Bible Talk > Bible Study
'SALVATION'
Hal:
--- Quote from: biblebuf on February 12, 2018, 06:03:13 pm ---Hal
A bigger question is, did the 12 disciples preached the same gospel as Paul's gospel? In other words, did the Jews received the good news of the gospel of grace through the cross, or were the Jews given the gospel of the kingdom without understanding of the cross? First Peter is about as close as I can find.
Peter also in 2 Peter recognizes the deference in Paul's gospel.
2 Peter 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as [an opportunity for] salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters, in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
The gospel of the kingdom of God VS the gospel of Grace. JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT
BB
--- End quote ---
BB
John the Baptist preached repentance "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matt 3:2. And he baptized with water but Christ never never baptized with water but He sent His Disciples out to baptize with water. Paul on the other hand was not sent to baptize the Gentiles. 1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
--- Quote from: fredjames ---The 'Twelve Apostles' were preaching the same Gospel to all nations, consisting of Jews and Gentiles alike, and making disciples of them too. And therefore baptizing them in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY SPIRIT. While Apostle Paul on the other hand was teaching the extensive mystery and wisdom in relativeness to the Gospel as well, as his given Gospel.
--- End quote ---
Quoting Fred I think we can agree that Paul was sent to teach the Gentiles something different than what the other apostles were teaching. Remember that Paul got into some major arguments with the Jewish Christians who were cleaning the law and trying to get the Gentiles to switch to obeying the Jewish laws. I'm thinking specifically of the book of Galatians 2:11-21. In fact Peter capitulated to Paul's argument and allowed Paul to continue his ministry. In fact Peter confirm this near the end of his ministry, 2 Peter 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as [an opportunity for] salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters, in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
So it is obvious that the same message was not being given to both the Jews and the Gentiles. There is only one way to salvation, that is clear, but the Church and Israel are not the same. If you believe that the church is going to be ruptured before the tribulation, what could the tribulation and the millennium be about if it's not a bout the Jews? Why is it that the temple will again be rebuilt and animal sacrifices will resume?
There will always be a remnant of Israel that will be a part of the body of Christ. Revelation tells us that there will be at least 144,000 that will go through the tribulation.
You're right BB it's something to think about :-\
fredjames:
--- Quote from: Hal on February 13, 2018, 01:07:02 am ---BB
John the Baptist preached repentance "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matt 3:2. And he baptized with water but Christ never never baptized with water but He sent His Disciples out to baptize with water. Paul on the other hand was not sent to baptize the Gentiles. 1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
--- End quote ---
This is because the preaching of John the Baptist, for repentance and the confession of all sins, and water baptism is conducted by Apostle Peter and fellow Apostles, and perhaps with their disciples of all nations. As they are evidently testified in the four Gospels and book of Acts done by them as well, even to Gentiles, where too is profitable for our teaching in faith and action today as the church. This is because the house of Gentile Cornelius by Apostle Peter and the Eunuch by Apostle Philip, were baptized with water as well....
And Apostle Paul's given gift and wisdom is to built up the church by prophesying to them, about unity and orderly doctrine in faith and love of the church toward one another.
Christ was not baptizing indeed because He was proclaiming teaching crowds, about and what the Kingdom of GOD is like, even performing miracles. But nevertheless, He was with His disciples who were baptizing on the other side of the Jordan river, while John the Baptist was baptizing at the same time on one side of the river. And CHRIST Himself too in John's Gospel did proclaim generally, as hinting to Nicodemus about the compulsory of water baptism, and also the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT, as consecutively required in order for one to be born again and from above. Therefore then one is able to 'see' and 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD. As Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel of GOD's precepts, was unable to, at that time to perceive CHRIST's teaching, about one must be born again.
Matthew 28:
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. A-men.
