Who teaches sound doctrine?

[Bob]

• 

2 Tim 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Making divisions in the word of truth sounds like what the devil would like done to it.

That's one of the many problems with the KJV.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. (NAS)

Sound better 

[Jack Koons]

• 

3718 ὀρθοτομέω [O)RQOTOME/W] {orthotoméō} \or-thot-om-eh'-o\
from a compound of 3717 and the base of5114, to make a straight cut, i.e. (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message):--rightly divide.

This is why the verse begins with the word "study".

Jack

[calluna]

• 

That's one of the many problems with the KJV.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. (NAS)

Sound better 

It does indeed sound better, and thanks for it.  I don't think it's quite what the ex-Pharisee and Roman citizen had in mind when writing, or what Timothy understood when reading it, though. It's quite an interesting verse, this, as it happens. There is here a borrowing from ordinary Greek usage that was used of making roads, or ploughing, meaning 'cutting straight', a highly desirable practice when making Roman roads (essential for ploughing!). This resonates with the OT idea of straight paths (indeed, the Greek usage may itself have been a borrowing from diaspora Jews). For instance:

'Folly delights a man who lacks judgment, but a man of understanding keeps a straight course.' Pr 15:21 NIV

The word 'straight' here implying a level, flat, surface, and safety, without cause for stumbling. So the following seems not inappropriate:

'Be eager to present yourself to God as one approved, a teacher who does not need to be ashamed, making straight paths from the word of truth.'

In other words, Timothy's teaching is to be both faithful to the Scripture, and useful in practice, too. The word 'diligent' implies laboriousness, which is not a hermeneutic choice. We know that Paul does not consider that Timothy needs to study Scripture, because he has known it from infancy. There is more than teaching ability here, too, because Timothy's personal behaviour is to have 'passed the test', unlike that of the reprobate.

In any case, this translation surely cannot seem too inappropriate in today's context of easy-believe-ism and false doctrine. Folly delights a man who lacks judgment, and many today have got around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

[Bob]

• 

3718 ὀρθοτομέω [O)RQOTOME/W] {orthotoméō} \or-thot-om-eh'-o\
from a compound of 3717 and the base of5114, to make a straight cut, i.e. (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message):--rightly divide.

This is why the verse begins with the word "study".

Jack

Strong's Number:   3718    
Original Word   Word Origin
ojrqotomevw   from a compound of (3717) and the base of (5114)
Transliterated Word   TDNT Entry
Orthotomeo   8:111,1169
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
or-thot-om-eh'-o        Verb
 Definition
to cut straight, to cut straight ways
to proceed on straight paths, hold a straight course, equiv. to doing right
to make straight and smooth, to handle aright, to teach the truth directly and correctly
 

[Jack Koons]

• 

The name of this thread is, "Who teaches sound doctrine"?

This might be better answered in the thread, "Infallibility of the Bible". Why? The doctrines we teach can be no more 'sound', than the textbook we use to teach it. Since the days of Semler, our 'textbook', the Bible, has been looked upon, and evaluated as, just another 'textbook' written by man.

When the scholarship that both translates, and teaches the Word of God, no longer believe the doctrines of Christianity, why do they maintain such positions?

Jack

[Theodore A. Jones]

• 

As I review Biblical and church history, I never see the leadership of any mainstream "Christian" church follow sound doctrine. I believe the reason for this, rests in the fact that most of the leadership starts out good in a small church that at one time did preach the true gospel; then the young man goes to Bible college and gets his doctrine tweaked in order to "align" with one of the mainstream beliefs.

"Some easy target to show my point.
Christians should be clean shaven - bible ref please
Christians should wear a tie/suit  - bible ref please
How many overweight preaches preach against smoking and drinking in moderation but gluttony which is actually mentioned in the bible - never (drunkenness is a different issue) ref I do not smoke or drink..BUT it is not because it is a biblical issue but a personal one."

Beards are actually addressed in the Bible, just to the opposite of what people say. The problem is, as soon as the verses are mentioned, you hear, "That was under the Law". People should really understand what Paul meant by "under the  Law", before using the phrase.

No suits and ties are not mentioned in the Bible, but I believe that since we are representing the King of kings, it can't hurt to look our best.

Gluttony, smoking, and drinking, I don't think we need to debate something that obvious. I will admit, I am a bit over weight, (the older I get the harder it is not to gain weight) but not in any major way. (I am no where near qualifying for 'the biggest loser'.)

How can we have sound doctrine when we have watered down Bibles?

Jack

What is the "true gospel" ? What is the "false gospel"?

