(Gen 6:1-4) Sons of God, Daughters of Man and Giants

[admin]

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Gen 6, Sons of God, Daughters of Man and Giants

[pilgrim]

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Hello whoever;

I was just listening to the Brother on the passage in Gen. 6 about the mixing of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Since I have a different view of the passage, for the benefit of the readers in having a different belief I will give my understanding of it.

In looking at the name of the sons of God, the word “son” is the Hebrew word “ben,” simply meaning “offspring.” I do believe the sons of God were angels who as peter said: God: “spared not the angels who sinned” (2 Pet. 2:4). By the fact that Peter mentioned these before he mention Noah seems to indicate the time that the angels sinned.

Of these angels Jude seems to address the same ones Peter spoke of. He said:

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire (Jude 6-7).

In tracing back the genealogy of man to Adam, Besides Adam, the only ones called the Sons of God were angels. They were angels and spoken of as sons of God especially in the book of Job.

Adam died the day he sinned and with his offspring was no longer the son of God. That was what the Lord spoke of to Nicodemus in Jo. 3 about; being born back into the family of God from above.

Nowhere before the flood was different races mentioned. As to differences in the physical anatomy of the offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain, nothing is ever mentioned. In which case the question must be asked, how could the mating of the children of Seth and Cain produce a race of giants, and why would it be thought that none of them could or would be saved? We have believers today and non-believers marrying and some of their children become believers.

As to angels not being able to reproduce, nothing can be found in the Scriptures saying that. The Lord said that there would be no marrying or giving in marriage in heaven, but nothing about angels not being able to have sexual relation is mentioned. Also, the Lord’s words were not in the New Testament. Also the New Testament begins with the Book of Acts not Matthew.

It was said that angels could not suffer physical punishment but according to Jude 6-7 says they can; so can the offspring of angels and women; the Nephilim’s (fallen, or mighty ones) reproduce as hybrids and are still with us.

The angels in Jude are likened to Sodom and Gomorrah in their sexual perversions and “…kept not their first estate, nor their proper domain” and having gone after strange (different; that of women) flesh.

As to all in the ark being believers, It is said that all the Israelites were baptized into Moses and all drank of that Spiritual Rock that followed them which was Christ but not all made it to the promised land. I don’t believe we can refer to those in the ark as believers like we can today. Today believers are understood to mean born from above by the Holy Spirit and reborn into the family of God which with the exception of Adam could not be said of those in the ark or before or after the flood.

I hope and pray (yes I do) that in my posts I have perhaps at time enlightened but not confused anyone. Since I have not received many rebuttal’s, and many have read them I take it that what I have said has been appreciated by some. Whatever, I would like to hear from you so I will know whether I should continue or not.

In His grace

Pilgrim

PS, I have posted a study of the rapture but it was rejected because it was said there were too many words. The limit of 20000 was specified so I reduced the post to less than 18.500 but have so far been denied posting it.

Would someone please explain? Have I been shut out?

[admin]

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PS, I have posted a study of the rapture but it was rejected because it was said there were too many words. The limit of 20000 was specified so I reduced the post to less than 18.500 but have so far been denied posting it.

Would someone please explain? Have I been shut out?

I don't know what to tell you here my friend. The limit is set for 20000 and has been every since the board was put up. You could post half of it and then post the second half using the reply button and call it part 2.

Peace.
Admindude

[admin]

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Nowhere before the flood was different races mentioned. As to differences in the physical anatomy of the offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain, nothing is ever mentioned. In which case the question must be asked, how could the mating of the children of Seth and Cain produce a race of giants, and why would it be thought that none of them could or would be saved? We have believers today and non-believers marrying and some of their children become believers.

This is a theory on who the sons of God and the daughters of men were being referenced too in Gen 6.
Let me ask you this, why would God want to destroy mankind for what Satan's angels did? And would flooding the Earth have any effect on angelic spirits?

How could the mating of the children of Seth and Cain?

There are now 4 races in the world. Where did they come from? Were there always Pygmies?


