“This do in remembrance of me.” - Spurgeon

[Bob]

• 

Micah 5:2. The Messiah was not supposed to be born in Bethlehem, and Jesus was from Nazareth. Bethlehem is the City of David. The one whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting is God. It depends on how you read this verse. "...yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me {God} that is to be ruler in Israel..." This is a reference to David. Jeremiah 23:6. It says the same thing in Jeremiah 33:16, but it says "she". Some say the she refers to Jerusalem, but it says Lord, and is translated from the Tetragrammaton. It is blasphemous to equate this to a city. Isaiah 7:14. "The Hebrew word translated "virgin" in the KJV is "almah" and it means simply a young woman or maiden. It is a mistranslation. Betulah means "virgin". The woman would name her son Immanuel. This is a proper noun and Jesus' name is not Immanuel. Psalm 72:10. Because of the Temple will kings bring the Messiah gifts. Psalm 68:29. "Because of thy temple at Jerusalem shall kings bring presents unto thee". Christians have combined three separate messianic prophecies. 1) The three wise men, 2) The star in the east with the visiting kings, and 3) the kings bearing gifts. Jeremiah 31:15. Rachel is the mother of Joseph and the House of Israel, the northern kingdom. Hosea 11:1. "...and I called my son out of Egypt". This is a reference to Israel and the Exodus. Psalm 2:7. God has a lot of adopted sons, his only biological son was Adam.

Micah was the 33rd  book of the bible written 300 years after David 735-710 B.C. Note the word Shall in the prophacy

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isaiah was written after Micah 700-681 B.C.

Jeremiah was also after Micah 586-570 B.C

You are doing exactly what you told me not to do, taking Scripture out of context. If you only took the time to read one verse up it would make sense to you. And it is clear in Jeremiah 23:5  that he is speaking of the seed of David note the word Branch


Jeremiah 23:5-6
5. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jeremiah 33:15
15. In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.



The New Testament says nothing about three wise men by the way. The Messiah being born from a virgin became the second Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-49

Immanuel (God with us) John 1:1-14


So I have a question for you, Leviticus requires that the Jewish people make animal sacrifice for the atonement of their sins. Do the Jewish people comply with this law, as this law ever been rescinded in the Old Testament?  How can your sins ever be forgiven if you disobey your law?

[Hal]

• 

I cannot rely on the NT. It was written decades, if not centuries after Jesus died and there was no contemporaneous record kept when he was alive. It's all hearsay and it's full of contradictions. There are tens of thousands of Christian denominations, they all believe something different, and they cannot agree even amongst themselves.

“Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.”
ISAIAH‬ 53:1-12‬ NASB‬‬


This is not speaking of David

[Hal]

• 

@Hal:  It is appropriate to assign Isaiah 53 to Jesus except for this:  The Messiah's soul/body will be made a lamb for a sin offering.  Isaiah 53:7, 10.  The lamb must be female.  Leviticus 4:32. "And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering,  he shall bring it a female without blemish".  Malachi 1:14. "But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing..."  To complete the sacrifice, the body must be burned on the altar as a burnt offering. Daniel 7:11. "...I beheld even til the beast was  slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame".

Sorry Sue but I think you missed the text what does it say about the gender of the Messiah? SNIP




But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

[Hal]

• 

There are alot of prophecies that identify the Messiah as a woman. We have talked about the sacrificial lamb, and Jeremiah 33:15-18. "...and this is the name wherewith SHE shall be called, the Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord, David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel. Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually". There are alot of other prophecies  and if you're interested, I can show them to you. BTW, I only read the KJV.

The KJV has many mistakes in its translation.FYI


So We have a conflict in the Scriptures? Or are we misinterpreting them? The New Testament claim that the messiah is part of the God head. God the Father, God the Man zson and God the Spirit. It also tells us that ALL will bow to the Christ.


If you can not reconcile these verses then you must conclude that one or more of them are faults prophecy.


I don’t find that to be a problem with the totality of the OT and NT takin as one.


