Bible Talk > Bible Study
(Gen 6:1-4) Sons of God, Daughters of Man and Giants
admin:
--- Quote from: you said ---So it seems pretty clear that God destroyed the earth because of what man was doing, not angels. The earth belongs to man, not angels. Without exception, every thing they thought and intended to do was evil, and it seems as though it is about that way again.
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I totally agree with this statement , the angels had nothing to do with this, they are not mention in Gen 6.
--- Quote from: you said ---As to my conclusions being a theory, I didn’t think I was giving a theory. I think Peter and Jude were rather clear about who they were talking about when they said angels had gone after different flesh (that of women) in contrast to flesh of angels. If they were not addressing Gen. 6, then their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere.
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Jude 6 says "angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has bkept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,"
2 Pet 2:4 says For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment
Gill gives a good commentary on your selected text.
--- Quote ---Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate
Or "principality"; that holy, honourable, and happy condition, in which they were created; for they were created in perfect holiness and righteousness, stood in the relation of sons to God, and were, for the lustre of their nature, comparable to the morning stars; they were among the thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers; were a superior rank of creatures to men, and who beheld the face, and enjoyed the presence of God; but this estate they kept not, for being mutable creatures, one of them first sinning, the rest were drawn into it by him, and so were not what they were before, nor in the same estate, or place:
but left their own habitation;
by attempting to rise higher; or by quitting their station and posts of honour, being unwilling to be subject to God, and especially to the Son of God, who was to assume human nature, and in it be above them, which they could not bear; and by gathering together in a body, in another place, with Satan at the head of them; though this may be considered as a part of their punishment, and they may be said to do what they were forced to; for they were drove out of their native habitation, heaven; they were turned out of it, and cast down to hell; see ( 2 Peter 2:4 ) . And this their habitation, which they left, or fell from, or they were cast out of, is by the Jews frequently called the place of their holiness, or their holy place F7.
He hath reserved in everlasting chains, under darkness;
by these "everlasting chains" may be meant the power and providence of God over them, which always abide upon them; or their sins, and the guilt of them upon their consciences, under which they are continually held; or the decrees and purposes of God concerning their final punishment and destruction, which are immutable and irreversible, and from which there is no freeing themselves:, the phrase, under darkness, may refer to the chains, as in ( 2 Peter 2:4 ) ; where they are called "chains of darkness"; either because the power, providence, and purposes of God are invisible; so the Syriac version reads, "in unknown chains"; or because horror and black despair are the effects of sin, and its guilt, with which their consciences are continually filled: or it may denote the place and state where they are, either in the darkness of the air, or in the dark parts of the earth, or in hell, where is utter darkness, even blackness of darkness; or that they are under the power of sin, which is darkness, and without the light of God's countenance, or any spiritual knowledge, or comfort: and they are "reserved" in these chains, and under this darkness; or "in prison", as the Arabic version renders it; which denotes the custody of them, and their continuance in it, in which they are kept by Jesus Christ, who can bind and loose Satan at his pleasure; and it shows that they are not as yet in full torment, but are like malefactors that are kept in prison, until the assize comes: so these are laid in chains, and kept in custody
unto the judgment of the great day;
that is, the future and last "judgment" of men and devils, which is certain, and will be universal, and executed with the strictest justice: this is called "a day", which is fixed by God, though unknown to men and angels; and because of the evidence and quick dispatch of things, the matters judged will be as clear as the day, and finished at once; and a great one, for the Judge will appear in great glory; great things will be done, the dead will be raised, and all nations will be gathered together, and the process will be with great solemnity; the thrones will be set, the books opened, the several sentences pronounced, and, all punctually executed; the judgment of the great day is the same the Jews call (abr anyd Mwy) , "the day of the great judgment" F8. This account shows the imprisoned state of the devils, that they are not their own lords, and cannot do as they would; they are under restraints, and in chains, and not to be feared; which must be a great mortification to their proud and malicious spirits: and since this is the case of fallen angels, what severity may be expected from God against the opposers of the truths of the Gospel?
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--- Quote from: you asked ---their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere
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It fits right here like a glove:
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world ; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Blessings
AD
pilgrim:
Quote from: you asked
their remarks doesn’t fit anywhere
One slight correction; I didn’t ask but made a statement.
You say of my remark above:
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It fits right here like a glove:
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world ; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
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I believe you have taken things out of context and misapplied them.
The remarks of Peter and Jude were of things named in Gen. 6. Your quote from Rev. 12 was of things yet future at the end of the tribulation where it was also said that after the war in heaven Satan and his angeld no longer had a place in heaven.
I think the Lord’s words about Satan falling from heaven was of the same time; a conclusion of the war in heaven. The episode of Job shows that Satan still has at least some access to heaven, but his being cast out is yet future.
As to the remarks about the sinning angels and their punishment, I give the brother one thing, he sure has a great imagination.
Quoting from my post and your answer.
