Who teaches sound doctrine?

[admin]

• 

This is a bible based board and with that in mind can we debate the deferent conflicting doctrines we see within the Christian community?

      1 Timothy 4:6 NAS

[A Good Minister's Discipline] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

      1 Timothy 6:3 NAS

If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

      2 Timothy 4:3 NAS

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine ; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

      Titus 1:9 NAS

holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

      Titus 2:1 NAS
[Duties of the Older and Younger] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

[Jack Koons]

• 

I personally believe we live in a day where most churches preach and teach a 'watered down gospel' of 'easy beliefism', and most Bible colleges are so busy promoting 'rationalism' through 'textual criticism' that even pastors don't really believe the Bible anymore. Therefore, false doctrine is on nearly every street corner.

Jack

[admin]

• 

I personally believe we live in a day where most churches preach and teach a 'watered down gospel' of 'easy beliefism', and most Bible colleges are so busy promoting 'rationalism' through 'textual criticism' that even pastors don't really believe the Bible anymore. Therefore, false doctrine is on nearly every street corner.

Jack

I agree.
Political correctness is a cancer in the Church.

[calluna]

• 

I agree.
Political correctness is a cancer in the Church.

Or is it a fashion of the world's church?

[Jack Koons]

• 

Calluna,

"Quote from: admin on Yesterday at 12:19:41 PM
I agree.
Political correctness is a cancer in the Church.

Or is it a fashion of the world's church?"

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm 'old school', there was a day when people actually went to church to hear the truth, even if it hurt to hear it. Today, what I hear are messages about how good people are, and how great they can be.

What happened to preaching on sin and getting right? It went out the window. Why? Because it is all about 1) money; and 2) numbers (of people). Please the crowd, and you won't get fired, it's just that simple!

Jack

[admin]

• 

Every time I get into this discussion I think of Rick Warren and his Seeker Friendly Church.


Warren says, (The Purpose-Driven Church)

Figure out what mood you want your service to project, and then create it. (p. 264); We start positive and end positive. (p. 271); We use humor in our services ... it is not a sin to help people feel good. (p. 272); Cultivate an informal, relaxed, and friendly atmosphere. (p. 272); We made a strategic decision to stop singing hymns in our seeker services. (p. 285); We have attracted thousands more because of our music. (p. 285); Saddleback now has a complete pop/rock orchestra. (p. 290); Use more performed music than congregational singing ... (p. 291) (emphasis on entertainment); The ground we have in common with unbelievers is not the Bible, but our common needs, hurts, and interests as human beings. You cannot start with a text ... (p. 295); Make your members feel special ... they need to feel special. (p. 320,323)
Being seeker sensitive in our worship is a biblical command” (p. 243) and “Keep your pastoral prayers short in your seeker services. . . . The unchurched can’t handle long prayers; their minds wander or they fall asleep.” 

For am I now trying to win the favor of people, or God? Or am I striving to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ. (Gal. 1:10-11) HCS

It is about Jesus Christ crucified for sin, that is the message that will grow the Church.

There is an organization of churches in the north west that rates it's member churches partly by the number of baptisms the preform each month.

I ask you which congregation will God bless, the Saddleback church with it's rock and roll band or a home church in Iraq that has to hide it's one copy of the bible under the floor boards of the house for fear of death?

[Fat]

• 

The Purpose-Driven Lukewarm Church

[Jack Koons]

• 

The problem is, it isn't just Rick Warren. When Oprah Winfrey went to visit Joel Osteen in Texas, she spoke of hearing nothing but negative preaching on sin as a child; then stated how much better it was to hear a positive message from Joel! (Oh goodie!)

People need to hear about their sin, and God's mercy and grace. We need to know that were it not for the grace of God, we we would all be in Hell. The only thing that sustained us is His mighty hand!

Jack

[michaelf]

• 

Agree with the general idea that today's church is a watered down Gospel.  However I think it is like elderly people complaining that people of this generation do not show respect  to people while failing to acknowledge that the current generation is a product of the upbringing of the previous generation.

the current church is failing because of the deficiency of the previous generation.  Does that excuse the current generation, NO , but there is plenty of blame to go around to the previous generations too.  So many things that are not biblical but are compulsory in many churches traditions become doctrine which people rebel against and through out the good doctrine with it.