In Christ
AD

[pilgrim]

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Thanks AD for your response.

As to my conclusions being a theory, I didn’t think I was giving a theory. I think Peter and Jude were rather clear about who they were talking about when they said angels had gone after different flesh (that of women) in contrast to flesh of angels. If they were not addressing Gen. 6, then their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere.

You say:

"Let me ask you this, why would God want to destroy mankind for what Satan's angels did? And would flooding the Earth have any effect on angelic spirits?"

He did not destroy because of what angels did. It was their offspring, the Nephilim’s who so corrupted mankind that God destroyed them all with the exception of 8 in the ark. As to the flood affecting angels, I never said anything about such. I did show where they are confined in Hell and being punished for their sins (Jude 6).

“There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:4-5).

Here we can plainly see the corruption of the entire race. The wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil.”

So it seems pretty clear that God destroyed the earth because of what man was doing, not angels. The earth belongs to man, not angels. Without exception, every thing they thought and intended to do was evil, and it seems as though it is about that way again.

When the Lord spoke of what it would be like when He returns He said: “"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be” (Matt. 24:37). We should not wonder that it seems that there is no simple logic anymore. We have lost the ability to reason about the simplest things and arrive at a simple conclusion. It is as if with few exceptions the whole world has gone insane.

Concerning your remark: “There are now 4 races in the world. Where did they come from? Were there always Pygmies”?

Since I am not an anthropologist and the Bible doe’s not say, I have no idea of where or how the Pygmies came about.

Thanks again AD, I hope I have cleared up my remarks.

In His grace

pilgrim

[admin]

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So it seems pretty clear that God destroyed the earth because of what man was doing, not angels. The earth belongs to man, not angels. Without exception, every thing they thought and intended to do was evil, and it seems as though it is about that way again.

I totally agree with this statement , the angels had nothing to do with this, they are not mention in Gen 6.

As to my conclusions being a theory, I didn’t think I was giving a theory. I think Peter and Jude were rather clear about who they were talking about when they said angels had gone after different flesh (that of women) in contrast to flesh of angels. If they were not addressing Gen. 6, then their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere.

Jude 6 says  "angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has bkept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,"

2 Pet 2:4  says For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment

Gill gives a good commentary on your selected text.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate
Or "principality"; that holy, honourable, and happy condition, in which they were created; for they were created in perfect holiness and righteousness, stood in the relation of sons to God, and were, for the lustre of their nature, comparable to the morning stars; they were among the thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers; were a superior rank of creatures to men, and who beheld the face, and enjoyed the presence of God; but this estate they kept not, for being mutable creatures, one of them first sinning, the rest were drawn into it by him, and so were not what they were before, nor in the same estate, or place:

but left their own habitation;
by attempting to rise higher; or by quitting their station and posts of honour, being unwilling to be subject to God, and especially to the Son of God, who was to assume human nature, and in it be above them, which they could not bear; and by gathering together in a body, in another place, with Satan at the head of them; though this may be considered as a part of their punishment, and they may be said to do what they were forced to; for they were drove out of their native habitation, heaven; they were turned out of it, and cast down to hell; see ( 2 Peter 2:4 ) . And this their habitation, which they left, or fell from, or they were cast out of, is by the Jews frequently called the place of their holiness, or their holy place F7.

He hath reserved in everlasting chains, under darkness;
by these "everlasting chains" may be meant the power and providence of God over them, which always abide upon them; or their sins, and the guilt of them upon their consciences, under which they are continually held; or the decrees and purposes of God concerning their final punishment and destruction, which are immutable and irreversible, and from which there is no freeing themselves:, the phrase, under darkness, may refer to the chains, as in ( 2 Peter 2:4 ) ; where they are called "chains of darkness"; either because the power, providence, and purposes of God are invisible; so the Syriac version reads, "in unknown chains"; or because horror and black despair are the effects of sin, and its guilt, with which their consciences are continually filled: or it may denote the place and state where they are, either in the darkness of the air, or in the dark parts of the earth, or in hell, where is utter darkness, even blackness of darkness; or that they are under the power of sin, which is darkness, and without the light of God's countenance, or any spiritual knowledge, or comfort: and they are "reserved" in these chains, and under this darkness; or "in prison", as the Arabic version renders it; which denotes the custody of them, and their continuance in it, in which they are kept by Jesus Christ, who can bind and loose Satan at his pleasure; and it shows that they are not as yet in full torment, but are like malefactors that are kept in prison, until the assize comes: so these are laid in chains, and kept in custody

