predestination

[Bob]

• 

Hello Bob,

"Matthew 23:37 as in dozens of other verses shows the love God has for His CHOSEN PEOPLE. "

Are you saying God only loves Jews?

Jack

I'm saying that the seed of Abraham are the chosen people of God. Do you disagree with that jack?

[Jack Koons]

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The physical seed of Abraham are God's chosen people.

Jack

[Moss]

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The physical seed of Abraham are God's chosen people.

Jack

Hello Jack

What does the Bible say Jack.

Galatians 3 CSB

 8 Now the Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed in you. 9 So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith.....

14 The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brothers, I'm using a human illustration. No one sets aside even a human covenant that has been ratified, or makes additions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say "and to seeds," as though referring to many, but and to your seed, referring to one, who is Christ......

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.

Do the scriptures lie Jack?

[Bob]

• 

Hello Bob,

"Matthew 23:37 as in dozens of other verses shows the love God has for His CHOSEN PEOPLE. "

Are you saying God only loves Jews?

Jack

The physical seed of Abraham are God's chosen people.

Jack

No not at all. Have you read of the vine and the root. Romans 11

[Fat]

• 

The Bible speaks of two kinds of calls or callings of the Holy Spirit.

External Call to all sinners who are brought in contact with His Word.

For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 22:14

Internal Call this call is the Holy Spirit's irresistible, saving application of the gospel to the hearts of His children.

Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, thern He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
Romans 8:30

[Jack Koons]

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What is Israel? What is a Jew?

Here we enter into the world of 'semantics'.

A Calvinist defines the "elect" or "chosen" as the Jews of all ages, along with any Gentiles that get saved.

I have been accused of avoiding John 6; so let's take a look.

John 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to Calvinism, this passage states the following:

1) vs. 37
A.  The "chosen" or "elect" are all those that the Father gives to the Son.
B. All the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son.
C. All (the chosen) that come to the Son, the Son will not cast out.

2) vs. 38 The Son did not come to do His own will, rather, He came to do the will of the Father.

3) vs. 39
A. It is the will of the Father that the Son should loose none of those that were given Him (the "chosen" or "elect")
B. it is the Will of the Father that the Son should raise up al of the "chosen" or "elect" again at the last day.

4) vs. 40
A. It is the will of the Father that every one which sees the Son, and believes on Him (the "chosen" or "elect") may have everlasting live (be saved forever).
B. And the Son will raise him (the "chosen" or "elect") up at the last day.

Did I get that right?

Jack

[Fat]

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What is Israel? What is a Jew?

Here we enter into the world of 'semantics'.

A Calvinist defines the "elect" or "chosen" as the Jews of all ages, along with any Gentiles that get saved.

I have been accused of avoiding John 6; so let's take a look.

John 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to Calvinism, this passage states the following:

1) vs. 37
A.  The "chosen" or "elect" are all those that the Father gives to the Son.
B. All the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son.
C. All (the chosen) that come to the Son, the Son will not cast out.

2) vs. 38 The Son did not come to do His own will, rather, He came to do the will of the Father.

3) vs. 39
A. It is the will of the Father that the Son should loose none of those that were given Him (the "chosen" or "elect")
B. it is the Will of the Father that the Son should raise up al of the "chosen" or "elect" again at the last day.

4) vs. 40
A. It is the will of the Father that every one which sees the Son, and believes on Him (the "chosen" or "elect") may have everlasting live (be saved forever).
B. And the Son will raise him (the "chosen" or "elect") up at the last day.

Did I get that right?

Jack

Again Jack you have your biased filters on. Let us look at the post as it was posted.

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." …..
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me …
65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

In short Jack, you did not get it right try again. See if you can find from the verses you left out, who the elect (chosen) are and where they come from.

Paul has tried to help you out here in Rom 8.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

This is a Bible-based discussion board and the rules state that you must supply biblical reference when asked.
You have been giving a lot of you're feeling good opinions, but I am now making that request that you back up your further statements with the biblical references thank you.

[Jack Koons]

• 

A Calvinist defines the "elect" or "chosen" as the Jews of all ages, along with any Gentiles that get saved.

I have been accused of avoiding John 6; so let's take a look.

