The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit

[bibledan]

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Ok first I am not questioning anyones beliefs because I am totally confused on this subject.

Acts 5
 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.

HERE he does something to be blasphemy to HOLY GHOST and dies and wife does same same results.

So if you lose GOST die?  If you commit Blasphemy you Die maybe why unforgiven.

 
 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

HERE its HOLY SPIRIT given to those who obey him. NOT just being BAPTIZED but obey which includes Baptism.



 Acts 10

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48

HERE they received the HOLY SPIRIT before BAPTISM.  So is HOLY SPIRIT sign of Baptism. Can baptism be requirement to get the HOLY SPIRIT?




REVELATION 20
 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to
his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

HERE I POST due to discussion of burning for eternity. Bible says burn until second death. This is one way I have been told is for eternity as second death NOT possible, but HERE is second DEATH.

[Fat]

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Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

There are two kinds of baptism one being the water and one being of the Holy Spirit. Baptism of water is done by man, baptism of the Holy Spirit is done by God. John 1:33



The second death is not possible for the saved, that is why Christ was crucified. Paul used to say that he was dead in Christ, meaning that Christ had died for him in his place. Paul was speaking about the second death (HELL).

[JB Horn]

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If you commit Blasphemy you Die maybe why unforgiven.

Remember that the Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead, or the Trinity. To blasphemy the Holy Ghost is to turn your back on God. How can that be forgiven? To blasphemy the Holy Ghost is to reject salvation and turn to Satan.

JB

[bibledan]

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The second death is not possible for the saved, that is why Christ was crucified. Paul used to say that he was dead in Christ, meaning that Christ had died for him in his place. Paul was speaking about the second death
(HELL).
[/quote]

 
Why would "SAVED" be in hell?  If no saved in hell then wouldn't the unsaved be able to burn until second death?

[Fat]

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Hell is the second death and it is eternal.

[bibledan]

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Hell is the second death and it is eternal.

Ok sorry   I just wanted to know why it says this is second death.

[VCO]

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May I try to simplify the answers to the confusion. 

I will start with Christ.  He provided Victory over death (the Second Death that is), for all Believers.  Yes, the second death is enternal and goes on and on.  I is not like the mortal death, that we all face ONCE.  Think of Death as being Seperated from Life, and the light comes on.  Hell is eternal seperation from eternal Life, which is in the very presence of GOD.  And the only place that GOD is not, is Hell, or the Lake of Fire, whichever you prefer to call it.  We all deserve eternity in Hell, but because of HIS GRACE and MERCY, we will receive eternity in the presence of GOD instead.  NOT because of anything we have done, but purely because of what CHRIST DID ON THE CROSS.

As for Ananias and Sapphira, people frequently get confused about that historical story; because they ask the WRONG question:  "Why did God kill them?"  The RIGHT question, makes the story much easier to understand: "Why has God not killed us when we too have lied to HIM or broken a promise to HIM?"  It is an object lesson in HIS perfectly JUST nature, and HIS perfect GRACE and MERCY.  I do not see that they blasphemed the Holy Spirit, though.  Yes they promised to give every penny to the ministry, of whatever they got by selling that piece of property; but when they received more money than they expected, the conspired to keep some of it for themselves.  That is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  My understanding of what is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, is when one rejects that "Jesus is God in the flesh", the very information that the Holy Spirit uses to bring us to BELIEVE and Recieve Jesus Christ as Lord.  Thus, rejecting that information IS BLASHEMING THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.  And hopefully before you even think it, "What about those who never heard the name Jesus Christ mentioned?"

Romans 1:20 (HCSB)
20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Jesus is the Creator:

Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,

For one to look at nature and come to the conclusion, that nature is not a result of a miracle of GOD; is that not the same as the Pharasees that followed Jesus and came to conclusion that they did not believe Jesus was doing those miracles by the power of GOD?  In the same way, if one who has never heard the name Jesus, looks at nature and comes to the conclusion that there has to be a single Creator GOD that made all of this; is that not the same as believing in the Creator, whom whe know is Jesus?  Abraham believed GOD and it was counted unto him as righteousness.  THUS if the Native Americans before the white man got here, looked at Nature, the only Bible they had back then, and it had written on it the glory of GOD's power and attributes, and they came to the conclusion that there obviously is a Creator, and He is Thee Great Spirit; then I have to believe GOD counted that belief in HIM as righteousness.

[JB Horn]

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THUS if the Native Americans before the white man got here, looked at Nature, the only Bible they had back then, and it had written on it the glory of GOD's power and attributes, and they came to the conclusion that there obviously is a Creator, and He is Thee Great Spirit; then I have to believe GOD counted that belief in HIM as righteousness.

WOW there cowboy!!

Sun worshipers, bear worshipers, eagle worshipers? Crediting the creation to a false idol counted as righteousness?

Abraham believed (had faith) in the coming of a savior. After all isn't that what God promised him? Genesis 12:1-3

[Fat]

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John 14:6 NAS
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life ; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


I agree with JB and trust Christ to be telling the truth.

[biblebuf]

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Interesting the Mormons teach that those native American Indians were all Jews.

BB

[VCO]

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And the Mormons teach the God the Father was a man who became a god.

And the Mormons teach that the deified man called God the Father, came down and fooled around with Mary, impregnating her, and that is where Jesus comes from.

And the Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

And the Mormons teach that if you are a really good Mormon male, you to can become a god ruling over your own universe.

And the Mormons teach that the Council of the gods got together and decided to create this universe.

And Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both taught that "if you need to spill your brother's blood to save his immortal soul, then by all means spill it."  And in some of the stricter Mormon families, that practice still goes on.

And the Mormons teach that the Bible is full of contraditions.

And the Mormons teach that you can get baptized for the dead, bringing them to become Mormons after death.

And the Mormons teach that additional books can be added to the Bible and they too are to be considered Scripture.

And so on, and so on, and so on.  So how can it be interesting that they think the Native American Tribes were Jews?

[VCO]

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I did not say all Native American Tribes did I?  Re-read my post and you will see that I was talking about the mono-theistic tribes, that worshipped "Thee Great Spirit".

[VCO]

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Quote
John 14:6 NAS
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life ; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


I agree with JB and trust Christ to be telling the truth.

And if your RECOGNIZE HIM as the Creator, even though no one has ever told them His biblical name, they still are coming through Him.

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Colossians 1:16-20 (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (HCSB)
19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

[biblebuf]

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And so on, and so on, and so on.  So how can it be interesting that they think the Native American Tribes were Jews?

I did not say all Native American Tribes did I?  Re-read my post and you will see that I was talking about the mono-theistic tribes, that worshipped "Thee Great Spirit".

Did the American Indians believe in salvation or have any conception that there could be salvation? That is the faith that saved Abraham it was not the fact that he believed that a creator.

1. If they were Jews then your statement would have some validity to it.

2. I don't know of any tribes that worship the great spirit as you put it, without first assigning that great spirit an object or animal that could be seen by them.

3. I do know of some present-day man that believes that the earth is in fact God. Or that God is in all things.

4. You seem to be saying that the American Indians did not need Christ blood for their salvation. If all they had to believe was that there was a creator then the Jews did not need Christ either.

5. The Muslims have a very strong faith in the creator as do many other religions.

Fat nailed it with Jhn 14:6.

[biblebuf]

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And if your RECOGNIZE HIM as the Creator, even though no one has ever told them His biblical name, they still are coming through Him.

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Colossians 1:16-20 (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (HCSB)
19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. NAS

Can you be saved without acknowledging your sin against the creator?