Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
Is there another way?
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: Jack Koons on June 25, 2013, 12:37:45 pm ---
Ezekiel 33 says that God has called us to be a watchman on the wall. To sound the trumpet, and warn the people of danger. If those Marines would have walked by me, and would not have given them warning; their blood would have been on my hands. If they were just two young wicked Marines that weren't part of the 'elect', why would their blood be on my hands? God didn't choose them. They were wicked, and ungodly; they got what they deserved, right? That is predestination.
--- End quote ---
This is predestination Jack.
Romans 8:28-39
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate , them he also called : and whom he called , them he also justified : and whom he justified , them he also glorified . 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth . 34 Who is he that condemneth ? It is Christ that died , yea rather , that is risen again , who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written , For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded , that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present , nor things to come , 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It's in the Bible Jack, get over it.
Moss:
--- Quote from: Jack Koons ---The reason their blood would have been on my hands is because their souls are precious to God the Father.
Their blood, however, is not on my hands. These two young Marines will stand before God and have no reason to give God for refusing Him. Fifteen minutes before they entered eternity those two Marines were warned of the danger ahead. I do not want to make it sound like I don't care about those Marines, I most definitely did, That is why we were there witnessing on the streets. The point is, I have them the gospel, showing them their need to be saved. But in the final analysts, they CHOOSE not to accept Christ as Saviour; and that is why they are condemned, with their blood on their own hands.
--- End quote ---
The truth is if you truly believe in free will than the blood of these two Marines is on your hands. For you failed to convince them of their need for immediate salvation. For if these two young lads were free to make that choice then there is no reason to assume that you could not have influenced their decision.
You can't have it both ways, either they had free will or they were not part of the elect.
A Calvinist on the other hand gives the message of the gospel and answers any questions or gives any assistance to those being ministered to. Calvinist does not know if the person he is talking to is a member of the elect are not. He knows that Christ's sheep shall hear his voice and follow him.
John 10:14 CSB
"I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
John 10:26 CSB
But you don't believe because you are not My sheep.
John 10:27 CSB
My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
This is cut and dry, those that are not His sheep can not believe, your Marines did not believe. WHY?
Jack Koons:
Are we getting a little angry Zant?
Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
This clearly teaches predestination of something; but what is predestinating to happen?
"To be conformed to the image of his Son" ...
Now 'who' is God predestinating to the image of His Son?
"Whom he did foreknowledge" ...
The predestination of this text is NOT Predestination of the ELECT that are better and holier, because they are part of the ELECT.
What you refuse to accept is that God "foreknew" because He is God who would,and wouldn't see the light of the gospel and accept Him as Saviour before the foundation of the world. Based on that knowledge, (who would choose to believe His word, His witness, causing them to repent) they would be His elect, because when they would look to the cross; they would be drawn to Him.
Those who are not drawn, are not drawn because they resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
This is the problem with predestination, there is no willingness to surrender because of a broken and contrite heart. It's all about, I'm saved because I'm part of the elect.
God gets glory for condemning untold millions of souls because they were "ungodly". When I read my Bible, I see a God who grieves over lost souls.
Any sovereign dictator can rule a country, killing whomever he wishes, if they do not do as he wishes. However, it takes a wise, loving ruler to show his subjects the truth; and thereby get them to follow him through love, and adoration.
The God of the Bible in His wisdom and foreknowledge of the "whosoever" of the "all" of the "world" through all the ages, predestinated those individuals to be conformed to the image of his Son.
To believe anything else would take a deliberate effort to eradicate nearly every "whosoever" said by Jesus. When he said whosoever, He meant whosoever.
Jack
Jack Koons:
Hello Moss,
You need to read Ez 33 before speaking in ignorance.
Ez. 33:
2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
Nowhere does this text state that you must convince them of anything. It says you must give them the warning.
Notice verse 4 and 5 4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
The responsibility of the watchman is to sound the trumpet warning the people. The responsibility of the people is to respond to the warning. It does not say the watchman must take him to see the danger and so fourth; his responsibility is to blow the trumpet, the people have the responsibility of choosing to take heed to the warning, or reject the warning.
This is a type of our responsibility as believers; to blow the trumpet, give the warning. The people then must choose.
Jack
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: Jack Koons on June 25, 2013, 03:22:14 pm ---Are we getting a little angry Zant?
Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
This clearly teaches predestination of something; but what is predestinating to happen?
"To be conformed to the image of his Son" ...
Now 'who' is God predestinating to the image of His Son?
"Whom he did foreknowledge" ...
The predestination of this text is NOT Predestination of the ELECT that are better and holier, because they are part of the ELECT.
What you refuse to accept is that God "foreknew" because He is God who would,and wouldn't see the light of the gospel and accept Him as Saviour before the foundation of the world. Based on that knowledge, (who would choose to believe His word, His witness, causing them to repent) they would be His elect, because when they would look to the cross; they would be drawn to Him.
Those who are not drawn, are not drawn because they resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
This is the problem with predestination, there is no willingness to surrender because of a broken and contrite heart. It's all about, I'm saved because I'm part of the elect.
God gets glory for condemning untold millions of souls because they were "ungodly". When I read my Bible, I see a God who grieves over lost souls.
Any sovereign dictator can rule a country, killing whomever he wishes, if they do not do as he wishes. However, it takes a wise, loving ruler to show his subjects the truth; and thereby get them to follow him through love, and adoration.
The God of the Bible in His wisdom and foreknowledge of the "whosoever" of the "all" of the "world" through all the ages, predestinated those individuals to be conformed to the image of his Son.
To believe anything else would take a deliberate effort to eradicate nearly every "whosoever" said by Jesus. When he said whosoever, He meant whosoever.
Jack
--- End quote ---
Let me post it again for you Jack. If posting the Scriptures is an angry act may I be always angry.
Romans 8:28-39
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate , them he also called : and whom he called , them he also justified : and whom he justified , them he also glorified . 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth . 34 Who is he that condemneth ? It is Christ that died , yea rather , that is risen again , who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written , For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded , that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present , nor things to come , 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
How many Jews did God let die so that God's prophecy of Israel would come to pass in 1948?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version