John 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

According to Calvinism, this passage states the following:

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

1) vs. 37
A.  The "chosen" or "elect" are all those that the Father gives to the Son.
B. All the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son.
C. All (the chosen) that come to the Son, the Son will not cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

2) vs. 38 The Son did not come to do His own will, rather, He came to do the will of the Father.

39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

3) vs. 39
A. It is the will of the Father that the Son should loose none of those that were given Him (the "chosen" or "elect")
B. it is the Will of the Father that the Son should raise up al of the "chosen" or "elect" again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

4) vs. 40
A. It is the will of the Father that every one which sees the Son, and believes on Him (the "chosen" or "elect") may have everlasting live (be saved forever).
B. And the Son will raise him (the "chosen" or "elect") up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

5) vs. 44
A. No man (the "chosen" or "elect) can come to the Son, except (or unless) the Father draw him.
B. And the Son will raise him (the "chosen" or "elect") up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

6) vs. 45
A. It is written in the prophets
B. And they (the "chosen" or "elect") shall be all (the "chosen" or "elect") taught of God.
C. Every man (the "chosen" or "elect") therefore that hath heard
D. And (every man [the "chosen" or "elect"]) hath learned of the Father
E. (only the "chosen" or "elect") cometh unto me.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

7) vs. 65
A. Jesus said, No man (the "chosen" or "elect") can come to the Son, except (or unless) they (the "chosen" or "elect") were given to the Son of the Father.

Summary:

The Father has "chosen" or "elected" particular people to be saved. These "chosen" or "elected" people can only go to the Son to be saved if the Father draws them. These "chosen" or "elect" are the Jews of all ages, along with any Gentiles that get saved.


Did I get that right?

Jack

[Fat]

• 

No Jack you got it wrong. For instance 'no man' does not mean 'chosen or elect'.

According to Calvinism, this passage states the following:

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." …..
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me …
65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

[Jack Koons]

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Fat,

Please define the "chosen" or "elect". Please give your references, and please don't just say, "Those who are predestinated"; that is known as circular reasoning.

I want YOUR DEFINITION OF THE CHOSEN.

Jack

[Fat]

• 

Fat,

Please define the "chosen" or "elect". Please give your references, and please don't just say, "Those who are predestinated"; that is known as circular reasoning.

I want YOUR DEFINITION OF THE CHOSEN.

Jack

Rom 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,

Eph 1:11 In Him we were also made His inheritance, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,


Strong's Number:   4309    
Original Word   Word Origin
proorizo   from (4253) and (3724)
Transliterated Word   TDNT Entry
Proorizo   5:456,728
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
pro-or-id'-zo        Verb
 Definition
to predetermine, decide beforehand
in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
to foreordain, appoint beforehand
 
Used in acts 4:28 showing that Christ was predestined to the CROSS. And 1 corinthians 2:7 speaking of God's hidden wisdom.

[Jack Koons]

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Fat,

You did not answer my question.

I specifically want to know, Who are the "chosen" ones?

Jack

[Fat]

• 

Fat,

You did not answer my question.

I specifically want to know, Who are the "chosen" ones?

Jack

Those who have the inheritance:

Ephesians 1:11
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Rom 8:29 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

[Jack Koons]

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Fat,

Do you believe the Bible specifies who God's chosen people are?

[Fat]

• 

Fat,

Do you believe the Bible specifies who God's chosen people are?

That question has been answered.
Do you want to discuss what you believe the Scriptures posted of John 6 say, or is it that you have no independent thought or have never considered the verses posted?  These are all words of Christ not words of man, not even the words of a disciple or apostle.

I believe these verses are self-explanatory and they say what they say. If you believe they don't say what they say or have some biblical reference to show otherwise enlighten us, I am truly interested to hear from such an enlightened person as yourself having been so highly educated.

 I'll give you a heads up being as you are new on this board. The admindude (AKA Bob) does not like or tolerate a circular debate. It confuses those who read the forum and never answers the questions concerning the Scriptures. We have far more readers than people who participate on the Board. If you check the stats you will see that we are getting close to hundred thousand pages read a month, yet we only have 49 users. I started this thread I do not want it shutdown because you want to play games.