Bible Talk > Bible Study
John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
admin:
--- Quote from: theMadJW on April 29, 2013, 08:38:42 am ---" I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board."
Do you even know what a "GHOST" is?
Why the Catholic Church used THAT word?
--- End quote ---
The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations
NWT “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven
I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.
theMadJW:
--- Quote from: biblebuf on April 29, 2013, 08:19:28 am ---John 8:58
NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””.
Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.”
Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16).
--- End quote ---
THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?
Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:
1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ?
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.
biblebuf:
--- Quote from: theMadJW on April 29, 2013, 08:51:22 am ---
THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?
Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:
1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ?
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.
--- End quote ---
So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.
John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”
Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.
Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.
theMadJW:
--- Quote from: admin on April 29, 2013, 08:49:41 am ---The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations
NWT “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven
I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.
--- End quote ---
Does that mean you will ban me for pointing out what God's Word says? Be my guest if your are that phony.
Truth will ALWAYS prevail; too bad you do not know that.
Question; Why did Jesus say blasphemies against HIM would be forgiven- but NOT against the holy spirit?
Does your church teach them Co-Supreme, Co-Equal?
"Ghost" is the word referring to the unseen 'immortal soul' of a 'dead' ,one that returns to earth to HAUNT PEOPLE.
When the RCC began, it used that term to terrify and mystify the highly superstitious masses.
"Holy"= set apart in purity
"Spirit"= "Wind, Breath" in the Hebrew and Greek, used by God to describe his form, those in heaven, and the unseen power he acts through.
We have been PROGRAMMED to read "holy spirit" as "the Holy Ghost-God" - instead of what it REALLY is- the Holy Breath (spirit) of God.
God, Christ, and others referred to it as "it"
God fills people with IT, pours it out, and even split IT into portions. (Num 11)
God manifests it ONLY as a glowing light- NEVER in human form- as He , Christ, and angels were.
IT has no name, is NEVER seen in any of the visions of God & Christ.
Jesus NEVER tells us to praise, or serve it.
So, admin- how HONEST will you be...with YOURSELF?
theMadJW:
--- Quote from: biblebuf on April 29, 2013, 08:59:49 am ---So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.
John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”
Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.
Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your NEXT example- but won't you stick with the FIRST until settled?
Or do you ACKNOWLEDGE having Jesus speaking e-bonics is deceptive?
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