fredjames:
--- Quote from: Hal on February 13, 2018, 01:07:02 am --- Quoting Fred I think we can agree that Paul was sent to teach the Gentiles something different than what the other apostles were teaching. Remember that Paul got into some major arguments with the Jewish Christians who were cleaning the law and trying to get the Gentiles to switch to obeying the Jewish laws. I'm thinking specifically of the book of Galatians 2:11-21. In fact Peter capitulated to Paul's argument and allowed Paul to continue his ministry. In fact Peter confirm this near the end of his ministry, 2 Peter 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as [an opportunity for] salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters, in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
--- End quote ---
Galatians 2:
14. But when I saw that they walk not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel, ....................
Apostle Paul, himself agrees and acknowledges that there is one truth of the Gospel, that they similarly supposedly share in faith with one another. And here whether they in wisdom have come to perceive or not, but in action to Paul they seem not to walk uprightly accordingly. This is probably according to the enhanced wisdom given Paul by our LORD, in revelation understanding thoroughly more about the truth of the Gospel in depth. Where he indeed witness they walk not uprightly, here in the matters of communing with the Gentiles. Seemingly, they are still bound by the Law of Moses in 'division', between the circumcised and uncircumcised, which as to Paul, CHRIST have had them 'abolished', even circumcision in another matter.
It was Apostle Peter's action that caused the chain reaction of the other Jews there to follow, segregating themselves from tables of the Gentiles, when he saw James' men from Jerusalem, sent for him. In the church of the Jews in Jerusalem, not everyone are fully converted to the teaching and faith of the truth of the Gospel. Even Apostle Paul, at one time when he went to see Peter in Jerusalem, he witnessed there were 'sneaked in Jews' among believers. Apostle Peter and many of the Jewish Christians still remain in Jerusalem and Jerusalem church, with James as the leader. Therefore persecution of Jewish Christians, especially the disciples of CHRIST, following JESUS whom they crucified, is even greater than Apostle Paul out there. Moreover Paul is the most wanted man by the Jews in Jerusalem, where he once escaped persecution, let down by a basket, and since never returned.
Apostle Peter did not have issues to meat with Gentile Christians, as prior to this, in Joppa, the house of Simon, he already received a 'vision', in regards to the Gentiles, as they are equally clean and accepted by GOD. And due to this 'vision', he then boldly proceeded to the house of Cornelius, the Gentile in order to ordain them equally in faith with CHRIST.
Peter 'capitulated' not to Paul's enhanced revelational doctrine in full truth of the Gospel, according to the wisdom given him. And which himself did claim it is difficult to understand, while there are others who twist them, so they do other Scriptures, to their own destruction. But rather Peter was pierced of his 'hypocrisy', claimed Paul, in pleasing the Jews from the Gentiles, when put to the 'test of faith'.
Today, from that day Apostle Peter did not have in compilation these writings, even Paul's, to study and refer, in order to perceive in sound doctrine knowledge, the full truth of the Gospel. Yet, we have them in 27 books compilation and with the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, that is from the Gospel according to Matthew till the Gospel Revelation according to John. Where each of them have 'testified' 'differently' in doctrine, while there are some similarities rather, inspired as their individual account and according to the wisdom given them.
Does this mean according to some believers, that from the compilation of 27 books in the New Testament, each testified even ones extensively in revelation from the LORD, and according to the gifts and wisdom given them individually, we are to distinguish and choose which teaching is for us, and which is for the Jews...?
This is evidently as a result today, to the various divided 'denominations', even their believers as a testament here, having accepted, as Apostle Paul said it, 'another jesus and another spirit'. And their testament in division, debunks 2 Timothy 3:16&17, period
P.S. Therefore i hope in their church they do segregate the Jews from the Gentiles, and give them as a sermon from the LORD, their individually given Gospel Scriptures in the New Testament. That is the twelve testified for the Jews alone 'verses' and sermon for the day, and Paul's testified version for the Gentiles 'verses' and sermon for the day, as individual doctrine for both for the day building them up divided in faith. And too pray divided from one another to GOD.
fredjames:
--- Quote from: fredjames on February 14, 2018, 03:01:54 am ---Galatians 2:
14. But when I saw that they walk not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel, ....................
Apostle Paul, himself agrees and acknowledges that there is one truth of the Gospel, that they similarly supposedly share in faith with one another. And here whether they in wisdom have come to perceive or not, but in action to Paul they seem not to walk uprightly accordingly. This is probably according to the enhanced wisdom given Paul by our LORD, in revelation understanding thoroughly more about the truth of the Gospel in depth. Where he indeed witness they walk not uprightly, here in the matters of communing with the Gentiles. Seemingly, they are still bound by the Law of Moses in 'division', between the circumcised and uncircumcised, which as to Paul, CHRIST have had them 'abolished', even circumcision in another matter.
