The trouble with Calvinism.

[Zant Law]

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The trouble with Calvinism.

You cannot find a Calvinist church that ordains women pastors.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that sanctifies same-sex marriage.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes a mother has a right to kill her unborn child.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that preaches that some Buddhist that are good men will be in heaven.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes Christians should work with Muslims to create a better world.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes the Bible is to be taken as only a roadmap for man, and not to be taken literally.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that shies away from controversial subjects like marriage, abortion, and homosexuality.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes religion should evolve as society evolves.

In conclusion, the problem of Calvinist churches is that they are no fun, too strict, always referring to the Bible, and to narrow minded in their belief in salvation.

[Moss]

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LOL
It sounds like they are sexist, homophobic, Islamaphobic and bigoted. 

[Fat]

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You can't find a Calvinist church that prays to Mary and bows to the Pope.

[clark thompson]

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The trouble with Calvinism.

You cannot find a Calvinist church that ordains women pastors.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that sanctifies same-sex marriage.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes a mother has a right to kill her unborn child.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that preaches that some Buddhist that are good men will be in heaven.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes Christians should work with Muslims to create a better world.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes the Bible is to be taken as only a roadmap for man, and not to be taken literally.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that shies away from controversial subjects like marriage, abortion, and homosexuality.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes religion should evolve as society evolves.

In conclusion, the problem of Calvinist churches is that they are no fun, too strict, always referring to the Bible, and to narrow minded in their belief in salvation.

I go to a church that is not calvinist and we have these same views. I am proud to say I view the same way.

[Zant Law]

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I go to a church that is not calvinist and we have these same views. I am proud to say I view the same way.

Calvinist or not hold on to it, you're lucky.

ZLaw

[Frank T]

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The trouble with Calvinism.

You cannot find a Calvinist church that ordains women pastors.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that sanctifies same-sex marriage.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes a mother has a right to kill her unborn child.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that preaches that some Buddhist that are good men will be in heaven.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes Christians should work with Muslims to create a better world.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes the Bible is to be taken as only a roadmap for man, and not to be taken literally.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that shies away from controversial subjects like marriage, abortion, and homosexuality.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes religion should evolve as society evolves.

In conclusion, the problem of Calvinist churches is that they are no fun, too strict, always referring to the Bible, and to narrow minded in their belief in salvation.

I actually know one that shies away the topic divorce.

Frank

[michaelf]

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You cannot find a Calvinist church that ordains women pastors.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that sanctifies same-sex marriage.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes a mother has a right to kill her unborn child.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that preaches that some Buddhist that are good men will be in heaven.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes Christians should work with Muslims to create a better world.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes the Bible is to be taken as only a roadmap for man, and not to be taken literally.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that shies away from controversial subjects like marriage, abortion, and homosexuality.
You cannot find a Calvinist church that believes religion should evolve as society evolves.

Actually it is not that black and white when it comes to marriage,divorce and remarriage.  though if it is really really Calvinistic then that shouldn't be a problem but they would not have any missionaries either. 

A biblical Church rather then a Calvinist church is much better.  Still looking for a perfect church but ever time I join one I find it has a least 1 imperfect member.
 

[Zant Law]

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Actually it is not that black and white when it comes to marriage,divorce and remarriage.  though if it is really really Calvinistic then that shouldn't be a problem but they would not have any missionaries either. 

A biblical Church rather then a Calvinist church is much better.  Still looking for a perfect church but ever time I join one I find it has a least 1 imperfect member.

" Still looking for a perfect church but ever time I join one I find it has a least 1 imperfect member."

Me too but I solved that problem by staying out of rooms with mirrors.

It just that Calvinist churches seem to stick to the bible and stay away from all the PC stuff. Hyper-Calvinist are not biblically sound, or mentally sound.

[calluna]

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The trouble with Calvinism.

You cannot find a Calvinist church that ordains women pastors.

That does not mean that Calvinism is Christian. Catholics and Mormons also have no women pastors.

[Zant Law]

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That does not mean that Calvinism is Christian. Catholics and Mormons also have no women pastors.

There is a Catholic denomination and a Mormon denomination is there a calvinist denomination? Both catholics and mormons have strong central leadership.

There is a sec that calls themselves Calvinist that are not biblical in their interpretation of the Scripture we refer to as hyper-calvinist. These are people that try and glorify themselves and not God and they are fatalist, but they are not Calvinist anymore then then the Pope is.

Calvinism by it's nature, has to be the most unpolitical correct teaching of the scripture there is. They do not bow to the wishes of the outside world. You see them attacked in the media all the time, look at the Christian preachers that are always coming under fire from the media, 90% of them are calvinist.

Are there people out there that call themselves calvinist that are not Christians? You bet there are, but to find a calvinist church that is not Christian is a deferent story.

ZLaw

[calluna]

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There is a Catholic denomination and a Mormon denomination is there a calvinist denomination? Both catholics and mormons have strong central leadership.

They do, but that does not mean that absence of strong central leadership combined with absence of women pastors is a sure sign of orthodoxy. There must be a logical step from the data to the conclusion; one cannot demonstrate orthodoxy by mere association. A denomination, movement or even cult could have every theological detail perfect, except for one, that is spiritually fatal.

