Bible Talk > Apologetics
The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
JB Horn:
We have two instances in the Bible where believers were not baptized by the Holy Spirit and therefore their belief was invalid. In acts 8:9-25, we read the story of Simon the magician. The Bible tells us Simon did believe however he had not been baptized by the Holy Spirit and was not truly saved. Simon's belief was so strong that he actually fooled Philip. The other story was also from acts 19:1-7, where some disciples believed and experience the baptism of John the Baptist however they had never heard of the Holy Ghost. Now their are baptism of the Holy Ghost came with the laying on of hands from Paul, unlike those that received the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.
Both John the Baptist and Jesus made the promise of baptism of the Holy Ghost, but it is obvious that some can believe and still not receive the promise of that baptism. And if one does not receive that baptism is belief is not valid. At first look of this it appears confusing but when you consider that Satan himself believes as do all the fallen Angels by his side, it begins to make more sense.
Some of you are probably asking right now how can one know if he has received the Holy Spirit if someone that believes can be without the Holy Spirit.
If you look at the two instances where those that were described as believers were without the Spirit you see that they were either not aware of the existence of the Holy Ghost, or did not believe in the existence of the Holy Ghost. This is in-line with what both Jesus and Paul passed down to us:(John 14:17 ; Rom. 8:14) So I think this is really a moot question or an unneeded concern to those who believe in the Trinity and baptism in the name of the Father the Son and Holy Ghost.
Ask yourself this question would Christ promise something to those who believe in him and love him and seek his guidance and then not deliver on that promise?
JB
Proa42:
During your discourse, you make a point that that there were two modes, if you will, of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit -- As at Pentecost and by the "Laying on of Hands." You then leave off to go onto a discussion of false and true faith/belief, and just touch lightly on the how of Spirit Baptism.
If one were to accept your discussion of mode as complete, we then must conclude that someone in the Apostolic succession is required to validate our faith and complete our salvation/sealing by "The Laying on of Hands." (This plays well for the Apostolic Churches as they claim to be in succession ).
Have you left us with an incomplete understanding of mode?
How does a non-apostolic believer receive the "Baptism"?
Do you see a difference, as some claim, between receiving the Spirit and being Baptized by the Spirit?
JB Horn:
Hello Proa
We have at least two times in Acts that baptism by (with) the Holy Ghost was given without the laying on of hands. It's not necessary for man to be involved in you receiving His gifts.
JB
Proa42:
The two non-hands-on events were "pentacostal style" with the attendant signs and stuff.
So which is the model we are to expect? Is there a third mode of transmittal?
JB Horn:
John told us that Christ would do the baptising with with the Holy Spirit.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
So we know who the He is (Christ) all we have to do is figure out who the you is.
JB
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version