unto the judgment of the great day;
that is, the future and last "judgment" of men and devils, which is certain, and will be universal, and executed with the strictest justice: this is called "a day", which is fixed by God, though unknown to men and angels; and because of the evidence and quick dispatch of things, the matters judged will be as clear as the day, and finished at once; and a great one, for the Judge will appear in great glory; great things will be done, the dead will be raised, and all nations will be gathered together, and the process will be with great solemnity; the thrones will be set, the books opened, the several sentences pronounced, and, all punctually executed; the judgment of the great day is the same the Jews call (abr anyd Mwy) , "the day of the great judgment" F8. This account shows the imprisoned state of the devils, that they are not their own lords, and cannot do as they would; they are under restraints, and in chains, and not to be feared; which must be a great mortification to their proud and malicious spirits: and since this is the case of fallen angels, what severity may be expected from God against the opposers of the truths of the Gospel?

their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere

It fits right here like a glove:

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.


Revelation 12:7-9 
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world ; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Blessings
AD

[pilgrim]

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Quote from: you asked
their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere


One slight correction; I didn’t ask but made a statement.
You say of my remark above:

It fits right here like a glove:

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world ; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

I believe you have taken things out of context and misapplied them.
The remarks of Peter and Jude were of things named in Gen. 6. Your quote from Rev. 12 was of things yet future at the end of the tribulation where it was also said that after the war in heaven Satan and his angeld no longer had a place in heaven.

 I think the Lord’s words about Satan falling from heaven was of the same time; a conclusion of the war in heaven. The episode of Job shows that Satan still has at least some access to heaven, but his being cast out is yet future.

As to the remarks about the sinning angels and their punishment, I give the brother one thing, he sure has a great imagination.

Quoting from my post and your answer.

Quote from: you said
So it seems pretty clear that God destroyed the earth because of what man was doing, not angels. The earth belongs to man, not angels. Without exception, every thing they thought and intended to do was evil, and it seems as though it is about that way again.

And you answer:

I totally agree with this statement, the angels had nothing to do with this, they are not mention in Gen 6.

Let me clear up what I said. I didn’t say the angels had nothing to do with it. I said it was the offspring of angels and women; the Nephilim’s who caused the corruption of mankind, not the angels directly. The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment. So it was not them who directly caused the corruption of mankind since there is nothing whatever to suggest that anyone in hell has anything to do with what goes on on earth. As to them not being mentioned in Gen. 6, I guess we just have a different view of who the sons of God were.

One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh.

In His grace

pilgrim

[admin]

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Do you think Christ was lying when He said, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning"? I assume you're going NO and that he and his angels only fell from God's favor because of their sin but Satan is still allowed to be in God's presents without being summon by God. 

Job lived after the flood so I assume that your statement, " The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment". dose not apply to Satan.

I wonder if you believe that the demons that Christ confronted are Satan's angles or a third form of being.



One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. (I gave you your answer  with the question that you could not answer- Pygmies) But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh. (Apparently you didn't read my post)




Iron sharpens Iron

AD

[pilgrim]

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Do you think Christ was lying when He said, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning"? I assume you're going NO and that he and his angels only fell from God's favor because of their sin but Satan is still allowed to be in God's presents without being summon by God.

Concerning “would I think Christ was lying,” I would not ask you such a question, so I will not answer you on that one.

Job lived after the flood so I assume that your statement, " The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment". dose not apply to Satan.

