Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
God's argument against replacement theology
petrobb:
--- Quote from: Fat on November 18, 2015, 09:24:26 am ---Rom 11
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."
20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
--- End quote ---
Soooo? Yes members of the outward church who are seen as a part of Israel can cease to be so if they fall into unbelief. Like unbelieving Jew they too will then no longer be Israel. The true Israel is made up of all who believe in Israel's Messiah.
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: petrobb on November 18, 2015, 11:47:44 am ---Soooo? Yes members of the outward church who are seen as a part of Israel can cease to be so if they fall into unbelief. Like unbelieving Jew they too will then no longer be Israel. The true Israel is made up of all who believe in Israel's Messiah.
--- End quote ---
I take it you don't believe in the preservation of the Saints? Can you lose your salvation once you have it? Is that biblical?
ZLaw
petrobb:
--- Quote from: Zant Law on November 18, 2015, 12:19:08 pm --- I take it you don't believe in the preservation of the Saints? Can you lose your salvation once you have it? Is that biblical?
ZLaw
--- End quote ---
If you will note I said the OUTWARD church. In the outward church there are both true believers and formal believers. The olive tree of Israel consisted of all who believe in the Messiah, whether true believers or formal believers. Thus the formal believers can be cast off if they become unbelievers.
The question of the preservation of the saints is therefore irrelevant. Formal believers are not saints. The devils are also formal believers as James pointed out compare also John 2.23-25.
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: petrobb on November 19, 2015, 04:57:48 am ---If you will note I said the OUTWARD church. In the outward church there are both true believers and formal believers. The olive tree of Israel consisted of all who believe in the Messiah, whether true believers or formal believers. Thus the formal believers can be cast off if they become unbelievers.
The question of the preservation of the saints is therefore irrelevant. Formal believers are not saints. The devils are also formal believers as James pointed out compare also John 2.23-25.
--- End quote ---
So now you have unbelievers graphed onto the root, drawing from the promise of Abraham. My bible holds no contradiction .
ZLaw
petrobb:
--- Quote from: Zant Law on November 19, 2015, 05:32:31 am ---So now you have unbelievers graphed onto the root, drawing from the promise of Abraham. My bible holds no contradiction .
ZLaw
--- End quote ---
So you do not think that Israel prior the coming of Jesus Christ was attached to the root? Well at least you are admitting that they were NOT Israel. When Messiah came the unbeliever were cut off (John 15.1-6). Gentiles were grafted in. But again those who produced no fruit were cut off. Pity you Bible excludes John 15 and Romans 11. I would buy a new one if I were you :)
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