Hal

[Bob]

• 

@Bob:  Micah 5. David has been reincarnated and he will again be made the king of Israel forever. He will be from Bethlehem, the city of David.  Ezekiel 37:24-25. "...and my servant David shall be their prince forever". I agree that the Messiah will be a descendant of David. Regarding the three wise men:  There are alot of messianic prophecies that are not in the canonized Bible, like the voice the Messiah would hear from Heaven. Regarding Immanuel:  Isaiah 7:15-16 completes the prophecy. "...For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings". Jesus did not fulfill this. The Messiah will be the seed of Eve, meaning "life". Adam was the serpent, part of his anatomy. His name was changed to Satan when he died and went to Heaven. Genesis 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel".  Genesis 4:25. "And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew". It is more acceptable to God to do righteousness than sacrifice. The sacrifices were offered at the Temple on the altar.  The second Temple was destroyed in 70 ce.

Isaiah 7:15-16 is referring to the promised son of Isaiah the kings of Syria and Ephraim were to meet their doom at the hands of the Assyrians. Read Chapter 8.

Adam was the serpent, part of his anatomy. His name was changed to Satan when he died and went to Heaven. Genesis 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel”.

You really can’t be serious here. Talk about out of context.

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” 16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” 17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.

The sacrifices were offered at the Temple on the altar.  The second Temple was destroyed in 70 ce.

So what? Where are your priest?

It is more acceptable to God to do righteousness than sacrifice

Agreed.

[Hal]

• 

@ Hal: There are only two mistranslations in the KJV. Exodus 22:28. "Thou shalt not revile the gods..." "gods" should be "judges". Isaiah 7:14. "...Behold, a virgin shall conceive..." "virgin" should be "maiden". When something doesn't make sense, I consult a Rabbi about the Hebrew. Deuteronomy 6:4. "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord". Unlike Judaism and Islam, Christianity is not monotheistic. If God is three in one, then he suffers from a multiple personality disorder. The following is self explanatory: "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children". Isaiah 66:7-8.

Try mark 16, the last half of mark wa never in Marks transcript. It was added 1100 years after his death. There are many more problems with that KJV but I doubt they are worth the time to go over.


Talking with you makes me understand why Christ spoke in parables.  Matt 13:10

[Bob]

• 

@ Bob:  I do not believe in a talking snake. Proverbs 14:15. "This simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going". The creation of Satan was a side effect of the creation of man. Adam was created as the antithesis of God. Exactly the same, yet totally opposite. What A&E did was a sexual act, carnal knowledge. Not only was Eve Adam's wife, she was also his daughter. God told Adam not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge before Eve was created. It was hearsay. And then Adam comes back to Eve and asks, "hath God said". Genesis 3:1. "Now the serpent was more subtil…" This means he had an intellect unlike other creatures. Adam was the Tree of Knowledge and Eve was the Tree of Life. In Isaiah 56:3, a eunuch is called "a dry tree". Eve means "life" or "living". Milk is the fruit of the Tree of Life, and women bear children. Adam was confronted by God and he blames Eve for performing the act. Eve tells the Truth. Both the serpent and the ground were cursed. Adam comes from "adamah" which means "out of the ground". Adam was made from dust/mud/clay. Adam was the son of God. In Job 1:6, 2:1, Satan is called "son of God".

Talk about cherry picking verses, we can’t have a study of the Scriptures under this form of assault on their meaning.  You may be Jewish by birth but not by practice.
If we wanted to see the Bible rewritten we would support the NWT followers .

I’ll let you have a response before I lock the thread, anyone else want to post do soon please.

God bless

[Hal]

• 

Susan


If you don’t believe the Scriptures to be true what basis is there for you to believe that there is a God in the first place?


 I know your answer is going to be that you are interpreting the Scriptures differently not that you don’t believe them.  The truth is you are manipulating the text by doing what you asked that it not be done.  This is the same thing that Jehovah’s Witnesses have tried to do and has caused nothing but conflict in their interpretation of the Scriptures.


The truth is you don’t accept the Scriptures as written.


Hal