Three Days and Three Nights

[rstrats]

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion proponents, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.  I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

[Fat]

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We have been down this road a number of times. I going to do a cut and paste from Gill's commentary.

To solve this difficulty, and set the matter in a clear light, let it be observed, that the three days and three nights, mean three natural days, consisting of day and night, or twenty four hours, and are what the Greeks call (nucyhmera) , "night days"; but the Jews have no other way of expressing them, but as here; and with them it is a well known rule, and used on all occasions, as in the computation of their feasts and times of mourning, in the observance of the passover, circumcision, and divers purifications, that (wlwkk Mwyh tuqm) , "a part of a day is as the whole"  and so, whatever was done before sun setting, or after, if but an hour, or ever so small a time, before or after it, it was reckoned as the whole preceding, or following day; and whether this was in the night part, or day part of the night day, or natural day, it mattered not, it was accounted as the whole night day: by this rule, the case here is easily adjusted; Christ was laid in the grave towards the close of the sixth day, a little before sun setting, and this being a part of the night day preceding, is reckoned as the whole; he continued there the whole night day following, being the seventh day; and rose again early on the first day, which being after sun setting, though it might be even before sun rising, yet being a part of the night day following, is to be esteemed as the whole; and thus the son of man was to be, and was three days and three nights in the grave; and which was very easy to be understood by the Jews; and it is a question whether Jonas was longer in the belly of the fish.

The phrase "three days and three nights, " Mat 12:40, was equivalent in Hebrew to the English "three days;" the Jews employing the expression "a day and a night" to denote our "day" of twentyfour hours. Nor did "three days, " 1Sa 30:13, literally "this third day, " according to their usage, necessarily include the whole of three days, but a part of three days, a continuous period including one whole day of twenty-four hours, and a portion of the day preceding it and the day following it. Compare Gen 7:12, 17 1Sa 30:12-13.

As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish. See Jon 1:17. The great fish was probably not a whale, the Greek is "sea monster, " but a white shark, which abounds abounds in the Mediterranean, and is said to swallow a horse whole. The miracle was the preservation of the life of Jonah during his living burial. This was a type of the burial and resurrection of Christ.

So shall the Son of man be three days and three nights. Jesus says (Mat 16:21) that he will "be raised again the third day." Hence, in Jewish usage the third day must mean the same as three days and three nights. It was and is customary with the Orientals to make any part of the day stand for the whole twenty-four hours. Compare Mat 16:21, Mar 8:31, 2Ch 10:5 and 2Ch 10:12, Est 4:16, Gen 7:4, Gen 7:12, Exo 24:18, Exo 34:28. A traveler in the East writes: "At length the tenth morning arrived--the tenth morning because, though we performed nominally ten days quarantine, yet it was, really, only eight days. We landed at nine o'clock in the evening of the first day, and were liberated at six o'clock in the morning of the tenth day, but it was held to be ten days according to the custom of the East." Christ was buried Friday evening, lay in the grave Saturday, and rose Sunday, parts of three days, rose "on the third day, " and was in the grave the space of time meant in eastern usage by three days and three nights.

P.S. If you count from thursday you end up with 4 days and 3 nights. Hope that helps.

[JB Horn]

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion proponents, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.  I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

Documentation LOL. Do you have any documentation that Christ died on a cross and not a stake?

Matthew 27:42 (Complete Jewish Bible) "He saved others, but he can't save himself!" "So he's King of Isra'el, is he? Let him come down now from the stake! Then we'll believe him!"

Luke 9:23 (Complete Jewish Bible)
Then to everyone he said, "If anyone wants to come after me, let him say `No' to himself, take up his execution-stake daily and keep following me.

