Author Topic: A question for Seven Day Adventist.  (Read 22682 times)

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John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2013, 10:12:13 am »
Excellent point! Man chose the days of the Sabbath.

BB

I am not an SDA and really have no dog in the fight, but you, Fat and Zant Law seemed to have missed the point that the Sabbath was created by God, not designated by the days men work...

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

You guys quote Ex 20 and say that it is only the seventh day after six days of work, but you are not quoting the entirety of the text...

Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day?  Interesting.

Fat

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2013, 11:17:15 am »
I am not an SDA and really have no dog in the fight, but you, Fat and Zant Law seemed to have missed the point that the Sabbath was created by God, not designated by the days men work...

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

You guys quote Ex 20 and say that it is only the seventh day after six days of work, but you are not quoting the entirety of the text...

Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day?  Interesting.
You seem to not understand how God designated that day as Holy. That day was designated as the seventh day after six days of work. That is what the Scriptures say. That is the day that our Lord blessed. Not the third day after 2 days of work, not the seventh day on a man made calendar, not the ninth day after 8 days of work, but the 7th after 6 days of work.

What does your bible tell you about how to keep this day Holy? I mean does it tell you to attend some sort of service at your synagogue, or worship is some special way?

biblebuf

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2013, 03:09:27 pm »
Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. NAS

John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2013, 10:37:08 am »
You seem to not understand how God designated that day as Holy. That day was designated as the seventh day after six days of work. That is what the Scriptures say. That is the day that our Lord blessed. Not the third day after 2 days of work, not the seventh day on a man made calendar, not the ninth day after 8 days of work, but the 7th after 6 days of work.

What does your bible tell you about how to keep this day Holy? I mean does it tell you to attend some sort of service at your synagogue, or worship is some special way?

Read right over it didn't you?

Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There was at this time one man and one woman and NO man made calendar.  In fact the man and woman had not been alive for 24 hours yet.  The point being that God sanctifed and hallowed a particular day independant of a man made calendar.  But if you insist, you may continue believing anything you wish to.

Actually, the bible does tell us how to keep the Sabbath holy...

Lev 23:2  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3  Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Notice that it is a Feast of the Lord?  A day of rest and a holy convocation...

convocation:

H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

A public meeting, an assembly that is holy...

holy:

H6944
קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

A sacred or holy meeting or assembly.

Fat

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2013, 12:14:56 pm »
Read right over it didn't you?

Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There was at this time one man and one woman and NO man made calendar.  In fact the man and woman had not been alive for 24 hours yet.  The point being that God sanctifed and hallowed a particular day independant of a man made calendar.  But if you insist, you may continue believing anything you wish to.

Actually, the bible does tell us how to keep the Sabbath holy...

Lev 23:2  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3  Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Notice that it is a Feast of the Lord?  A day of rest and a holy convocation...

convocation:

H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

A public meeting, an assembly that is holy...

holy:

H6944
קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

A sacred or holy meeting or assembly.


I am glad that you agree that we should not base the sabbath on a man made calendar and that it does not say 7th day of the week but the after 6 days of work. God blessed the seventh day.

Good verses to prove my point.

Leviticus 23:3
Holman Christian Standard
"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord wherever you live.

Assemble your family at your table and break bread, pray, and immerse yourselves in His Word  as Paul did with his friends. Acts 20:7

Now as we read farther we see that God did set some dates for specified Sabbaths.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.




biblebuf

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2013, 09:25:55 am »
Other than Shabbat, the name of the seventh day of the week, the Jewish calendar doesn't have names for the days of the week. The days of the week are simply known as first day, second day, third day, etc.

   1.   Yom Rishon - יום ראשון (abbreviated יום א׳) = "first day" (starting at preceding sunset)
   2.   Yom Sheni - יום שני (abbr. יום ב׳) = "second day"
   3.   Yom Shlishi - יום שלישי (abbr. יום ג׳) = "third day"
   4.   Yom Reviʻi - יום רביעי (abbr. יום ד׳) = "fourth day"
   5.   Yom Chamishi - יום חמישי (abbr. יום ה׳) = "fifth day"
   6.   Yom Shishi - יום ששי (abbr. יום ו׳) = "sixth day"
   7.   Yom Shabbat - יום שבת (abbr. יום ש׳) or more usually שבת - Shabbat

It's almost biblical isn't it?

John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2013, 12:14:48 pm »
Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. NAS

Read the whole chapter and you find the subject is judging a brother. 

Rom 14:4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

The questions that were being addressed were...

1) Vegetarianism...

Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21  It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

2) Fasting...

Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Fat

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2013, 12:47:30 pm »
Quote from: John 8:32
Read the whole chapter and you find the subject is judging a brother. 

That is exactly my point.

Let me play that again for you, Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Now you hold one day above another, good for you because so do I. You hold Saturday above the others and I hold the seventh day above the others. I hope your Saturday falls on the seventh day.