Of course not.

I wonder if you believe that the demons that Christ confronted are Satan's angles or a third form of being.

Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it.

One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. (I gave you your answer with the question that you could not answer- Pygmies) But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh. (Apparently you didn't read my post)

I haven’t the time to answer that. Pygmies have nothing to do with the discussion. And you still haven’t answered my simple legitimate question with a simple or any other answer. If you didn’t understand my answer and explanation before, you wouldn’t a second time either.

Once more I will ask why you refused to answer my question why you will not post my study on the rapture. You said it had to be under 20.000 words so I reduced it to 18.442 and reposted and still it was rejected with the explanation that there is a maximum of 20.00 which even I can understand.

Would you please explain not only for my benefit, but also for the readers? It is a serious study of things very important to believers who are concerned about the subject as to whether it is true or not. Paul spoke of it the “blessed hope.”

In His grace

pilgrim

[admin]

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Concerning “would I think Christ was lying,” I would not ask you such a question, so I will not answer you on that one.

Of course not.

Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it.

I haven’t the time to answer that. Pygmies have nothing to do with the discussion. And you still haven’t answered my simple legitimate question with a simple or any other answer. If you didn’t understand my answer and explanation before, you wouldn’t a second time either.

Once more I will ask why you refused to answer my question why you will not post my study on the rapture. You said it had to be under 20.000 words so I reduced it to 18.442 and reposted and still it was rejected with the explanation that there is a maximum of 20.00 which even I can understand.

Would you please explain not only for my benefit, but also for the readers? It is a serious study of things very important to believers who are concerned about the subject as to whether it is true or not. Paul spoke of it the “blessed hope.”

In His grace

pilgrim

I like to answer your last question first.  I have no idea why you are unable to post your post, unless the information you're giving me is incorrect.  The board max is set at 20000 characters, that is a fact that speculation, it is accurate and true.



Now why you cannot see the relationship of my question about pygmies and relationship of giants coming from the race of two people (Seth and Cain) is incomprehensible to me.

"Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it."

In an earlier post you were telling me that the fallen Angels have been confined to hell, but I get from your above quote it appears that you actually do not believe that.  If the fallen Angels were confined to hell, how did they confront Christ here on earth?  It is also very clear that these demons cannot exist without a host body.  And as we see in the Scriptures, this body can be human or animal.  Now if these demons are in fact, the sons of God referred to in Genesis and are here on earth, then why are they not still interacting with the flash of humans and creating an offspring of giants?

Last year, on another board that I manage you became frustrated because people were using logic to refute your distorted view of Scripture.  At that time, you requested that I delete your account, and I did so reluctantly.  I now read the same frustration in your last post as I saw on the other board. 
I hope that the use of simple logic is not shaking your faith today.  The Scriptures are only a mystery to those that have not been elected to understand them.  Christ explained this when his disciples asked him why he spoke in parables.

In His Word Is Life
AD

[pilgrim]

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AD asks,

Now why you cannot see the relationship of my question about pygmies and relationship of giants coming from the race of two people (Seth and Cain) is incomprehensible to me.

I do not see how the pygmies got into this discussion. The question was whether or not it was angels who created a race of hybrids, and showed that Peter and Jude both addressed the question and identified the sons of God as being fallen angels, instead of the offspring of Cain that transgressed.

I can only guess that your pygmies business was to prove that the mixture was simply between Cain and Seth’s offspring. If not, why don’t you explain what the pygmies have to do with it? That there are pygmies proves nothing, and has nothing to do with Gen. 6. I don’t think either of us know where they came from.

You say:

In an earlier post you were telling me that the fallen Angels have been confined to hell, but I get from your above quote it appears that you actually do not believe that.

Well, I certainly would not say something I didn’t believe. That would make me a liar. Again, the angels in question were those who cohabited with women and produce a race of giants. Nowhere did I say all fallen angels were involved in the Gen. 6 problem. The discussion was about Gen. 6 angels, remember?