ἡμέρα,n  \{hay-mer'-ah}
1) the day, used of the natural day, or the interval between  sunrise and sunset, as distinguished from and contrasted with  the night  1a) in the daytime  1b) metaph., "the day" is regarded as the time for abstaining from  indulgence, vice, crime, because acts of the sort are  perpetrated at night and in darkness  2) of the civil day, or the space of twenty four hours (thus  including the night)  2a) Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any  part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression  "three days and three nights" does not mean literally three  whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other  days.  3) of the last day of this present age, the day Christ will  return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment,  and perfect his kingdom  4) used of time in general, i.e. the days of his life. 

The whale (tou khtou). Sea-monster, huge fish. In Jonah 2:1 the LXX has khtei megalwi. "Three days and three nights" may simply mean three days in popular speech. Jesus rose "on the third day" ( Matthew 16:21 ), not "on the fourth day." It is just a fuller form for "after three days" ( Mark 8:31 ; Mark 10:34 ).

[rstrats]

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Fat,

re:  "We have been down this road a number of times."

Sorry.   I looked and couldn't find where my request for some actual writing had previously  been requested by someone else.  I wonder if you might identify one of the "number of times"  where it had been (requested)?

[Fat]

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Fat,

re:  "We have been down this road a number of times."

Sorry.   I looked and couldn't find where my request for some actual writing had previously  been requested by someone else.  I wonder if you might identify one of the "number of times"  where it had been (requested)?

The request for WRITING is nothing but a red-hearing, IMHO.

 

[rstrats]

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Fat,

re:  "The request for WRITING is nothing but a red-hearing, IMHO."

Your humble opinion is incorrect. I'm not trying to divert attention away from some other problem or matter. Proponents for a 6th day of the week crucifixion say that Matthew 12:40 is a common first century idiom where three nights can actually mean two nights.  If that is true, then I would think that there should be some writing from that period to prove the idiom assertion.  For the purpose of this topic, that is the only issue at hand that I am concerned with.  It is not a "red herring" for anything else. 

[Fat]

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Your humble opinion is incorrect. I'm not trying to divert attention away from some other problem or matter. Proponents for a 6th day of the week crucifixion say that Matthew 12:40 is a common first century idiom where three nights can actually mean two nights.  If that is true, then I would think that there should be some writing from that period to prove the idiom assertion.  For the purpose of this topic, that is the only issue at hand that I am concerned with.  It is not a "red herring" for anything else.

If that is true look at the Talmud Pesachim 4a

"a part of a day is equal to a whole"

Jewish laws of mourning, see the laws of "shiva", for an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_(Judaism)

[macuser]

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If that is true look at the Talmud Pesachim 4a

"a part of a day is equal to a whole"

Jewish laws of mourning, see the laws of "shiva", for an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_(Judaism)

You might mention that a day is 24 hours.

It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.

Unless of course God doesn't work at night. But then if He didn't work at night we would never get to the first day, would we 

[rstrats]

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Fat,

re:  "Jewish laws of mourning, see the laws of 'shiva', for an example."


I looked at the Wikipedia article and didn't see anything regarding the OP.  I wonder if you might explain why you think it is applicable?

[Fat]

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Fat,

re:  "Jewish laws of mourning, see the laws of 'shiva', for an example."


I looked at the Wikipedia article and didn't see anything regarding the OP.  I wonder if you might explain why you think it is applicable?

I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

May be this will help you out, but I doubt it.

Remember that the laws of Shiva were handed down orally from Rabbi to Rabbi, as part of the Oral Torah for 3300 years. Shiva is derived from Genesis 50:1-14

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/281589/jewish/Computing-the-Shiva-and-Sheloshim.htm
Burial at Twilight
When burial occurs late in the day, provided it takes place before nightfall (i.e., even during the approximately eighteen minutes between sunset and dark: the legal duration of bein hashemashot, or twilight), mourning should begin at the cemetery, a short distance from the grave itself. The mourners remove their shoes and then seat themselves on a stone or railing. Thus, while it may already be nighttime when they arrive at the home where shiva will be observed, the law considers that mourning was formally begun during daylight at the cemetery. That day is, therefore, counted as the first of the seven days of shiva. The mourners, however, should be informed that mourning technically began at the cemetery. (This is possible only if the mourner has not yet prayed the evening maariv service. If he has already prayed the service, shiva begins the next day.)