Quote from: BB
It's almost biblical isn't it?
Good point. Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)
 

biblebuf

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2013, 06:03:12 pm »
Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)
Did not know that.
That would start the next week early making the 7th day Friday. Unless of course you start your work week on tuesday, pre-1582, making the post-1582 sabbath on tuesday.

John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2013, 05:36:33 am »
Good point. Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)

Well I didn't know that because it isn’t true.  What actually happened is that in October of 1582AD the first week went like this…

Sunday  - September 30
Monday – October 1
Tuesday – October 2
Wednesday – October 3
Thursday – October 4
Friday – October 15
Saturday – October 16

Ten days were dropped from the year, but the weekly continuity was not disrupted.   The problem is not the seven day week, but rather the inaccuracy of the Julian calendar.  There was a great deal of debate over how to fix it…

“Thus, every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz., the abandonment of the seven-day week” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, p. 251, article “Lilius”).

“It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus, when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October. So in England, in 1752, Wednesday, 2 September, was followed by Thursday, 14 September” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 740, article “Chronology”).

So in this happy vein, I will ask you a did you know…

Did you know that this occurred again in  1752 in the month of September?  The first week of September looked like this…

Sunday – August 30
Monday – August 31
Tuesday – September 1
Wednesday – September 2
Thursday – September 14
Friday - September 15
Saturday – September 16

Again, 12 days were dropped from the calendar, but the weekly cycle was not changed or interrupted. 


“In spite of all of our dickerings with the calendar, it is patent that the human race never lost the septenary [seven-day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, through the ages, without a single lapse.”

Dr. Totten of New Haven, Connecticut—Professor of Astronomy, Yale University
(www.tagnet.org/llt/science.htm)


“It is a strange fact that even today there is a great deal of confusion concerning the question of so-called ‘lost time.’ Alterations that have been made to the calendar in the past have left the impression that time has actually been lost. In point of fact, of course, these adjustments were made to bring the calendar into closer agreement with the natural [solar] year. Now, unfortunately, this supposed ‘lost time’ is still being used to throw doubt upon the unbroken cycle of the Seventh-day Sabbath that God inaugurated at the Creation. I am glad I can add the witness of my scientific training to the irrevocable nature of the weekly cycle.

“Having been time computer at Greenwich [England Observatory] for many years, I can testify that all our days are in God’s absolute control—relentlessly measured by the daily rotation of the earth on its axis. This daily period of rotation does not vary one-thousandth part of a second in thousands of years. Also, the year is a very definite number of days. Consequently, it can be said that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle” (Frank Jeffries, Statement [Dr. Jeffries was Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]).

Fat

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2013, 09:50:17 am »
John,

So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)

From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"

I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?


Quote from: John
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day?  Interesting.

So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?



John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2013, 10:56:05 am »
John,

So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)

From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"

I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?


So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?

What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation?  You are trying to argue technicalities attempting to save a lost position.  I am not championing any calendar, you are creating false windmills to tilt at.

Of course you know it is sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening.  That was established at creation...

Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

and reaffirmed here...

Lev 23:32  It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Scripture shows that the Sabbath is the seventh day, it was sanctified (set apart) by God, not man.  It begins at sunset and ends at sunset.  I find it interesting, any time there is a discussion about the Ten Commandments, everyone thinks they are great and wonderful and should be done, all except for that fourth one.  It is the one that most refuse to do.

John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2013, 11:01:21 am »
Not sure who this website represents, I stumbled on to it and the common sense instruction seemed most appropriate for Arctic and Antarctic conditions...

http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/when-does-the-bible-sabbath-begin-and-end.html

John 8:32

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2013, 11:02:36 am »
John,

So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)

From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"

I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?


So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?

So now, when do you worship and what annual days do you dedicate to God?  Please use scripture to validate them.

Fat

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Re: A question for Seven Day Adventist.
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2013, 12:29:10 pm »
What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation?  You are trying to argue technicalities attempting to save a lost position.  I am not championing any calendar, you are creating false windmills to tilt at.

Of course you know it is sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening.  That was established at creation...

Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

and reaffirmed here...

Lev 23:32  It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Scripture shows that the Sabbath is the seventh day, it was sanctified (set apart) by God, not man.  It begins at sunset and ends at sunset.  I find it interesting, any time there is a discussion about the Ten Commandments, everyone thinks they are great and wonderful and should be done, all except for that fourth one.  It is the one that most refuse to do.

So you are not going to set your Sabbath by the Gregorian calendar, and you agree that the Sabbath (the 7th day) starts at night fall on the 6th day.  So John how do you handle no sunset for 82 days?

Quote from: John
What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation?

Why don't you show me your scripture for this John.

You say that I argue technicalities but that is exactly what you are doing, as did the Pharisees.

6 days of work and the 7th day of rest, it so simple.