Quote from: you said
So it seems pretty clear that God destroyed the earth because of what man was doing, not angels. The earth belongs to man, not angels. Without exception, every thing they thought and intended to do was evil, and it seems as though it is about that way again.
And you answer:
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I totally agree with this statement, the angels had nothing to do with this, they are not mention in Gen 6.
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Let me clear up what I said. I didn’t say the angels had nothing to do with it. I said it was the offspring of angels and women; the Nephilim’s who caused the corruption of mankind, not the angels directly. The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment. So it was not them who directly caused the corruption of mankind since there is nothing whatever to suggest that anyone in hell has anything to do with what goes on on earth. As to them not being mentioned in Gen. 6, I guess we just have a different view of who the sons of God were.
One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh.
In His grace
pilgrim
admin:
Do you think Christ was lying when He said, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning"? I assume you're going NO and that he and his angels only fell from God's favor because of their sin but Satan is still allowed to be in God's presents without being summon by God.
Job lived after the flood so I assume that your statement, " The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment". dose not apply to Satan.
I wonder if you believe that the demons that Christ confronted are Satan's angles or a third form of being.
One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. (I gave you your answer with the question that you could not answer- Pygmies) But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh. (Apparently you didn't read my post)
Iron sharpens Iron
AD
pilgrim:
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Do you think Christ was lying when He said, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning"? I assume you're going NO and that he and his angels only fell from God's favor because of their sin but Satan is still allowed to be in God's presents without being summon by God.
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Concerning “would I think Christ was lying,” I would not ask you such a question, so I will not answer you on that one.
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Job lived after the flood so I assume that your statement, " The angels who started the whole thing were confined in hell and are still there awaiting judgment". dose not apply to Satan.
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Of course not.
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I wonder if you believe that the demons that Christ confronted are Satan's angles or a third form of being.
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Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it.
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One other thing, you didn’t answer me about how the copulation of the children of Seth and Cain could produce giants. (I gave you your answer with the question that you could not answer- Pygmies) But it is according to the Scriptures from Peter and Jude that the sons of God were angels who mixed with women; a different flesh. (Apparently you didn't read my post)
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I haven’t the time to answer that. Pygmies have nothing to do with the discussion. And you still haven’t answered my simple legitimate question with a simple or any other answer. If you didn’t understand my answer and explanation before, you wouldn’t a second time either.
Once more I will ask why you refused to answer my question why you will not post my study on the rapture. You said it had to be under 20.000 words so I reduced it to 18.442 and reposted and still it was rejected with the explanation that there is a maximum of 20.00 which even I can understand.
Would you please explain not only for my benefit, but also for the readers? It is a serious study of things very important to believers who are concerned about the subject as to whether it is true or not. Paul spoke of it the “blessed hope.”
In His grace
pilgrim
admin:
--- Quote from: pilgrim on April 04, 2011, 01:08:19 pm ---Concerning “would I think Christ was lying,” I would not ask you such a question, so I will not answer you on that one.
Of course not.
Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it.
I haven’t the time to answer that. Pygmies have nothing to do with the discussion. And you still haven’t answered my simple legitimate question with a simple or any other answer. If you didn’t understand my answer and explanation before, you wouldn’t a second time either.
Once more I will ask why you refused to answer my question why you will not post my study on the rapture. You said it had to be under 20.000 words so I reduced it to 18.442 and reposted and still it was rejected with the explanation that there is a maximum of 20.00 which even I can understand.
Would you please explain not only for my benefit, but also for the readers? It is a serious study of things very important to believers who are concerned about the subject as to whether it is true or not. Paul spoke of it the “blessed hope.”
In His grace
pilgrim
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I like to answer your last question first. I have no idea why you are unable to post your post, unless the information you're giving me is incorrect. The board max is set at 20000 characters, that is a fact that speculation, it is accurate and true.
Now why you cannot see the relationship of my question about pygmies and relationship of giants coming from the race of two people (Seth and Cain) is incomprehensible to me.
--- Quote ---"Satan doesn’t have any angles. Only demons; fallen angles. As to a third party, that is pure speculation that has never entered my mind apart from your mention. The Book says they were demons and that should settle it."
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In an earlier post you were telling me that the fallen Angels have been confined to hell, but I get from your above quote it appears that you actually do not believe that. If the fallen Angels were confined to hell, how did they confront Christ here on earth? It is also very clear that these demons cannot exist without a host body. And as we see in the Scriptures, this body can be human or animal. Now if these demons are in fact, the sons of God referred to in Genesis and are here on earth, then why are they not still interacting with the flash of humans and creating an offspring of giants?
Last year, on another board that I manage you became frustrated because people were using logic to refute your distorted view of Scripture. At that time, you requested that I delete your account, and I did so reluctantly. I now read the same frustration in your last post as I saw on the other board.
I hope that the use of simple logic is not shaking your faith today. The Scriptures are only a mystery to those that have not been elected to understand them. Christ explained this when his disciples asked him why he spoke in parables.
In His Word Is Life
AD
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