[Jack Koons]

• 

The simplest statement concerning the 'true gospel' is that it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Jack

[Theodore A. Jones]

• 

Every time I get into this discussion I think of Rick Warren and his Seeker Friendly Church.


Warren says, (The Purpose-Driven Church)

Figure out what mood you want your service to project, and then create it. (p. 264); We start positive and end positive. (p. 271); We use humor in our services ... it is not a sin to help people feel good. (p. 272); Cultivate an informal, relaxed, and friendly atmosphere. (p. 272); We made a strategic decision to stop singing hymns in our seeker services. (p. 285); We have attracted thousands more because of our music. (p. 285); Saddleback now has a complete pop/rock orchestra. (p. 290); Use more performed music than congregational singing ... (p. 291) (emphasis on entertainment); The ground we have in common with unbelievers is not the Bible, but our common needs, hurts, and interests as human beings. You cannot start with a text ... (p. 295); Make your members feel special ... they need to feel special. (p. 320,323)
Being seeker sensitive in our worship is a biblical command” (p. 243) and “Keep your pastoral prayers short in your seeker services. . . . The unchurched can’t handle long prayers; their minds wander or they fall asleep.”

For am I now trying to win the favor of people, or God? Or am I striving to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ. (Gal. 1:10-11) HCS

It is about Jesus Christ crucified for sin, that is the message that will grow the Church.

There is an organization of churches in the north west that rates it's member churches partly by the number of baptisms the preform each month.

I ask you which congregation will God bless, the Saddleback church with it's rock and roll band or a home church in Iraq that has to hide it's one copy of the bible under the floor boards of the house for fear of death?

Elaborate "It is about Jesus Christ crucified for sin" explaining in particular the term "for sin".

[Alexander Winslow]

• 

The only sound doctrine comes from the Bible itself, so while the main doctrine of Christendom is the Trinity; the main doctrine of the Bible is the 'ransom' without which all is lost.

The individual churches of Christendom teach their own man-made doctrines and then fit names and scriptures from the Bible around them.

Often when specific scriptural information on particular issues is given, some have stated that they cannot accept this. Therefore what they are actually saying is that they do not accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God.

Someone says that he believes that Jesus is 'God the Son' while Jesus emphatically states that he is the 'Son of God' so therefore not God incarnate. So whom do we accept, this person or Jesus?

Another person believes in immortality of the soul, while Almighty God emphatically states:

“Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalm 146:4) King James Version (KJV) [King James I of England 1611 A.D.] 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) Proving that a soul is not immortal. 

So whom do we believe that person or Almighty God?

A good example is when two people were playing chess and each one was playing it different to the other. Conclusion; either one is right and one wrong, or both are wrong. Solution? The book of rules is then consulted and when established, both end up playing correctly. The Bible is our book of rules, but unless adhered to; we will all end up confused like Christendom!

Alexander

[Hal]

• 

The first step is to establish the biblical doctrine that there is only one God.  Then, you find that each of the persons is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, etc. Therefore, God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons.  Please note that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible; after all, man and wife are said to be one flesh. The idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God in Genesis (Gen. 2:24).

Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5, 14, 18, 21, 22; 46:9; 47:8

Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at by looking at the whole of scripture--not in a single verse. It is the doctrine that there is only one God and not three, and that the one God exists in three persons: Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. An analogy would be time. Time is past, present, and future; but, there are not three times and only one.

Called God
Father Phil. 1:2
Son John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9
Holy Ghost Acts 5:3-4

Called Creator
Father Isaiah 64:8
Son John 1:3; Col. 1:15-17   
Holy Spirit Job 33:4, 26:13

Sanctifies
Father 1 Thess. 5:23   
Son Heb. 2:11
Spirit 1 Pet. 1:2

Savior
Father 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:10
Son  2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:4; 3:6

[Alexander Winslow]

• 

It is very disturbing these days to find that so many individuals believes in Satan's doctrine of the Trinity which introduces a teaching of equality when the Bible teaches balance.

Balance is the 'key' to creation, Almighty God is the only spirit being with no beginning and no end. (Psalm 90:2) This is followed by the Word, the first-born of all creation who is the Alpha and the Omega, while everything else is created through him on instruction from Almighty God (Proverbs 8:22-31)

This creative formula is then followed through with the creation of the Cherubim, the Seraphim and then the angels. The same procedure was later followed for the earth, the creation of Adam the first perfect man, then Eve and the rest of the earthly creatures all in accordance with its kind.

Although each kind is equal with itself, no kind is equal; with another. So the mere suggestion of a trinity where kind has suddenly mixed with kind, spirit with human, this is specifically in opposition to God's Creative Law and the result is a hybrid, mongrel species!