You say:

Last year, on another board that I manage you became frustrated because people were using logic to refute your distorted view of Scripture.

Again. Why don’t you explain to the people what my distorted view of Scripture was, or else you are not giving me even a chance of defending myself and you are leaving them in the dark also.

At that time, you requested that I delete your account, and I did so reluctantly. I now read the same frustration in your last post as I saw on the other board.

I would appreciate it AD if you would give an explanation of the above so the readers can decide for themselves who was frustrated rather than asking them to accept your slander of me. Twice now you have called my faith into question. I really think that we should keep the personals out of our discussions AD. We are supposed to be discussing passages of Scripture, not whether I use logic or not and whether other people think I am frustrated or not.

You say:

Last year, on another board that I manage you became frustrated because people were using logic to refute your distorted view of Scripture.

And finally you say:

I hope that the use of simple logic is not shaking your faith today.

Well, not really, I think my faith is increased by my logic such as it is.

The Scriptures are only a mystery to those that have not been elected to understand them. Christ explained this when his disciples asked him why he spoke in parables.

If you say so AD.

Why don’t we call it quits on this one AD? This is beginning to get nasty and I want no part of such.

If you so desire I will refrain from anymore posts. I really wanted to show the Lord’s people some of the things I think the Lord has opened up for me and let them decide for themselves whether or not my conclusions are correct. I am sorry if I have in any way offended you AD, that certainly wasn’t my intentions.

One day the Lord said:

“"…I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.”

That is a very sobering thought for me since I am going on 82 now and I have spoke an awful lot of idle words, but I also know the Lord is very compassionate and patient with me and still loves me and I know he loves you also.

May the Lord bless you in your good work here on this site.

In His grace

pilgrim

[admin]

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I can only guess that your pygmies business was to prove that the mixture was simply between Cain and Seth’s offspring.

Bingo, that is what the whole video was about.

Well, I certainly would not say something I didn’t believe. That would make me a liar. Again, the angels in question were those who cohabited with women and produce a race of giants. Nowhere did I say all fallen angels were involved in the Gen. 6 problem. The discussion was about Gen. 6 angels, remember?

Which means that you believe there are at least two groups of fallen angels and brings to question do you believe that angels continue to fall today.

Again. Why don’t you explain to the people what my distorted view of Scripture was, or else you are not giving me even a chance of defending myself and you are leaving them in the dark also.

Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4

I would appreciate it AD if you would give an explanation of the above so the readers can decide for themselves who was frustrated rather than asking them to accept your slander of me. Twice now you have called my faith into question.(?) I really think that we should keep the personals out of our discussions AD. We are supposed to be discussing passages of Scripture, not whether I use logic or not and whether other people think I am frustrated or not.

You're the one that asked to be removed because you could not refute another poster, so why don't you give the explanation.

Why don’t we call it quits on this one AD? This is beginning to get nasty and I want no part of such.

If you so desire I will refrain from anymore posts. I really wanted to show the Lord’s people some of the things I think the Lord has opened up for me and let them decide for themselves whether or not my conclusions are correct. I am sorry if I have in any way offended you AD, that certainly wasn’t my intentions.
One day the Lord said:

“"…I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.”

That is a very sobering thought for me since I am going on 82 now and I have spoke an awful lot of idle words, but I also know the Lord is very compassionate and patient with me and still loves me and I know he loves you also.

And I am 65 and run 17 domains, and I do not demand anything from anyone.

I have had many people disagree with me over the years and understand that this is the nature of humans. Both sides of this discussion are based on supposition because we are not sure who is being referred to as sons of God. Most believe that they are descendants of Seth, you don't and I respect that. You obviously do not respect my belief.


Matthew 5:9 CSB
Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

Luke 20:36 CSB
For they cannot die anymore, because they are like angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.

Galatians 3:26 CSB
for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus

You have made up your mind that logic has nothing to do with this discussion which is the question on who were the sons of God but the Scriptures tell us that you could be wrong.

Blessings
AD