A question for Seven Day Adventist.

[Fat]

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it says the seventh day is the day of rest which happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday ,which isreal has kept since they were shown ,or do you disagree ?

As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.

That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.

[philer]

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As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.

That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.

do you have anything to support they did not keep the sabbath on the same day since they were shown it by GOD? or is it speculation that because they had a different calendar that they forgot which was the last sabbath they kept and what day the next sabbath would fall on? are you suggesting that isrealites changed the sabbath day to a different day? i sincerely think that would not be likely ,they may have accepted the calendar change,but their holy days including the weekly sabbath would still be kept according to the hebrew calendar but would fall on different days of the babylonian calendar much like today with the gregorian calendar, the calendar may be different but the weekly sabbath would be easily maintained based on the 6 days of work and seventh day of rest. some have tried to suggest the same idea before but its simply not true.

[philer]

• 

As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.

That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.

We can also go to the new testament for validation that the sabbath day was correct. We have christ to give us that validation,being the lord of the sabbath ,would know what day it was. He kept the weekly sabbath, he in no wise instructed them they were keeping the wrong day , otherwise they would have questioned why he was keeping the wrong day,and he would have also instructed them they had forgotten or mistakenly kept the wrong day. so i think its quite clear that they had not forgotten or the babylonian captivity had caused them to forget or not know.

[Fat]

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do you have anything to support they did not keep the sabbath on the same day since they were shown it by GOD? or is it speculation that because they had a different calendar that they forgot which was the last sabbath they kept and what day the next sabbath would fall on? are you suggesting that isrealites changed the sabbath day to a different day? i sincerely think that would not be likely ,they may have accepted the calendar change,but their holy days including the weekly sabbath would still be kept according to the hebrew calendar but would fall on different days of the babylonian calendar much like today with the gregorian calendar, the calendar may be different but the weekly sabbath would be easily maintained based on the 6 days of work and seventh day of rest. some have tried to suggest the same idea before but its simply not true.

The Hebrew calendar is not a weekly calendar, and you might what to ask that question to the Prophet Jeremiah who wrote: And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth; He has destroyed His appointed meeting place. The LORD has caused to be forgotten The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion, And He has despised king and priest In the indignation of His anger.

Is interesting in your attack on the Bible you continually refer to the Babylonian lunar calendar as part of your evidence.

Israel was by no means good about keeping the Sabbath.

isaiah 1:12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts ? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies - I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean ; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight . Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good ; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.

Even in the wilderness.

Ezekiel 20:10 "So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12 "Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live ; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. 14 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands, 16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols. 17 "Yet My eye spared them rather than destroying them, and I did not cause their annihilation in the wilderness. 18 "I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God ; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. 20 'Sanctify My sabbaths ; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

[Fat]

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We can also go to the new testament for validation that the sabbath day was correct. We have christ to give us that validation,being the lord of the sabbath ,would know what day it was. He kept the weekly sabbath, he in no wise instructed them they were keeping the wrong day , otherwise they would have questioned why he was keeping the wrong day,and he would have also instructed them they had forgotten or mistakenly kept the wrong day. so i think its quite clear that they had not forgotten or the babylonian captivity had caused them to forget or not know.

I am going to type real slow maybe this way you understand what I'm saying. The Jews were not violating the Sabbath day because they worked six days and rested on the seventh. You are the one that is putting in Friday and Saturday into this equation it does not exist in the Bible!

[philer]

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The Hebrew calendar is not a weekly calendar, and you might what to ask that question to the Prophet Jeremiah who wrote: And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth; He has destroyed His appointed meeting place. The LORD has caused to be forgotten The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion, And He has despised king and priest In the indignation of His anger.

Is interesting in your attack on the Bible you continually refer to the Babylonian lunar calendar as part of your evidence.

Israel was by no means good about keeping the Sabbath.

isaiah 1:12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts ? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies - I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean ; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight . Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good ; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.

Even in the wilderness.