Observe the watch, if all its parts were made equal , when wound up it would certainly run like a clock-work toy; but it would never keep time!

Alexander

[Moss]

• 

Balance is the 'key' to creation, Almighty God is the only spirit being with no beginning and no end. (Psalm 90:2) This is followed by the Word, the first-born of all creation who is the Alpha and the Omega, while everything else is created through him on instruction from Almighty God (Proverbs 8:22-31)

Revelation 22
 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done . 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost. 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

Although each kind is equal with itself, no kind is equal; with another. So the mere suggestion of a trinity where kind has suddenly mixed with kind, spirit with human, this is specifically in opposition to God's Creative Law and the result is a hybrid, mongrel species!

The Almighty God is after all the Almighty God and can even make a 'mongrel species'.

Mark 5:15 NAS
They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the "legion "; and they became frightened.

A good example is when two people were playing chess and each one was playing it different to the other. Conclusion; either one is right and one wrong, or both are wrong. Solution? The book of rules is then consulted and when established, both end up playing correctly. The Bible is our book of rules, but unless adhered to; we will all end up confused like Christendom!

Who's right?
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[Alexander Winslow]

• 

Hello Moss,

Good to converse with you. I am not sure why you have quoted Revelation 22 which is the ultimate conclusion of all things after the completion of the task set for the New Jerusalem.

Your second comment is a little disturbing and shows a lack of understanding with regard to Almighty God's creative formula which as he informs us through the scriptures that all things in creation are each created according to its kind.

So as each is created according the its own DNA pattern, we note from scripture that there is no deviation from this. Therefore as a 'mongrel' species would mean deviating from this set arrangement, Almighty God being a God not of confusion but of peace. ((1 Cor. 14:33))

In reply to my example of the correctness of the game of chess, you ask: "Who's right?" Then continue to cite John 1:1 from an erroneous translation.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." KJV?

The correct rendering of this scripture from the original Greek is: “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and a god was the Word.” (John 1:1) (Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott - V20b Vat Ms 1209 – one of the oldest in existence) 

Scripture: John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Almighty GOD and the Word was a created God.” (John 1:1) NMTCS

Scripture: John 1:1* “In the very beginning, there was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was mighty and powerful.” [2001 Translation]

The next verse 2 which you quote actually confirms this when it states: "2 He was in the beginning with God." So to be in the beginning 'with' God and not as God prove that thay are two 'separate' individuals; especially as Almighty God was in existence long before the creation of the Word.

Also as you correctly quote: "14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Yes, the 'Word' became flesh; not Almighty God.

So just like the rule book in chess, the correct translation of God's word puts all things in the right perspective.

The rest of the scriptures which you quote are excellent, but you seem not to understand their meaning.

As the true Shekinah Christ is the light of the world, that is; the light of understanding. As he was born a Jew, he came to his own, the house of Israel to give them the opportunity of accepting the offer of entering the kingdom of heaven; but the majority refused.

But those that did accept him, such as the Apostles, they became sons of Almighty God by adoption; by which they declared "ABBA, Father!" (Romans 8:15)

Alexander

[kjw47]

• 

This is a bible based board and with that in mind can we debate the deferent conflicting doctrines we see within the Christian community?

      1 Timothy 4:6 NAS

[A Good Minister's Discipline] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

      1 Timothy 6:3 NAS

If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

      2 Timothy 4:3 NAS

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine ; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

      Titus 1:9 NAS

holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

      Titus 2:1 NAS
[Duties of the Older and Younger] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

A house divided will not stand-Mark 3:24-26=33.000 trinity religions----- 1Cor 1:10--united in all thought--no division. ---it is clear God had a single religion in the ot---Jesus started a single religion--one religion, one truth, one faith, one God. this God--John 4:22-24--Jesus' God and Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12---the rest is an illusion of satans will-2Cor 4:4

[Moss]

• 

A house divided will not stand-Mark 3:24-26=33.000 trinity religions----- 1Cor 1:10--united in all thought--no division. ---it is clear God had a single religion in the ot---Jesus started a single religion--one religion, one truth, one faith, one God. this God--John 4:22-24--Jesus' God and Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12---the rest is an illusion of satans will-2Cor 4:4

Num 6:18 'The Nazirite shall then shave his dedicated head of hair at the doorway of the tent of meeting, and take the dedicated hair of his head and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of peace offerings.

 Act 18:18 Paul, having remained many days longer, took leave of the brethren and put out to sea for Syria, and with him were Priscilla and Aquila. In Cenchrea he had his hair cut, for he was keeping a vow.

 Act 21:24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.