There are people who reject women elders, homosexuality and abortion, and say that they embrace sola fide and sola Scriptura, but are not Calvinist. And they may not be Christians, either.

One may have absolutely perfect theology, and not be born again of the Holy Spirit.

[Zant Law]

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They do, but that does not mean that absence of strong central leadership combined with absence of women pastors is a sure sign of orthodoxy. There must be a logical step from the data to the conclusion; one cannot demonstrate orthodoxy by mere association. A denomination, movement or even cult could have every theological detail perfect, except for one, that is spiritually fatal.

There are people who reject women elders, homosexuality and abortion, and say that they embrace sola fide and sola Scriptura, but are not Calvinist. And they may not be Christians, either.

One may have absolutely perfect theology, and not be born again of the Holy Spirit.

The point of having a large denomination with a central leadership is that the qualifications, and selection of church leaders inside that denomination is determined by the central leadership. Calvinism has no defined leadership, in fact it has no denomination defining it.

Most Calvinist churches don't even call himself Calvinist, sometimes the members of the church themselves don't even realize that they are members of the Calvinist church. Sometimes you can determine by checking the church's website and looking at their statement of faith and sometimes you can't. A couple years back I attended a church four times and everyone I ask in the church if they were Calvinist they responded with the same line, "we are Bible believing church". I finally had to take the pastor out to lunch and actually quiz him to determine that he was in fact a Calvinist. The point I'm trying to make is that when you find a Calvinist church you are not going to find that is led by a homosexual, pedophile, or woman pastor.

Clark Thompson in Reply #3 says he is in an Arminian church and it holds true to Scriptures and I am sure there are many churches like his. However when a church steps into the dark side it is likely going to be an Arminian church not a Calvinist church.


There are also people who say that they are the Christ returned. People say a lot of things but as the Scriptures say we will know them by their fruits, in other words it's not what you say it's what you do. I've heard it said that Spurgeon's felt that it would be surprising to him if more than 20% of his congregation were Christians.

[calluna]

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The point of having a large denomination with a central leadership is that the qualifications, and selection of church leaders inside that denomination is determined by the central leadership. Calvinism has no defined leadership, in fact it has no denomination defining it.

But there are many denominations specifying Calvinist interpretation of Scripture in their statements of faith, which means that there can be no legitimate expression of non-Calvinist views within those bodies.

Most Calvinist churches don't even call himself Calvinist, sometimes the members of the church themselves don't even realize that they are members of the Calvinist church. Sometimes you can determine by checking the church's website and looking at their statement of faith and sometimes you can't. A couple years back I attended a church four times and everyone I ask in the church if they were Calvinist they responded with the same line, "we are Bible believing church". I finally had to take the pastor out to lunch and actually quiz him to determine that he was in fact a Calvinist.

Which difficulty prompts the question of why Calvinism is of theological or practical importance. We have the anomalous situation of Calvinist interpretations stated to be required tenets of faith, while supposed subscribers to those tenets are apparently not even aware of those tenets.

[Zant Law]

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But there are many denominations specifying Calvinist interpretation of Scripture in their statements of faith, which means that there can be no legitimate expression of non-Calvinist views within those bodies.

Not so, Calvinist do not teach that acceptance of Calvinism is necessary for salvation. And I have never seen a Calvinist church turned away a christian from it's doors. Calvinism has been demonized over the years and I think that is the reason most churches that are Calvinist do not advertised that fact.

Which difficulty prompts the question of why Calvinism is of theological or practical importance. We have the anomalous situation of Calvinist interpretations stated to be required tenets of faith, while supposed subscribers to those tenets are apparently not even aware of those tenets.

That is a good question and it is the crux of the original post. Why is it that when men believe that they have the ability to choose between right and wrong without the help of our Creator they also believe that they have the ability to determine what is best for them and begin saying things like,  'the Bible is only a roadmap and should not be taken literally'?

 So why is it important? What did Christ say about building your house on sand?

 What was Paul's instructions on sound doctrine.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine ; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

ZLaw

[calluna]

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Not so, Calvinist do not teach that acceptance of Calvinism is necessary for salvation.

They insist on signed agreement with Calvinist teaching by members, which may be considered tantamount to practice of justification by works. This stance of course excludes from membership people who do not agree with Calvinism. So expression of non-Calvinist views within those bodies cannot be legitimate. One cannot preach sola fide and sola Scriptura, then start making exceptions when one starts one's church. One must either accept all views, or not bother with Christianity at all.

You attended a particular church four times, and even then, could not discover the position of the members on Calvinism. Assuming that this actually was a Calvinist body, and these people knew that it was, the attitude seems to be of ashamedness of Calvinism. This is probably confirmed if many churches are no longer advertising Calvinism. It's nonsense to say that Calvinism is bravely standing up to women pastors etc. if they cannot even justify their distinctive theology! Of course, this congregation may not have agreed with Calvinism at all, and the poor beleaguered pastor was having to be careful what he said in public.

It might be added that exclusion of women, subtly or even officially, is by no means unusual, even today; that very many non-religious people are opposed to abortion and homosexuality (despite the relentless brainwashing of the media); and that paederasty is illegal. So it's no big deal if Calvinists (if that's what they really are) oppose such things. To commend a faith on the grounds of its basic human decency is almost like admission of failure.