HOLY CONFIRMATION: The Sacrament of PENTECOST

[Fat]

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The following has been posted on a number of Bible forums on the Internet, the poster goes by the screen name of A. H. J. E. On the three forums I found it on, no one gave an answer concerning the misrepresentation of the Scripture.

HOLY CONFIRMATION: The Sacrament of PENTECOST


               "Jesus Christ instituted the sacrament of confirmation to
               more perfectly bind the baptized into the Church and enrich
               them with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. In the
               western Church, a bishop generally administers this sacrament
               to teenagers, although it can be given later. The sacrament
               includes a renewal of baptismal promises, reading of
               Scripture, and anointing of chrism oil on the forehead.

               The  sacrament of confirmation brings to completion the grace
               received at baptism, and strengthens those who receive it to
               spread and defend the faith by word and deed. Along with
               baptism and the Eucharist, the sacrament of confirmation
               completes the sacraments of Christian initiation. Those who
               are confirmed are "sealed" with the fullness of the Holy
               Spirit.

               Scripture mentions the sacrament of confirmation in
               several places. The author of Hebrews gives general
               instructions about confirmation when he writes about "the
               doctrine of baptisms and the laying on of hands, of the
               resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment." [see Heb.
               6:2 (DR)] In this case, the phrase "laying on of hands,"
               which was directed to the whole Hebrew community, refers to
               confirmation. This verse also refers to the cycle of life and
               its relationship to the sacraments --- baptism (beginning of
               life), confirmation (perfection of baptismal graces),
               resurrection and judgment (end of life).

               In the book of Acts, we read that the apostles at Jerusalem found out that
               the people of Samaria had not received the fullness of the
               Holy Spirit (Acts 8:14). In fact, the Scripture says the
               people of Samaria "had only been baptized in the name of the
               Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:16). But as we have seen in the section
               on baptism, when a person is baptized, they do receive the
               Holy Spirit. This means the baptized people of Samaria did
               not receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit until they were
               confirmed. Then the apostles "laid their hands on them, and
               they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:17). These verses are
               not about ordination because Luke is writing about the entire
               city of Samaria, and the apostles did not ordain entire
               cities. There is also nothing in these verses suggesting the
               people of Samaria had any teaching or other capacities in the
               Church.

               Later in Acts, Paul finds some disciples on his
               journey through Ephesus (Acts 19:1). When Paul discovers that
               these disciples believed in Jesus but were but were not yet
               baptized, Paul both baptizes them and lays hands on them to
               confer the sacrament of confirmation and to give them the
               Holy Spirit (see Acts 19:5-6). Baptism and confirmation were
               usually given together in the early Church, which is still
               the practice of the Eastern Catholic church today. Paul also
               tells the Ephesians that they "were sealed with the promised
               Holy Spirit" (Eph 1:13), and that they should "not grieve the
               Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of
               redemption" (Eph 4:30). In confirmation, just as the Father
               set His seal on Christ,* so we are sealed with the Holy
               Spirit in Christ and protected from spiritual harm.* [Jn
               6:27. See Rev 9:4; Rev 14:1; 22:4; Ez 9:4-6]"

 The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith, John Salza, pg. 109-110.

[macuser]

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Well I like to give it a shot here and point out a few inconsistencies. First of all if we look back a little earlier in the book of Acts, we see that the laying on of hands is not required to receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2: 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. …….

Then as we move further down Peter gives instructions that if you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, you will receive the gift of Holy Spirit.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren , what shall we do ?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Another point to consider, is that if the church baptized as directed by Christ this problem would not even exist. This is not three separate baptisms but one. Also this baptism is done correctly, by submersion, then it can only be accomplished with the laying on of hands. This of course does not occur with the mere sprinkling of water.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 And we also see in the teaching of John the Baptist that man is not worthy to baptize with the Holy Ghost. This baptism is a function of our Lord and Savior, our gift from the Father.

Luke 3:16
John answered , saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh , the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose : He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

 One thing you must remember, the gifts of the Holy Ghost are many and the very from Christian to Christian. Not all believers speak in tongues or prophesy. Also it should be clear that you can pray that you may receive gifts from the Holy Ghost. What I am saying is that all Christians have received the Holy Ghost from Christ's baptism, but not all Christians have received the gifts from the Holy Ghost.

We also see in Acts 10 that the gift of the Holy Ghost can be received even before baptism by water. This also shows us that baptism by water is not required for salvation.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished , as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized , which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

[Fat]

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So it is obvious that something was being done when the disciples laid on hands. If not baptism of the Holy Spirit then what was it?

Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is being sent to us to be our teacher and helper.

Could it be that the prayers are to bring the gifts of the Holy Spirit to full potential?

What also seems to be described in this article is the anointing of the individuals for a particular gift or ministry, not a baptizism.

iPhone post 

[Zant Law]

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In Acts 8:17 Simon the magician observed the laying of hands, and what was described as being the receiving of the Holy Ghost. But what exactly did Simon see that made him want to purchase this power of the laying on of hands? Was there something visible and discernible; and so something external, and not internal; otherwise they would have been out of Simon's reach, and would not have fallen under his notice; but Simon saw something, what?

[Fat]

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In Acts 8:17 Simon the magician observed the laying of hands, and what was described as being the receiving of the Holy Ghost. But what exactly did Simon see that made him want to purchase this power of the laying on of hands? Was there something visible and discernible; and so something external, and not internal; otherwise they would have been out of Simon's reach, and would not have fallen under his notice; but Simon saw something, what?

Interesting point and that raises a question, we see in both acts 2 and acts 10 where the Holy Ghost was received without the laying of hands, it was visible to the others present at these persons have become believers in the Word spoken by Peter. And that raises the question in "The Sacrament of PENTECOST" is there a visible sign that can be observed? Or is this sacrament invisible to the outside observers?