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Luke 7:18-21

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biblebuf:
 You seem to have a little trouble with this question, but I’m going to ask again, was John the Baptist a sinner?

fredjames:

--- Quote from: biblebuf on January 12, 2018, 08:28:52 am --- You seem to have a little trouble with this question, but I’m going to ask again, was John the Baptist a sinner?

--- End quote ---

Now, you have found something else to go on about, when you can't stick to the topic of our discussion, as you call it debate...

So what if you on your own preception and opinion want to define John as a sinner, when you ignore the things JESUS said to the crowd about John the Baptist.

Basically, our lives with CHRIST are not 'least' to standards lower that John the Baptist's life, as we may claim to be born again and from above. For one example, we sleep on beds and have a room or even home, or in other words, provided home cooked meals, even in restaurants. But John the Baptist chose and had the dirt and cave to live in, and only locusts and wild honey was his diet...

So, get a grip of your pride, and being wise in your own conceit, for our words in ignorance used, whether against the 'patriarch' of Israel, or even John the Baptist sent by GOD, will be used on judgement day to judge us.   

biblebuf:

--- Quote from: fredjames on January 14, 2018, 07:21:29 pm ---Now, you have found something else to go on about, when you can't stick to the topic of our discussion, as you call it debate...

So what if you on your own preception and opinion want to define John as a sinner, when you ignore the things JESUS said to the crowd about John the Baptist.

Basically, our lives with CHRIST are not 'least' to standards lower that John the Baptist's life, as we may claim to be born again and from above. For one example, we sleep on beds and have a room or even home, or in other words, provided home cooked meals, even in restaurants. But John the Baptist chose and had the dirt and cave to live in, and only locusts and wild honey was his diet...

So, get a grip of your pride, and being wise in your own conceit, for our words in ignorance used, whether against the 'patriarch' of Israel, or even John the Baptist sent by GOD, will be used on judgement day to judge us.

--- End quote ---

Your premise here from what I understand, is that John the Baptist could never have had any doubt because John was upstanding faithful man who would never allow Satan to influence any of his actions. If I am wrong in this please correct me. I ask you a basic question if John the Baptist was a sinner and you responded tell me that John the Baptist was a better man than you and I, which I do not disagree with. But was John the Baptist a sinner?

John the Baptist made the same mistake as Peter did in Matthew 16. Remember when Jesus praised him because he had received revelations from God in heaven? Then just a few verses down Jesus accused him of being a stumbling block and being used by Satan.



--- Quote --- Matthew 16
17. And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18. "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19. "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."


23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”
--- End quote ---

Now I want to present to you a problem that occurred at the time Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. John the Baptist had prophesied that Christ would not baptized by water but by the Holy Spirit and fire.


--- Quote --- "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
--- End quote ---


But then what did John do when Christ came to be baptized by him? What he did was almost the same thing as Peter did, he tried to interfere and have Christ do something that was just prophesied by John that He would not do. If Christ would've done what John asked Him to do people could've pointed at Him and say that is not the Christ according to John's prophecy. As you search the Scriptures you will never find at any time did Christ baptize with water, His disciples did but He did not.


--- Quote ---But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?" But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.”
Matthew 3
--- End quote ---

You also made this statement which is false.


--- Quote ---And John the Baptist was not himself, for he had the spirit of Elijah in him. For Elijah and Moses knew everything about JESUS,
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: truth ---Luke 1
13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
--- End quote ---

Notice that he is filled with the Holy Spirit, spirit being capitalized. And note that he is in the spirit of Elijah, spirit now at lowercase.

It appears that is very possible that John the Baptist after his ministry was finished, had some doubt of what he was seeing because he had believed like the other Jews, that the Christ was there to bring righteous judgment unto the people of Israel. This is why Jesus quotes Isaiah 35:5, 6

Now if you want to argue that because John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit he could not falter or sin, then we have another subject to approach. Can a person that is accepted Christ and been baptized and received the Holy Ghost, sin? The answer is YES.


 2 Timothy 3:16, 17  But really Fred that means nothing if you misquote the Scriptures.


BB

fredjames:

--- Quote from: biblebuf on January 14, 2018, 11:52:14 pm ---Your premise here from what I understand, is that John the Baptist could never have had any doubt because John was upstanding faithful man who would never allow Satan to influence any of his actions. If I am wrong in this please correct me. I ask you a basic question if John the Baptist was a sinner and you responded tell me that John the Baptist was a better man than you and I, which I do not disagree with. But was John the Baptist a sinner?
--- End quote ---

Where in the Scripture it says directly that John the Baptist is a sinner and a doubter like the Israelite and do quote so, as when you claim to be abiding by the forum rules....?

