religion that offers young children as sacrifices. God allowed Judah to suffer heavy casualties in response to Ahaz’s evil practices. Even today the practice hasn’t abated. The sacrifice of children to the harsh gods of convenience, economy, and whim continues in sterile medical facilities in numbers that would astound even the wicked Ahaz. If we are to allow children to come to Christ (Matthew 19:14 ), we must first allow them to come into the world.


From Handbook of Bible Application

[Proa42]

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So,of whom was Jeremiah writing as he was inspired?

Folks like to generalize passages and take them out of context.

We can follow your logic and apply such generalizations to Ted Bundy, Saddam, the Ayatollahs, Hitler, and other such lovely characters of history.

Even though God formed Jeremiah in the womb, it does not make any argument one way or the other with respect to abortion. It does not set forth when life began.

However, we can consider another time when God formed a man. It was in the Garden - set eastward in Eden. But, it was not until God breathed into him the breath of life that Adam became a living soul.

Establish relevance to the subject, then you can run with it.

[biblebuf]

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So,of whom was Jeremiah writing as he was inspired?

Folks like to generalize passages and take them out of context.

We can follow your logic and apply such generalizations to Ted Bundy, Saddam, the Ayatollahs, Hitler, and other such lovely characters of history.

Even though God formed Jeremiah in the womb, it does not make any argument one way or the other with respect to abortion. It does not set forth when life began.

However, we can consider another time when God formed a man. It was in the Garden - set eastward in Eden. But, it was not until God breathed into him the breath of life that Adam became a living soul.

Establish relevance to the subject, then you can run with it.

I think the author is making an excellent point with God's quote to Jeremiah.
Note that God said that Knew Jeremiah even before he was for formed in the womb. Even before Jeremiah was conceived God had a relationship with him.

You say that things should be made relevant to the discussion, then you must be saying that Adam could have been aborted? Could the dust be taken from God's hand and have been cast into a waste can?

[Fat]

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So,of whom was Jeremiah writing as he was inspired?

Folks like to generalize passages and take them out of context.

We can follow your logic and apply such generalizations to Ted Bundy, Saddam, the Ayatollahs, Hitler, and other such lovely characters of history.

Even though God formed Jeremiah in the womb, it does not make any argument one way or the other with respect to abortion. It does not set forth when life began.

However, we can consider another time when God formed a man. It was in the Garden - set eastward in Eden. But, it was not until God breathed into him the breath of life that Adam became a living soul.

Establish relevance to the subject, then you can run with it.

Hello,

So when does life begin?

It is the question is it not, because if you take an innocent life it is murder in God's eyes.

I would hate to stand infront of God and tell Him that I dicided that the fetus was nothing but a mass of dead flesh when God was in the prosses of forming it into His own likeness.

[Proa42]

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Knowing someone is not, as you put it, having a relationship with someone.

(And where did all this "relationship" stuff come from?)

I'm sure there are a lot of things we won't want to stand before God to explain. Nevertheless, it is irrelevant to the discussion.  How we feel matters little before the truth.

This is a "religious" topic obviously.

Quote of the day:

"Religion is what man does to The Truth."

[biblebuf]

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Knowing someone is not, as you put it, having a relationship with someone.

(And where did all this "relationship" stuff come from?)

Are you asking if God can have a relationship with the unborn? He elects to love by His sovereign right even before birth.

Rom 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

So now please answer my question, it is after all to the relevance of your reference to Adam.

[Fat]

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Knowing someone is not, as you put it, having a relationship with someone.

(And where did all this "relationship" stuff come from?)

I'm sure there are a lot of things we won't want to stand before God to explain. Nevertheless, it is irrelevant to the discussion.  How we feel matters little before the truth.

This is a "religious" topic obviously.

Quote of the day:

"Religion is what man does to The Truth."

When life begins determines when it is possable to murder it. Murder cannot be committed on something that is not alive. It is very relevant because it is a moral question.

Now is someone alive when God has began His work in the womb or not?

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

[Proa42]

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With respect Adam, it is written:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When the breath of life entered Adam, he became a living soul. That's when his life began. (His life a man, human, person)

[Fat]

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With respect Adam, it is written:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When the breath of life entered Adam, he became a living soul. That's when his life began. (His life a man, human, person)

Not relivent Proa42, Adam was not born by the womb and not from a mother who was already live and breathing.

Too bad you don't want to apply yourself. This is not about Adam who was not born of man.

It's about knowing the Word.