Some easy target to show my point.
Christians should be clean shaven - bible ref please
Christians should wear a tie/suit  - bible ref please
How many overweight preaches preach against smoking and drinking in moderation but gluttony which is actually mentioned in the bible - never (drunkenness is a different issue) ref I do not smoke or drink..BUT it is not because it is a biblical issue but a personal one.

[admin]

• 

So many things that are not biblical but are compulsory in many churches traditions become doctrine which people rebel against and through out the good doctrine with it.

Some easy target to show my point.
Christians should be clean shaven - bible ref please
Christians should wear a tie/suit  - bible ref please
How many overweight preaches preach against smoking and drinking in moderation but gluttony which is actually mentioned in the bible - never (drunkenness is a different issue) ref I do not smoke or drink..BUT it is not because it is a biblical issue but a personal one.

What you're describing is pretty much what the Pharisees did back in Christ time. They added to the law, and lived a hypocritical life.

As far as who is responsible, I believe that anyone who has not held to sound doctrine is responsible.

The world is in a heap of trouble, but we were forewarned.

[Jack Koons]

• 

As I review Biblical and church history, I never see the leadership of any mainstream "Christian" church follow sound doctrine. I believe the reason for this, rests in the fact that most of the leadership starts out good in a small church that at one time did preach the true gospel; then the young man goes to Bible college and gets his doctrine tweaked in order to "align" with one of the mainstream beliefs.

"Some easy target to show my point.
Christians should be clean shaven - bible ref please
Christians should wear a tie/suit  - bible ref please
How many overweight preaches preach against smoking and drinking in moderation but gluttony which is actually mentioned in the bible - never (drunkenness is a different issue) ref I do not smoke or drink..BUT it is not because it is a biblical issue but a personal one."

Beards are actually addressed in the Bible, just to the opposite of what people say. The problem is, as soon as the verses are mentioned, you hear, "That was under the Law". People should really understand what Paul meant by "under the  Law", before using the phrase.

No suits and ties are not mentioned in the Bible, but I believe that since we are representing the King of kings, it can't hurt to look our best.

Gluttony, smoking, and drinking, I don't think we need to debate something that obvious. I will admit, I am a bit over weight, (the older I get the harder it is not to gain weight) but not in any major way. (I am no where near qualifying for 'the biggest loser'.)

How can we have sound doctrine when we have watered down Bibles?

Jack

[michaelf]

• 

How can we have sound doctrine when we have watered down Bibles?

Might be the wrong place for this but I would like to address this comment.
Firstly with the exception of the original Greek I acknowledged the KJV is the best translation
HOWEVER

illustration from my church
We have people our church (loggers) who did not get to high school.  Reading age 10-12 - can deal with road signs as they can recognize them.
Expecting them to read KJV ....words fail me. There are some passages I find difficult (I have an IT uni degree)

There are some worthless translations out there but there are some OK ones too.

I think you will find fisherman were fairly simple in bible days (big hello to all the fishermen out there!!)

We need to be careful not to consider more scholarly Christians more Godly then the more simple ones(And if you want truck engine fixed these guy can do it before breakfast I do not have a clue so who is the smart one anyway)

superfluity - ??
against does not mean against as we know it   Genesis 43:25 When this type of thing happens it is worse then a word I know that i do not know because it leads to miss understandings
apothecary - no idea - i can look it up others do not have that option

Just to name a few

Now a church without a full time pastor like ours it really is a problem.

Just saying

Attach blindfold,  Tie me to the post, prepare to shoot  I am ready

[Jack Koons]

• 

2 Tim 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

About 25 years ago a man told me, "Outside of the classroom, what every student of God needs is, a King James Bible, a Strong's Concordance, and a Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary". I took the advice, and it has served me well.

[Moss]

• 

Might be the wrong place for this but I would like to address this comment.
Firstly with the exception of the original Greek I acknowledged the KJV is the best translation
HOWEVER

Disagree but that's another tread. 

There are some worthless translations out there but there are some OK ones too.

I think you will find fisherman were fairly simple in bible days (big hello to all the fishermen out there!!)

We need to be careful not to consider more scholarly Christians more Godly then the more simple ones(And if you want truck engine fixed these guy can do it before breakfast I do not have a clue so who is the smart one anyway)

Amen.

[calluna]

• 

2 Tim 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Making divisions in the word of truth sounds like what the devil would like done to it.