Ezekiel 20:10 "So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12 "Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live ; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. 14 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands, 16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols. 17 "Yet My eye spared them rather than destroying them, and I did not cause their annihilation in the wilderness. 18 "I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God ; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. 20 'Sanctify My sabbaths ; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'

i can't believe what i am reading what your trying tosaybut common sense kicking in here again,there are days in the calendar,there are obviously atleast 7 days in that calendar. What you consistanly seem to be overlooking is there are 6 days of work and the seventh a day of rest,and it is irrelavent which calendar you use this will always remain to be true, counting backwards or forwards is childs play, there is no way to miss which day the sabbath is,no matter what day it fell on in the babylonian calender or any calendar for that matter, . I am supporting the bible i don't know why you think i am attacking it. I am not referring to the babylonian calender as evidence, or gregorian only the calendar found mentioned by GOD,which was not even the egyptian calendar. No you are correct they could not keep the sabbath perfectly ,in fact NO man can,but they did know which day it was. I'm glad you pointed to isaiah as a reference one of my favorite books and if you notice isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 58:14 Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride upon the heights of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it."  that's a great promise regarding the sabbath.  But quoting you fat when i asked "so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?" you answered "That's ridiculous nobody said that it all, they work six days and the seventh day they rested, that's what God instructed him to do. ",so you agree with me,so what is it then you are trying to say?

[philer]

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I am going to type real slow maybe this way you understand what I'm saying. The Jews were not violating the Sabbath day because they worked six days and rested on the seventh. You are the one that is putting in Friday and Saturday into this equation it does not exist in the Bible!

i will type slow as well ,please read carefully what i am saying,agreed it doesn't say friday or saturday in the bible,we agree,and i never said it was,so we agree so you cannot continue to say im putting it in the bible,what i am saying is isreal has kept the sabbath on the seventh day as shown to them by GOD. That day happens to fall on friday sunset to saturday sunset,do you follow me,or in other words the sabbath day of rest also could fall on any other day of any given calendar but in the gregorian calendar we currently use it falls on sunset friday to sunset saturday, is this making it clearer,im not saying fridays in the bible,im saying the sabbath happens to fall on friday sunset,and if you scroll back through all my posts it is consistent with what i have said all along. no where did i say friday was in the bible where did you read that in my posts?

[Fat]

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i can't believe what i am reading what your trying tosaybut common sense kicking in here again,there are days in the calendar,there are obviously atleast 7 days in that calendar. What you consistanly seem to be overlooking is there are 6 days of work and the seventh a day of rest,and it is irrelavent which calendar you use this will always remain to be true, counting backwards or forwards is childs play, there is no way to miss which day the sabbath is,no matter what day it fell on in the babylonian calender or any calendar for that matter, . I am supporting the bible i don't know why you think i am attacking it. I am not referring to the babylonian calender as evidence, or gregorian only the calendar found mentioned by GOD,which was not even the egyptian calendar. No you are correct they could not keep the sabbath perfectly ,in fact NO man can,but they did know which day it was. I'm glad you pointed to isaiah as a reference one of my favorite books and if you notice isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 58:14 Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride upon the heights of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it."  that's a great promise regarding the sabbath.  But quoting you fat when i asked "so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?" you answered "That's ridiculous nobody said that it all, they work six days and the seventh day they rested, that's what God instructed him to do. ",so you agree with me,so what is it then you are trying to say?

i will type slow as well ,please read carefully what i am saying,agreed it doesn't say friday or saturday in the bible,we agree,and i never said it was,so we agree so you cannot continue to say im putting it in the bible,what i am saying is isreal has kept the sabbath on the seventh day as shown to them by GOD. That day happens to fall on friday sunset to saturday sunset,do you follow me,or in other words the sabbath day of rest also could fall on any other day of any given calendar but in the gregorian calendar we currently use it falls on sunset friday to sunset saturday, is this making it clearer,im not saying fridays in the bible,im saying the sabbath happens to fall on friday sunset,and if you scroll back through all my posts it is consistent with what i have said all along. no where did i say friday was in the bible where did you read that in my posts?

We will try it again the Bible does not connect the Sabbath with specific days of the week or month. The Bible ties the Sabbath with a period of work. Observing the sabbath does not mean observing the calendar.

So we both agree that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agree that the Bible says the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agreed that the first six days are days of work. We agreed this is what the Bible says.

'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest,

We disagree on your authority to add to the Scriptures under the guise of tradition. As did the Pharisees, the church of Rome, Jehovah's Witnesses, the seven day Adventist, Church of Latter Day Saints, the international Church of Christ and many others have done.

