Author Topic: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation  (Read 4174 times)

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BCsenior

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Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« on: July 13, 2019, 05:14:27 pm »
“And we know that God causes everything to work together
for the good of those who love God and are called
according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)

These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

Those who truly love God obey Him by resisting temptations to sin!

“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation.
Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God
has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)

Believers who endure temptation:
● love God
● chose to be obedient to Jesus (see below)
● will receive the crown of (eternal) life

“Temptation comes from our own desires,
which entice us and drag us away.
These desires give birth to sinful actions.
And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.
So, don’t be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.” (James 1:14-16)

Believers who do NOT endure temptation:
● will fall into habitual sin
● will receive spiritual (eternal) death …
UNLESS they sincerely repent (stop their habitual sinning).

Those who really love Jesus obey Him
“Those who accept My commandments and obey them
are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
“All who love Me will do what I say.” (John 14:23)
“Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.” (John 14:24)
“When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love” (John 15:10)
“You are my friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)
Who gets to heaven who does not love Jesus, who is not His friend,
and who does not obey His commandments?


Slaves of sin -- OR -- slaves of obedience
“… if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

“… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:51)

“if you want to receive eternal life,
keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)     

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)         

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments
have life with God. But there is NO (eternal) life in those
who do not keep His commandments.”

(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, which was quoted as Scripture by early
Christian leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria)

Fat

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 06:40:45 pm »
Are there believers (saved persons) who do not love God? (Satan believes but does not accept)

Can a Believer who is baptized with the Holy Ghost fall into habitual sin?

Can a Believer not be baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Doesn't repentance require the turning away from sin?

Doesn't accepting Christ as your Savior require repentance?


There will always be church goers who have never accepted Christ.


BCsenior

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2019, 12:32:53 pm »
Are there believers (saved persons) who do not love God?
Yes, some don't love Him enough to follow Him, be obedient, etc.

Can a Believer who is baptized with the Holy Ghost fall into habitual sin?
Yes, any born-again and Spirit-filled believer can.

Can a Believer not be baptized with the Holy Ghost?
Yes, most are not ... but do you understand what this term refers to?

Doesn't repentance require the turning away from sin?
Yes, true repentance surely does,

Doesn't accepting Christ as your Savior require repentance?
Yes.

There will always be church goers who have never accepted Christ.
Yes, those who only believe intellectually.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 12:35:51 pm by BCsenior »

Fat

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2019, 12:47:49 pm »
 Can you explain to me please how can you repent ( turn from sin) and still be An habitual sinner.

Fat

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2019, 12:54:58 pm »
Did Christ ever baptize with water.
How does Christ baptize?
Who is the helper sent to the believers after the resurrection?
Paul tells us that all believers have been given gifts from the Holy Ghost, did he lie?

BCsenior

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 12:56:15 pm »
Can you explain to me please how can you repent ( turn from sin) and still be An habitual sinner.

IMO, all born-again believers will be needing to repent more than once, that's for sure.
E.G. initial repentance is for pre-baby believers,
and has nothing to do with the repentance required of those who are on meat.

Having free will means that we can choose to be a habitual sinner.

Fat

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 01:00:22 pm »
So John 3:16 is a lie? Everlasting life does not come to ALL those who believe in Him.

Moss

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 01:39:43 pm »
IMO, all born-again believers will be needing to repent more than once, that's for sure.
E.G. initial repentance is for pre-baby believers,
and has nothing to do with the repentance required of those who are on meat.

Having free will means that we can choose to be a habitual sinner.

I don’t understand, you either trun from habitual sin or you don’t. Do believers occasionally fall and sin, yes and they need to confess and ask forgiveness, but they are not on the road to hell.

If you tell me you have not sinned since you salvation, I would find that hard to believe.

Peace
Moss

BCsenior

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 02:39:52 pm »
I don’t understand ...
... what I have written. Yes, that's true.

biblebuf

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2019, 05:28:54 pm »
It appears this discussion is about the preservation of the saints, addressed by John Calvin. The subject was also covered by person we refer to as Jesus Christ and his followers called Paul, John and Peter.




John 6:39 
39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Romans 8:37-39 
37. But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39. nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 3:9 
9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Philippians 1:6 
6. [For I am] confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17 
17. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, [he is] a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Jude 1:24 
24. Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

1 John 2:19-20 
19. They went out from us, but they were not [really] of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but [they went out], so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.

1 John 5:4 
4. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.

Titus 3:5 
5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

John 10:24-30 
24. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. 26. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29. "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand. 30. "I and the Father are one."


1 Peter 1:3-5 
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4. to [obtain] an inheritance [which is] imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Ephesians 4:30 
30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Romans 11:29 
29. for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 3:9 
9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


2 Timothy 4:18 
18. The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him [be] the glory forever and ever. Amen.

John 5:24 
24. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 
3. But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil [one].

Ephesians 1:11-14 
11. also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12. to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14. who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Corinthians 10:13 
13. No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.


BB

BCsenior

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2019, 08:02:17 pm »
biblebuf,

Your verses are on one side of the aisle.
My verses are on the other side of the aisle.

IMO, many of your verses are misunderstood.

One example for you ponder ...
All of those promises, etc. in Ephesians and Colossians
were written by Paul to "the faithful", not to the unfaithful.

Would you like to see any of the following?

Many NT verses prove each of these spiritual truths:
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers stay righteous through their obedience
Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
Believers must be victorious overcomers
 
One full page of Scripture verses is available
for almost every one of the above topics.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 08:04:35 pm by BCsenior »

biblebuf

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 12:46:42 am »
Quote
Your verses are on one side of the aisle.
My verses are on the other side of the aisle.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.



Quote
IMO, many of your verses are misunderstood.

One example for you ponder ...
All of those promises, etc. in Ephesians and Colossians
were written by Paul to "the faithful", not to the unfaithful.


having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

That looks pretty cut and dried to me. The word believe and faithful are interchangeable in the Bible.
From G3982; objectively trustworthy; subjectively trustful: - believe (-ing, -r), faithful (-ly), sure, true.




Quote
Would you like to see any of the following?

Yes I would like to see all of the following so that we can discuss specifics. God is faithful even if we are not. Believers will stray but God will always bring them back. Is this not true in your CASE?



Quote
Many NT verses prove each of these spiritual truths:
Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
Believers stay righteous through their obedience
Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
Believers must be victorious overcomers
 
 
One full page of Scripture verses is available
for almost every one of the above topics.

BB

BCsenior

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2019, 09:26:48 am »
2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Yes I would like to see all of the following so that we can discuss specifics.
God is faithful even if we are not. 

Even when we fall into sin, God is faithful to forgive us, if we repent.
If we disown God, He will surely disown us, because God must be faithful to Himself;
He cannot accept anyone who rejects Him.
These 2 meanings are not contradictory.

I will post the first topic post haste.

biblebuf

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Re: Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 06:28:13 pm »
Even when we fall into sin, God is faithful to forgive us, if we repent.
If we disown God, He will surely disown us, because God must be faithful to Himself;
He cannot accept anyone who rejects Him.
These 2 meanings are not contradictory.

I will post the first topic post haste.

Quote
Even when we fall into sin, God is faithful to forgive us, if we repent.

Agreed



That concept, that a believer can unbelief is not biblical. I have posted the verses that contradict that.


Quote
2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Yes I would like to see all of the following so that we can discuss specifics.
God is faithful even if we are not. 

Do you see the word WE, Paul is speaking of believers. And repeating Jesus. John 6:39, John John 10:26-30