Is supersessionism / replacement theology Biblical?

[Hal]

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I would like you to answers the questions I asked you....all of them...

Here are your questions:

Hal....I am not asking for a commentary on it...I am asking this....what does it mean the sun and moon will not give their light, the stars will fall from heaven???

Are these literal events, when do they occur? or what ideas do you have on this???

If you would take the time to read Joel 3 you would have the answers to the questions you put to me from the earlier chapter 2.

I'll shorten it for you:
Joel 3:1. "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2. I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land………20. But Judah will be inhabited forever And Jerusalem for all generations.
21. And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion.


And yes this will be a literal event, "in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem." The end of the tribulation and the beginning the millennium, coincides with the second coming, seven years after the rapture.

Do you believe the bible to be true???

[Iconoclast]

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Hal

You did not answer my questions at all....I asked the questions for a reason. Comment on the sun, moon, and stars....

[Hal]

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Hal

You did not answer my questions at all....

The Bible answers your question.
I’m done with you my friend, have a good day and drive safely.

Peace
Hal

[Iconoclast]

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Hal

I'll shorten it for you:

Thanks, but that was not necessary....

And yes this will be a literal event, "in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.

I had asked you about the stars falling from Heaven and you say it is going to be a literal event?

" The end of the tribulation and the beginning the millennium, coincides with the second coming, seven years after the rapture.

This passage does not mention any of those things does it? You have imported them here.

Do you believe the bible to be true???

The bible is indeed true. You theories do not seem to have truth to them however. You make bold assertions, but when questioned you withdraw like a turtle into a shell. No problem, I understand.  Your reluctance to respond betrays an inability to have any meaningful discussion on the texts.
If anyone questions you you respond by asking -do you believe the bible?

The Bible answers your question.

I know it does. I was asking you to answer however so I guess it is good I did not hold my breath

I’m done with you my friend, have a good day and drive safely.

Okay...well at least you notified me that you cannot respond  to questions in a timely fashion...

And I was quoting Joel 3. You attack on the Scriptures is to leave out the people of Israel.

We did not get there yet, but a person would have to desire to search out truth and have respect enough for the scriptures as the word of God to actually work through it.

I can piece mill verses together that will tell the story of the three bears.

Then by all means stick to what you are good at. I am more than certain that you have no idea what the historic positions of the church have been....You think you do, but You REALLY do not.

If you are truly interested in a discussion why don’t you be upfront on your beliefs, just lay it out for us.

I was trying to ,however it seems like you are looking for bumper sticker theology rather than searching things out. Many do nowadays. It is not a crime , but it is unfortunate.

Like I said, not even close. You are running from the truth.

and yet...when I begin to ask you 3-4 questions you say this;

I’m done with you my friend, have a good day and drive safely ....okay.you be safe also...Not sure why you posted to begin with, if this was the intended outcome.

[Iconoclast]

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Zant Law

So you believe that all promises made to the Jews in the OT have been fulfilled or that they will be fulfilled through Christ?

Joel 3 16 The LORD roars from Zion And utters His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth tremble. But the LORD is a refuge for His people And a stronghold to the sons of Israel. 17 Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain. So Jerusalem will be holy, And strangers will pass through it no more.
18 And in that day The mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water ; And a spring will go out from the house of the LORD To water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt will become a waste, And Edom will become a desolate wilderness, Because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood. 20 But Judah will be inhabited forever And Jerusalem for all generations. 21 And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion.

Hello ZL,

Which Zion and Jerusalem is this looking forward to?

[Zant Law]

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Zant Law
Hello ZL,

Which Zion and Jerusalem is this looking forward to?

The Millennium Jerusalem.

ZLaw

[Iconoclast]

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The Millennium Jerusalem.

ZLaw

Paul offered this;
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

King James Version (KJV)

It speaks of a Jerusalem on earth that was in bondage, the a Jerusalem which is above...
So again...which Jerusalem is in view?

the writer of Hebrews said it this way;
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

[Zant Law]

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25. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26. But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
27. For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
28. And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him [who was born] according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30. But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
31. So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

From  Genesis 21


Genesis 21:
12. But God said to Abraham, "Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named.


ZLaw

[Iconoclast]

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From  Genesis 21


Genesis 21:
12. But God said to Abraham, "Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named.


ZLaw

Yes...and the quote in gal 4 is taken from isa 54...which speaks of Gentile inclusion in the Covenant promises;
Isaiah 54 King James Version (KJV)
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6 For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.

9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Lengthen the cords, strengthen the stakes...The Great Commission.

[Zant Law]

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It tells us the Jerusalem is the mother of us (believers) all.

ZLaw
30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

[Iconoclast]

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It tells us the Jerusalem is the mother of us (believers) all.

ZLaw
30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

Yes....The Jerusalem which is above is free{in Christ}
Jesus is reigning from the heavenly Zion and jerusalem...Hebrews 12 says He speaks ...from Heaven-
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

[Zant Law]

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Yes....The Jerusalem which is above is free{in Christ}
Jesus is reigning from the heavenly Zion and jerusalem...Hebrews 12 says He speaks ...from Heaven-
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

We have established that the kingdom is not here on earth, and it can never be moved to here on earth, is that correct? Which means the thousand year reign of Christ will not occur here on earth, is that correct? This also means that the throne of David is not here on this earth and not referring to the city of Jerusalem, is that correct?

You know I really find it hard to believe that you do not understand the analogy of the bondwoman and the free woman. Do you understand being bound to the law, and as Paul preached being free from the law? Reading some of your post I almost believe that this is some kind of big put-on just for the purpose of harassment. I am free from the Law (my now kingdom), are you?


Here are a few pertinent versus I believe it is appropriate for this discussion.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:6
I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—


2 Corinthians 11:4
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.


ZLaw

[Iconoclast]

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We have established that the kingdom is not here on earth, and it can never be moved to here on earth, is that correct? Which means the thousand year reign of Christ will not occur here on earth, is that correct? This also means that the throne of David is not here on this earth and not referring to the city of Jerusalem, is that correct?

You know I really find it hard to believe that you do not understand the analogy of the bondwoman and the free woman. Do you understand being bound to the law, and as Paul preached being free from the law? Reading some of your post I almost believe that this is some kind of big put-on just for the purpose of harassment. I am free from the Law (my now kingdom), are you?


Here are a few pertinent versus I believe it is appropriate for this discussion.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:6
I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—


2 Corinthians 11:4
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.


ZLaw

Thanks for your response. It looks like you are not understanding what was offered however.
Your conclusions are not in line with what is being posted.
I will clarify a later on and try and stay on the topic.

[Zant Law]

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Thanks for your response. It looks like you are not understanding what was offered however.
Your conclusions are not in line with what is being posted.
I will clarify a later on and try and stay on the topic.

I don’t go by the conclusions made by church denominations on the meaning of scriptures. This is why we have so many denominations.

Please don’t respond, we will not agree..

ZLsw

[Iconoclast]

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I am not sure how you thought to include verses speaking of another gospel, and another Jesus, how you thought they fit into this discussion?
What other gospel do you think there is being spoken of?
Who mentioned another gospel at all?