2 timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ;

[Zant Law]

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Phat,
I think you are right in Reply #4. 

[philer]

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We will try it again the Bible does not connect the Sabbath with specific days of the week or month. The Bible ties the Sabbath with a period of work. Observing the sabbath does not mean observing the calendar.

So we both agree that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agree that the Bible says the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agreed that the first six days are days of work. We agreed this is what the Bible says.

'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest,

We disagree on your authority to add to the Scriptures under the guise of tradition. As did the Pharisees, the church of Rome, Jehovah's Witnesses, the seven day Adventist, Church of Latter Day Saints, the international Church of Christ and many others have done.

2 timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ;

im not sure how you assume i am adding to the scriptures a guise of tradition as you put it. GOD showed isreal which day the sabbath was,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath day,it was a specific day and that would be the same day after the next six days and so forth ,and that would never change,and never has to this day. this is not a tradition of men,this is what GOD showed man. which day is that day? do we know? yes we do it just happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday of the calendar we use today,it is not a day that will move or change,if we were to adopt a new calendar and replace saturday with some other name it would still be the same day with a different name,and after that next 6 days would be another sabbath. How do we know even during captivity they knew which day it was,how were they able to know after the captivity? The sons of zadok, many people are not familiar with them,they had never stopped keeping the sabbath,even during the captivity ,and taught isreal after the captivity the law ,including the sabbath. What i think you are trying to imply if i understand you correctly is ,the sabbath doesn't fall on a certain day is that correct? i will try it from that approach, if it does fall on a certain day which day is it fat?

[Fat]

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im not sure how you assume i am adding to the scriptures a guise of tradition as you put it. GOD showed isreal which day the sabbath was,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath day,it was a specific day and that would be the same day after the next six days and so forth ,and that would never change,and never has to this day. this is not a tradition of men,this is what GOD showed man. which day is that day? do we know? yes we do it just happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday of the calendar we use today,it is not a day that will move or change,if we were to adopt a new calendar and replace saturday with some other name it would still be the same day with a different name,and after that next 6 days would be another sabbath. How do we know even during captivity they knew which day it was,how were they able to know after the captivity?  The sons of zadok, many people are not familiar with them,they had never stopped keeping the sabbath,even during the captivity ,and taught isreal after the captivity the law ,including the sabbath. What i think you are trying to imply if i understand you correctly is ,the sabbath doesn't fall on a certain day is that correct? i will try it from that approach, if it does fall on a certain day which day is it fat?

According to your logic, since God quit giving out double portions mana there must be no more sabbath.

But according to the Bible, For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest.
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

[philer]

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According to your logic, since God quit giving out double portions mana there must be no more sabbath.

But according to the Bible, For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest.
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

no fat your misreading what i've said,because there were double portions the day before the sabbath the next day would be the sabbath,and after the next 6 days would be another,and so forth without end,and would remain. how did you get that i said there would be NO more sabbaths?. so im asking again. Do you think the sabbath falls on a certain day? and if so which day is it?

[Fat]

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no fat your misreading what i've said,because there were double portions the day before the sabbath the next day would be the sabbath,and after the next 6 days would be another,and so forth without end,and would remain. how did you get that i said there would be NO more sabbaths?.(Because you insinuate that first came manna and then came the Sabbath) so im asking again. Do you think the sabbath falls on a certain day?(And I am answering that question for the 50th time, yes it comes on the seventh day) and if so which day is it? (As prescribed in the Bible: For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest)

The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.

I'll give you the answers to your next four post to save time.

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest

[biblebuf]

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The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.

Excellent point! Man chose the days of the Sabbath.

BB

[philer]

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The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.

I'll give you the answers to your next four post to save time.

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest

your still not answering the question,perhaps im not being specific enough for you,which day does the sabbath fall on our current calendar? is that a clearer way to ask? as far as you think im insinuating about the mana and the sabbath, exodus 16:22 "And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. " ok so we see no insinuation its true twice as much mana on the sixth day,that means the seventh day was next and that is the sabbath,no insinuation it came before the sabbath. did you never read that?

what your doing is going back to when the sabbath began and applying the mana to that which i was not referring to,but if you wish to refer to when the sabbath actually began,yes GOD worked 6 days and rested and i agree predates the mana of exodus by hundreds of years. why you took what i said and went that direction with it is beyond me lol