It was Apostle Peter's action that caused the chain reaction of the other Jews there to follow, segregating themselves from tables of the Gentiles, when he saw James' men from Jerusalem, sent for him. In the church of the Jews in Jerusalem, not everyone are fully converted to the teaching and faith of the truth of the Gospel. Even Apostle Paul, at one time when he went to see Peter in Jerusalem, he witnessed there were 'sneaked in Jews' among believers. Apostle Peter and many of the Jewish Christians still remain in Jerusalem and Jerusalem church, with James as the leader. Therefore persecution of Jewish Christians, especially the disciples of CHRIST, following JESUS whom they crucified, is even greater than Apostle Paul out there. Moreover Paul is the most wanted man by the Jews in Jerusalem, where he once escaped persecution, let down by a basket, and since never returned.
Apostle Peter did not have issues to meat with Gentile Christians, as prior to this, in Joppa, the house of Simon, he already received a 'vision', in regards to the Gentiles, as they are equally clean and accepted by GOD. And due to this 'vision', he then boldly proceeded to the house of Cornelius, the Gentile in order to ordain them equally in faith with CHRIST.
Peter 'capitulated' not to Paul's enhanced revelational doctrine in full truth of the Gospel, according to the wisdom given him. And which himself did claim it is difficult to understand, while there are others who twist them, so they do other Scriptures, to their own destruction. But rather Peter was pierced of his 'hypocrisy', claimed Paul, in pleasing the Jews from the Gentiles, when put to the 'test of faith'.
Today, from that day Apostle Peter did not have in compilation these writings, even Paul's, to study and refer, in order to perceive in sound doctrine knowledge, the full truth of the Gospel. Yet, we have them in 27 books compilation and with the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, that is from the Gospel according to Matthew till the Gospel Revelation according to John. Where each of them have 'testified' 'differently' in doctrine, while there are some similarities rather, inspired as their individual account and according to the wisdom given them.
Does this mean according to some believers, that from the compilation of 27 books in the New Testament, each testified even ones extensively in revelation from the LORD, and according to the gifts and wisdom given them individually, we are to distinguish and choose which teaching is for us, and which is for the Jews...?
This is evidently as a result today, to the various divided 'denominations', even their believers as a testament here, having accepted, as Apostle Paul said it, 'another jesus and another spirit'. And their testament in division, debunks 2 Timothy 3:16&17, period
P.S. Therefore i hope in their church they do segregate the Jews from the Gentiles, and give them as a sermon from the LORD, their individually given Gospel Scriptures in the New Testament. That is the twelve testified for the Jews alone 'verses' and sermon for the day, and Paul's testified version for the Gentiles 'verses' and sermon for the day. As giving them separately individual doctrine for both for the day building them up to be divided in faith. And too pray divided prayers accordingly from one another to GOD. This proves that the division remain the same after CHRIST, proclaimed by the Gentiles today....
--- End quote ---
James 3:
1. My brethren, be not many masters(teachers), knowing that we shall receive the 'greater condemnation'(strict judgement).
biblebuf:
--- Quote from: Hal on February 13, 2018, 01:07:02 am ---BB
John the Baptist preached repentance "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matt 3:2. And he baptized with water but Christ never never baptized with water but He sent His Disciples out to baptize with water. Paul on the other hand was not sent to baptize the Gentiles. 1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
Quoting Fred I think we can agree that Paul was sent to teach the Gentiles something different than what the other apostles were teaching. Remember that Paul got into some major arguments with the Jewish Christians who were cleaning the law and trying to get the Gentiles to switch to obeying the Jewish laws. I'm thinking specifically of the book of Galatians 2:11-21. In fact Peter capitulated to Paul's argument and allowed Paul to continue his ministry. In fact Peter confirm this near the end of his ministry, 2 Peter 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as [an opportunity for] salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters, in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
So it is obvious that the same message was not being given to both the Jews and the Gentiles. There is only one way to salvation, that is clear, but the Church and Israel are not the same. If you believe that the church is going to be ruptured before the tribulation, what could the tribulation and the millennium be about if it's not a bout the Jews? Why is it that the temple will again be rebuilt and animal sacrifices will resume?
There will always be a remnant of Israel that will be a part of the body of Christ. Revelation tells us that there will be at least 144,000 that will go through the tribulation.
You're right BB it's something to think about :-\
--- End quote ---
The king and kingdom was promised to the nation of Israel
Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
The grace of God is offered freely to all
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
The kingdom was spoken about since the world began
Acts 3:21-25 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
The dispensation of God’s grace was kept secret since the world began
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
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