Thus, too, if one is notified of the burial of a relative at twilight, and he finds himself on the road, or in another public place, he should make formal mental note of the fact that his mourning has begun, and he is then permitted to count that day as the first of shiva, even though he was not able to remove his shoes and sit on the low bench-the formal recognition of shiva.

The Duration of Shiva
The seven days of mourning begin immediately after interment. They end on the morning of the seventh day after burial, immediately following the shacharit (morning) service. Those present extend condolences, and the mourner rises from his week of mourning. If no public shacharit service is held in the mourner's home shiva ends after the mourner has recited his private prayers, provided that it is after sunrise.
In computing the seven days, Jewish tradition follows the principle of considering a fraction of a day as a complete day. Thus, the day of burial is considered as the first day, even though interment may have been concluded only a few moments before nightfall. Thus, too, the seventh day is considered a full day even though mourning was observed for only a short time after sunrise. Two fractional days of mourning are counted as two whole days of Shiva.
To illustrate, if interment occurred on Wednesday, afternoon, Wednesday is the first day, Thursday the second, Friday the third, Saturday the fourth, Sunday the fifth, Monday the sixth, and Tuesday morning is the seventh and final day.


Also from the Pesachim 4a we see that that parrt of the day counts for the whole day.
For it is written, and in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised,and it was taught: The whole day is valid for circumcision,

[rstrats]

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Fat,

re:  "May be this will help you out, but I doubt it."



Your doubt is well founded because I don't see where the link provides writing from the first century or before that shows at least one instance of the use of a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights that absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specified number of days and/or at least a part of each one of the specified number of nights.

[Fat]

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Fat,

re:  "May be this will help you out, but I doubt it."



Your doubt is well founded because I don't see where the link provides writing from the first century or before that shows at least one instance of the use of a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights that absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specified number of days and/or at least a part of each one of the specified number of nights.

Like I said your post is a red herring. The Jews call it the oral Torah for a reason, Christ was a Jew and He knew the Shiva and how the any part of the day is counted as a full day. He refers to a day in Genesis, as both evening and morning. Yes Mac is right God worked a full day which is a day and night.

So the evening and the morning were the first day.
So the evening and the morning were the second day.
So the evening and the morning were the third day.
So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So Shiva tells us two fractional days of mourning are counted as two whole days of Shiva, that is a Day and Night is counted by a fraction of a day.

I say again your request for these writings is a red herring because you cannot debate the actual question of three days and three nights. By asking such a pointless question you're somehow convincing yourself you're winning an argument, you are not.

Now you have posted this in a number of forum on the web and it appears you get some kind of perverse joy from angering people. I have no problem with dealing with that, as we see it often here and I am not quick to anger.

[JB Horn]

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I agree with Phat, you our putting up a red-herring. It is exactly like those who say show me where Christ ever preached against homosexuality. And what ever answer you give to show that Christ believed the law and that the New Testament confirmed Homosexuality to be a sin, they come back with, "that's does not answer the question I ask in the OP. Show me where Christ said He was against homosexuality".

Red-herring
Misdirection
All to be consumed by those of little or no knowledge of the bible.

[rstrats]

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Fat,

re:  "...your request for these writings is a red herring..."

JB Horn,

re:  "I agree with Phat, you our putting up a red-herring."



As I stated earlier, I absolutely am not misdirecting anything.   But since you are accussing me of doing that, just exactly from what do you think I am trying to misdirect?

[JB Horn]

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Fat,

re:  "...your request for these writings is a red herring..."

JB Horn,

re:  "I agree with Phat, you our putting up a red-herring."



As I stated earlier, I absolutely am not misdirecting anything. 

I am sorry but I cannot seem to find the earlier post where you stated that you were absolutely not misdirecting anything. Can you please give me the post number?