The Chuch is not Israel, nor is Israel the Church

[Defacto]

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By Mal Couch…The church and Israel did not begin at the same time and are, therefore, not the same entity. The nation of Israel essentially began when God called Abraham and promised to make a great nation from him.The rest of the Old Testament records the growth, development and existence of that nation. The Church did not begin in the Old Testament and, therefore, it and Israel are distinct. The unique character of the Church supports the distinction. The church, unlike Israel, is declared to be a “mystery” (Eph. 3:1-12; Col. 1:26-27). In the New Testament a “mystery” is a truth that was not revealed previously in the Old Testament.

If the Church began at Pentecost, then it did not begin or exist in the Old Testament. It is worth noting that in Matthew 16:18 the Lord Jesus used the future tense: “I will build My Church.” He did not say, “I am building My church” or “I have been building My church.” The church was something still future in Christ’s ministry, which means that it was not in existence during His ministry or in the Old Testament. The apostles would not have understood what He meant by “His church” being built in the future, but the details about the church would be given to them later. In dealing with the matter of the discipline of an individual (18:17), Jesus told them to tell it to the church or assembly. The apostles would have understood that He was speaking of a Jewish assembly. The statement of 18:17 must be understood in the light of the previous statement (16:18) of the future building of “My church.

”Certain things had to be true before the church could come into existence. First, according to the Apostle Paul, the Church is the “body of Christ” (e.g. Col. 1:18, 24 and Eph. 2:16; 3:6; 5:23, 30). It is clear that the church (the body) could not exist and function without its Head, the Lord Jesus. Jesus did not assume that role until after He had shed His blood on the cross, had been resurrected, and then ascended back into heaven. It was at that time, after those events, that the Father “put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him and head over all things to the church, which is His body” (1:22).


From:  http://www.whyisrael.org/2010/11/22/the-church-is-not-israel/


Defacto

[Fat]

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Absolutely the church is not Israel and Israel is not the church. But when was the foundation for the church laid? I posted on another one of your threads Eph. 1:4

Fat

[Defacto]

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Absolutely the church is not Israel and Israel is not the church. But when was the foundation for the church laid? I posted on another one of your threads Eph. 1:4

Fat

I have posted a new response on that thread.


Defacto

[macuser]

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I think this is like comparing apples and oranges. Israel is a country in the Church or members of the body of Christ. One could refer to Israel meaning the Jewish people from the state of Israel, I guess. Even so there will be people within that group which will be members of the body of Christ, there will always be a remnant.  I believe Paul tries to make this point in Romans 11.

[Iconoclast]

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The Church is the True Israel. On the last day, all saints from all time will be gathered in one place.

[macuser]

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The Church is the True Israel. On the last day, all saints from all time will be gathered in one place.

Do you believe that the Church Age (Age of Grace) will end at the rapture?

[Moss]

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Do you believe that the Church Age (Age of Grace) will end at the rapture?

Tell me Mac, when did the Church age start? And did that end Israel and transform it into the Church? Were they ever separate?

[Isaiah9Six]

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This is a interesting thread, I hope you don't mind me jumping in the conversation.

Church: the Greek word ekklesia which means the called out. Using that description we would have to say Israel would qualify to be the church in the Old Testament. They were called out of Egypt by God and are even referred to the church in Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The church in the New Testament similarly are the called out of the world of sin. If by Israel you mean national Israel it should be obvious that it is distinct from the body of believers that constitute the church.

Please consider these thoughts