Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
The doctrine of the Trinity
michaelf:
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
calluna:
--- Quote from: macuser on July 01, 2013, 03:25:54 pm ---There are those that say the word trinity is not in the Bible. Yet most Christians believe in the existence of one God in three forms or persons.
--- End quote ---
Forms, maybe. The word 'person' means 'individual'; that which cannot be divided, a singularity. To take personal responsibility means that responsibility is not shared with any other. So surely, if people believe in a pantheon of three persons, they are polytheist. To say, "Three persons in one person," or "Three persons are one person," or "Three persons is one person," which is in effect what Trinitarianism states, is gobbledegook. It doesn't even make grammatical sense. Or mathematical sense. No wonder a million priests have called it 'a mystery'! No doubt some evangelicals say that they believe in 'the Trinity', but they have not actually thought about it.
It's actually more of a myth, not a mystery. There are over 700,000 words in the Bible, and not one of them can be translated as 'trinity'; and nowhere is deity said to exist in more than one person. On the contrary:
'"You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."' Isa 44:8 NIV
The nearest word for this purpose one can get from the Bible, OT and NT, translates to something like 'face' or 'presence', and the Greek use, prosopa, or faces, from πρόσωπον, was used even by the false teachers who displaced apostolic teaching by dint of imperial appointment. The Greek word can translate to personas or personae (plural of persona), the Latin form of the Greek now used in English. So one may reasonably talk of the personas of the one deity, in reference to God as Father and Holy Spirit because of atonement, atonement achieved by the Son. All of one person! Jesus claimed to possess all three of them when he commanded the disciples to baptise in the name (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. His emphasis here was not at all on water baptism, but on his own utter and total authority, now his because he had completed atonement. Trinitarians tend to reverse that emphasis, in practice.
So Trinitarianism is ok provided it does not indicate that three discrete, individual beings are all divine. But in practice it very rarely does not do so, imv. It seems to be used by people who favour works justification, and do not savour talk of the gospel. The Christian, otoh, talks about Christ, and his gospel that sets the sinner free, by faith. Jesus, Paul, John, James and Jude, as well as Moses and the prophets, taught 'the whole will of God' without using this word, and its use should therefore be regarded with suspicion.
macuser:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 03, 2013, 09:28:18 am ---
'"You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."' Isa 44:8 NIV
--- End quote ---
Interesting point if there is only one God, and Christ is God then they must be the same.
Fat posted a the thread earlier concerning a similar analogy on our Savior. The Old Testament tells us that there is only one Savior, and that Savior is God. Later on in the New Testament we see that that Savior is Jesus Christ. How could this be unless they are the same?
OT
Isaiah 43:11 NAS
"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
Isaiah 45:21 NAS
"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old ? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD ? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior ; There is none except Me.
NT
Luke 2:11 NAS
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Acts 13:23 NAS
"From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,
calluna:
--- Quote from: macuser on July 03, 2013, 12:19:10 pm ---Interesting point if there is only one God, and Christ is God then they must be the same.
Fat posted a the thread earlier concerning a similar analogy on our Savior. The Old Testament tells us that there is only one Savior, and that Savior is God. Later on in the New Testament we see that that Savior is Jesus Christ. How could this be unless they are the same?
OT
Isaiah 43:11 NAS
"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
Isaiah 45:21 NAS
"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old ? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD ? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior ; There is none except Me.
NT
Luke 2:11 NAS
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Acts 13:23 NAS
"From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,
--- End quote ---
That's a good piece of exegesis, thank you.
Frank T:
Question is a belief in the Trinity necessary for salvation?
Can someone accept Christ and receive salvation without believing that he is actually part of a trinity or one God?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version