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

[Proa42]

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The answer with was with respect to Adam. Done

Now, to answer the life-in-the-womb question.

If aborting a fetus were the same a killing a person, then would the punishment be the same -- Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.
When a person kills a person, it is life for life. Not so for still born caused by a violent act.

Now it is in the BOOK, but I would not expect most of the site users to go looking for it, so I'll just say -- It is in there.

Life is walking in Truth, and Religion is what man does to Truth.

[Fat]

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The answer with was with respect to Adam. Done

Now, to answer the life-in-the-womb question.

If aborting a fetus were the same a killing a person, then would the punishment be the same -- Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.
When a person kills a person, it is life for life. Not so for still born caused by a violent act.

Now it is in the BOOK, but I would not expect most of the site users to go looking for it, so I'll just say -- It is in there.

Life is walking in Truth, and Religion is what man does to Truth.

If you're going to bring in Exodus 21 into this discussion, you're going to have to redefine murder as an accidental death to make your point. Good luck.

Why is the same word is used for the child before and after birth Brephos, that is, "infant," is used in Luke 1:41 and Luke 18:15.

[Bob]

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Today being the 39th anniversary of the Supreme Court legalizing abortion in America, I thought I would jump in here and say something.

I like to start off with a few facts. In the past 39 years America has had 52 million abortions. If the abortions went on seven days a week every week that is over 3600 abortions a day. This is not about rape or incest or the life of the mother. If you like to know what abortions are about listen to those who are pro-abortion. They even call this the right of free choice, or woman's control over their own body.

I would expect that all Christians would be alerted to what the purpose of abortion is in listening to these people. What they are saying is they do not want to be responsible for the consequences of the actions that follow the works of the flesh. I cannot follow the logic of any Christian that believes that his body belongs to himself and not God. But apparently reading some of the posts on this board and others, many self acclaimed Christians believe that their bodies do belong to themselves and not God.

On judgment day I just wonder if these people find out that these abortions they've committed or participated in were actually sacrifices to Satan, what a horrible discovery that would be.

Bob Dude

[Proa42]

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Most of the discussion regarding where life begins is framed within the Old Testament.  And, within that context we also find all the other teachings of God, which are relevant. Therefore we should also recognize that within the context of the "Law", this subject should never become an issue. Not because there were no clinics, nor because  they were so enlightened, but because both the woman and fetus would be aborted - by law - along with the father.

Deut. 22

", , , , the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

 (22)   
If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

 (23)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

No questions as to whether she is pregnant, here. You may have your feelings about this, but it is very clear that the possibility of a terminated pregnancy was/is a reality.

No way to know if a woman was pregnant for quite a while, back then.

Abortion was required when chastity failed.

[biblebuf]

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Most of the discussion regarding where life begins is framed within the Old Testament.  And, within that context we also find all the other teachings of God, which are relevant. Therefore we should also recognize that within the context of the "Law", this subject should never become an issue. Not because there were no clinics, nor because  they were so enlightened, but because both the woman and fetus would be aborted - by law - along with the father.

Deut. 22

", , , , the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

 (22)   
If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

 (23)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

No questions as to whether she is pregnant, here. You may have your feelings about this, but it is very clear that the possibility of a terminated pregnancy was/is a reality.

No way to know if a woman was pregnant for quite a while, back then.

Abortion was required when chastity failed.

First your text is not relevant to abortion. If abortion would have been available would it make sense to first abort the child and then stone the mother?

Second at what point was the mother given the choice to kill the child? It was not her choice!

No, your scriptures shows us that God makes the decision who dies and who lives. REMEMBER THE FLOOD?

Bob was right in his post, abortion is about the woman wanting to choose not to take responsibility for her actions of the flesh.

Abortion was required when chastity failed.

And that is what the great righteous man takes from these verses. Sad.

[Proa42]

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The original question was, "What does God say about life in the womb?" I think this fits within the pale.

You do introduce the true issue here.

It is about responsibility. Abortion is the symptom.

Why is the church involved in cleaning up after, instead of focusing on prevention. As for those outside the body, "What have we to do with those who are without?"

For "them" it is tantamount to offering up their children to Molech. However, it is "self" instead of a wooden idol. ( This is a condition found in the religious community as well -- evidenced by the pervasiveness of first-person lyrics in "worship" songs - I, me, we.)

Within the body, it is a problem of holiness, or more correctly, the lack of holiness. The focus should be on the religious communities tolerance of adultery and fornication within the body of Christ.


But, that is another discussion.