Bible Talk > Apologetics
Does God exist?
obi_donkenobi:
--- Quote from: JB Horn on October 18, 2018, 12:04:03 am ---Hello Obi,
I would like to know a little more about your beliefs. The way I see it the universe could only come about in one of three ways.
1) It appeared for no reason and no cause, from absolutely nothing.
2) It has always existed, no starting time, no beginning.
3) It was created.
What do believe?
JB
--- End quote ---
>>Howdy JB, you have provided three possible answers to the question: How could a universe come into being? But there is one more perfectly acceptable one, and indeed, it's the only correct one: I don't know. I don't know is sometimes the very best answer we can have. It opens our minds to searching for real answers that are based on the scientific research of reality. Some questions, such as the above, seem unanswerable to us, but this does not justify taking the easy path and making up answers based on old, unsubstantiated stories to comfort ourselves. Isn't this what theists have done? Would you need faith, if you had real answers?
From the web TV show, The Atheist Experience ( http://www.atheist-experience.com/), one of the main hosts, Matt Dillahunty, often brings up the "jar of gumballs" argument, which goes like this: "In this jar, there are either an even number of gumballs, or there are an odd number." Joe might say, "I have faith that there are an even number of gumballs in the jar." Greg might reply, "I don't believe you're right." Joe may or may not be right, but isn't using faith to determine the answer, unreliable? Of course, the correct answer would be, "I don't know if there are an even or odd number of gumballs. Let's open the jar and count them up." Greg has correctly taken the skeptical position to Joe's assertion. Doesn't this also apply to the question of origin?
JB Horn:
--- Quote from: obi_donkenobi on October 18, 2018, 03:27:52 am --->>Howdy JB, you have provided three possible answers to the question: How could a universe come into being? But there is one more perfectly acceptable one, and indeed, it's the only correct one: I don't know. I don't know is sometimes the very best answer we can have. It opens our minds to searching for real answers that are based on the scientific research of reality. Some questions, such as the above, seem unanswerable to us, but this does not justify taking the easy path and making up answers based on old, unsubstantiated stories to comfort ourselves. Isn't this what theists have done? Would you need faith, if you had real answers?
From the web TV show, The Atheist Experience ( http://www.atheist-experience.com/), one of the main hosts, Matt Dillahunty, often brings up the "jar of gumballs" argument, which goes like this: "In this jar, there are either an even number of gumballs, or there are an odd number." Joe might say, "I have faith that there are an even number of gumballs in the jar." Greg might reply, "I don't believe you're right." Joe may or may not be right, but isn't using faith to determine the answer, unreliable? Of course, the correct answer would be, "I don't know if there are an even or odd number of gumballs. Let's open the jar and count them up." Greg has correctly taken the skeptical position to Joe's assertion. Doesn't this also apply to the question of origin?
--- End quote ---
So basically your answer is that science is unable to give you an answer so you refuse to look further. There are three answers and two can be proven wrong by any high school science teacher. The faith of an athlete must be right up there with That pope Francis guy.
Fat:
--- Quote from: obi_donkenobi on October 18, 2018, 02:57:17 am --->>Fat: First, are you aware that it's impossible to prove a negative? So asking me to prove there is no God is not a viable question. Second, it isn't my position that there is no god or gods; maybe there is or are. I am simply un-convinced that your claim for a Christian God is true. I am not making a positive claim - I am doubting your claim. You now have the Burden of Proof to show such a thing exists in reality, and I'm pretty certain you can't. Can you?
--- End quote ---
No side stepping my unbelieving friend, Christian faith is based on the Jewish belief in a Creator. Christ first appears in the third chapter of the Old Testament (vs 15) and is part of our claim of creation.
You say you can’t prove a negative but it seems you are unable to prove a positive either. JB has given you the three possibilities to the existence of the universe you’ve been asked to choose the right answer and you are unable to.
Well I have already given you the answer in my first reply to you OP. The scientific proof of God existence is that you exist, sense the other two possibilities unacceptable according to your beloved science. Prove me wrong, give me a plausible alternative.
This is an apologetic forum, so defend your faith and it is takes faith to believe as you do.( For no reason you exist ) was
obi_donkenobi:
--- Quote from: JB Horn on October 18, 2018, 08:24:28 am ---So basically your answer is that science is unable to give you an answer so you refuse to look further. There are three answers and two can be proven wrong by any high school science teacher. The faith of an athlete must be right up there with That pope Francis guy.
--- End quote ---
>>JB Horn: Um, no, that's not what I said. Where did I say that I "refuse to look further?" In fact, I said quite the opposite. Let me quote myself: I don't know is sometimes the very best answer we can have. It opens our minds to searching for real answers that are based on the scientific research of reality.
Do you see the difference between what you thought I said, and what I actually said?
Do you not recognize the fourth answer as a valid answer? What if I asked you what the square root of 3,472.568 was off the top of your head and without the use of a calculator? Wouldn't the correct answer be: I don't know?
And isn't it true that when someone thinks they have the right answer, they would stop looking for the right answer? They may be excused for being unaware of being wrong, but once they become aware that they may be wrong, wouldn't the honest thing for them to do would be to start investigating the truth of their previously held belief?
JB Horn:
--- Quote from: obi_donkenobi on October 18, 2018, 01:49:32 pm --->>JB Horn: Um, no, that's not what I said. Where did I say that I "refuse to look further?" In fact, I said quite the opposite. Let me quote myself: I don't know is sometimes the very best answer we can have. It opens our minds to searching for real answers that are based on the scientific research of reality.
Do you see the difference between what you thought I said, and what I actually said?
Do you not recognize the fourth answer as a valid answer? What if I asked you what the square root of 3,472.568 was off the top of your head and without the use of a calculator? Wouldn't the correct answer be: I don't know?
And isn't it true that when someone thinks they have the right answer, they would stop looking for the right answer? They may be excused for being unaware of being wrong, but once they become aware that they may be wrong, wouldn't the honest thing for them to do would be to start investigating the truth of their previously held belief?
--- End quote ---
You don't remember posting this?
--- Quote ---I'm actually an atheist, and my aim is to de-convert as many Christians as possible because belief in anything supernatural is harmful to an individual and society. Belief in gods cause rifts between family members, members and groups within society and entire nations. The divisiveness of religion has always led to hate, conflict, terror, war and death. Belief in the Christian God does provide comfort against the fear of death and oblivion, but it is almost certainly a false comfort and the cost for that benefit (based on falsehoods) is too high.
--- End quote ---
And by the way Don't know is not an answer, it is a lack of an answer. I believe that you misstated your purpose for visiting this forum.
It is my opinion that you are lost and confused about the purpose of your life, and you've come here to find some reason in your earthly existence. And you have admitted that there may be a God or even gods that exist. Are you an atheist or not?
--- Quote ---Second, it isn't my position that there is no god or gods; maybe there is or are.
--- End quote ---
Most religions believe in a god of creations, even the American indigenous natives, to be politically correct, believe in a creator. Atheists do not, and we are going to have to get through that question before we go any further.
The comfortable thing about being an atheist is that you cannot sin, you can only break the law. As long as what you do is legal then an atheist feels no responsibility for their actions.There is nothing illegal about cheating on your spouse, so it is not a sin and there are no repercussions unless you're caught by your spouse. Tell me Obi if there is a God do you believe that you could have sinned against him?
JB
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