But in contrast, based on my Scripture and spiritual knowledge and understanding from above as taught bestowed upon me, i contradict your feeble claims in regards to John the Baptist. For i am able to truthfully and as it is written concerned, boldly testify that, when JESUS commended about John the Baptist to the crowd, He was commending someone greater than all sinners, among those born of a woman. And too greater that common Christians, compared to their lifestyle and mission unlike John the Baptist....?

Matt. 11:

11. "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he."

And prior to that, JESUS was mentioning about John the Baptist who was not, 'a reed shaken by the wind'. (Matt. 11:7). Yet based on the Israelite, those born of women and not greater than John the Baptist, they were quoted as according to Isaiah 42:1-3. And as recited again to fulfillment in Matt 12:18-21. Where there all Israelite, and Gentiles alike who were later called, were together onto, 'a bruised reed'

Therefore here is the clarification that John the Baptist remain 'an upright reed', even though himself face the wind, but nevertheless was not shaken at all, moreover to even include him as doubted CHRIST. And ironically in comparison to the Israelite, among those born of women, they were already unto, 'a bruised reed', then. And therefore understandably ones who were beaten by the wind likewise and are unto 'a bruised reed', that is from all their 'iniquities'. That is why Isaiah 53 says that,

'He was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities.'

Therefore JESUS of Nazareth taken upon Himself the Cross and became 'a bruised reed', the bearer of our 'iniquities', in our place.

In conclusion, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST i protest your feeble and false claim about John the Baptist, as 'lies'.   


--- Quote ---John the Baptist made the same mistake as Peter did in Matthew 16. Remember when Jesus praised him because he had received revelations from God in heaven? Then just a few verses down Jesus accused him of being a stumbling block and being used by Satan.
--- End quote ---

That is what as usual, while being proud and wise in your own conceit, tend to falsely incorporate and testify further more. This is because based on individual accounts Peter was rebuked and corrected for his actions and John the Baptist was not. And in contrast, John the Baptist was the 'best man' for the 'Groom', and while Peter is among the 'bride', the remnant chosen by grace. (Rom. 11:5)   


--- Quote ---Now I want to present to you a problem that occurred at the time Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. John the Baptist had prophesied that Christ would not baptized by water but by the Holy Spirit and fire.
--- End quote ---

Readers, please be careful as the Apostles cautioned us church about, 'imposters', 'counterfeits', 'those who twist their teaching and do so other Scriptures to their own destruction', and here is one clear example we are witnessing...

John the Baptist merely said that he came to baptize with water, apart from CHRIST who will come to baptize them with HOLY SPIRIT and Fire.... This does not mean that the baptism of water will cease, nor JESUS will continue even after John.
 


--- Quote ---But then what did John do when Christ came to be baptized by him? What he did was almost the same thing as Peter did, he tried to interfere and have Christ do something that was just prophesied by John that He would not do. If Christ would've done what John asked Him to do people could've pointed at Him and say that is not the Christ according to John's prophecy.
--- End quote ---


Readers, Scripturally we know that John the Baptist did not actually prevent CHRIST from baptism, while Peter did prevent CHRIST to stop from prophecying, prior to number of time, of His death to come. John the Baptist merely said based on superiority, that he was unworthy to baptize his LORD. Even prior to his disciple earlier, that he was unworthy even to untie CHRIST's sandals.     


--- Quote ---It appears that is very possible that John the Baptist after his ministry was finished, had some doubt of what he was seeing because he had believed like the other Jews, that the Christ was there to bring righteous judgment unto the people of Israel. This is why Jesus quotes Isaiah 35:5, 6

--- End quote ---

Again here in contradiction, JESUS only said,

Matt. 11:

6. 'And blessed is the one who is not offended by Me.'

Who according to all the accounts of John the Baptist and JESUS's disciple in the Gospel in Testament, were 'offended' by JESUS, since John merely proclaimed the coming of the Kingdom of GOD and the 'Holy one' of Israel, and have been commending Him...?

The very evident answer within the Scripture itself, are the 'disciples' of John themselves who were 'offended' all the while. Where they were reporting to John the Baptist number of times about CHRIST and His doings. And themselves who have not since come to believe and become the 'followers' of JESUS henceforth.

biblebuf:
“even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans‬ 3:22-23‬ NASB‬‬

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