Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
The doctrine of the Trinity
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: Domenic on February 04, 2015, 04:01:43 pm ---Well, lets look at a few things Jesus said, and what God said.
1) "The Father is greater than I."
2) "Why do you call me good? Only the Father is good."
3) “Father, why have you forsaken me?”
4) He prayed to his father all night.
5) God said, “This is my beloved son.”
6) Jesus was the first born of all creation…God was never born, or created.
These are just a few off the top of my head.
--- End quote ---
The KJV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made .
And He (Christ) is the radiance of His (Father) glory and the exact representation of His (Father) nature, and upholds all things by the word of His (Son) power. When He had made purification of sins, He (Son) sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Do you understand the concept of God becoming flesh? Do you understand that the sacrifice of a created being will not cover your sins. Is Christ NOT good in your mind?
You made him lower than the angels for a short time; You crowned him with glory and honor
But we do see Jesus- made lower than the angels for a short time so that by God's grace He might taste death for everyone-crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death.
We have a thread going on this subject that will keep us from rehashing points already made on this forum.
http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,653.60.html
Zant Law:
--- Quote from: Fat on February 04, 2015, 09:44:40 am ---I found this on the Internet and it is not sourced. I don't know who to credit it to, please if you know post the author.
--- End quote ---
Robertsons word pictures
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-1-1.html
Domenic:
ZANT,
Your post does not answer these:
1) "The Father is greater than I."
2) "Why do you call me good? Only the Father is good."
3) “Father, why have you forsaken me?”
4) He prayed to his father all night.
5) God said, “This is my beloved son.”
6) Jesus was the first born of all creation…God was never born, or created.
1) Jesus is not saying, "I am greater than I."
2) Jesus is not saying, "Why do you call me good? Only I am good."
3) Jesus is not saying, " Self, why have you forsaken yourself."
4) Jesus did not pry to himself.
5) God did not say, "This is my beloved me."
6) Jesus was created...the first born. God was not created, or born.
Yes Jesus was a God. The word God is a title, not a name. Satan is the God of this system of things. God has a name, YHWH.
Zant Law:
Not going to redo that thread so here is a cut n' paste (not my work) Your bible is in conflict with its self because of it's interpretation of John 1
Jesus, Who is He?
Jesus has two natures at the same time: divine and human at the same time. He is both God and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). This is called the Hypostatic Union.
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35).
"He was born under the Law (Gal. 4:4) and fulfilled all of the Law of God (John 4:34; 8:29), even to the point of death (Phil. 2:8)."
In His death He bore the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (Gal. 3:13). Thus in the death of Christ the sins of His people were judged (Rom. 3:23-26) and forgotten (Heb. 8:12), and the result of His act of righteousness was eternal life (Rom. 5:18).
Jesus is worshiped (Matt. 2:2, 11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6).
Jesus is prayed to (Acts 7:55-60; Psalm 116:4 with 1 Cor. 1:1-2).
Jesus is called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
He is the creator (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17); Jesus is uncreated (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17).
Verses showing Jesus is divine
He is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; 8:58 with Exodus 3:14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8).
John 1:1, 14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us . . . "
This shows that Jesus is God in flesh.
If you say that John 1:1 should be "a" god, then . . .
If Jesus is "a" god, then isn't that polytheism?
If Jesus is "a" god, then how many gods are there in JW theology?
If Jesus is "a" god, then is he a true God or false god since the Bible says there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8)? If Jesus is "a" god, then why does he tell people to come to him and not the Father (Matt. 11:28)?
John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'" With Exodus 3:14 "God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you."
Jesus uses the same title for Himself that God uses of Himself.
If you say that the verse is really "I have been," then why did the Jews want to kill
him--especially when in John 10:30-33 they say they want to kill Him because He claimed to be God? Where and what did Jesus say to cause them to think that?
John 10:30-33, "'I and the Father are one.' 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, 'I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?' 33 The Jews answered Him, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.'"
Re: John 10:30-33, What was Jesus saying that caused the Jews to accuse Jesus of claiming to be God? If you can't say, then you don't know the text or the culture well enough to address the issue of Christ's deity.
John 20:28
In John 20:28, Thomas called Jesus God by saying to Jesus, "My Lord and My God." If Jesus is not God, then why did Jesus not correct Thomas? Three verses later it says that this is written, so you might believe that Jesus is the son of God (John 20:31). Therefore, we can see that the term Son of God is saying that Jesus is God.
Col. 2:9, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."
Phil. 2:5-7, "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."
Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [The Father] says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever
and ever . . . "
If Jesus is not God, why does God Himself call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?
This is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which has the best translation of "Thy Throne O
God . . . "
Other Verses
John 10:30-33, "'I and the Father are one.' 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, 'I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?' 33 The Jews answered Him, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.'"
Notice the Jews said, "You being a man, make yourself out to be God." What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to say that Jesus was claiming to be God in John 10:30-33? If you don't know, then you don't understand.
Regarding John 10:30-33, if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then you are agreeing with the Jews who killed Christ because they did not accept who He really was.
Col. 1:15-16, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."
Firstborn is a transferrable title and does not necessitate being first created. Proof of this can be seen where Manasseh is the first born (Gen. 41:51-52) and then his brother Ephraim is called the firstborn (Jer. 31:9).
Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fathers house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
1 Cor. 1:2, "To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours."
Why is the phrase, "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God in the OT and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (Greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
The LXX is the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament done by Jews around 200 B.C.
Psalm 116:4, "Then I called upon the name of the Lord [YHWH]: "O Lord [YHWH], I beseech Thee, save my life!"
The literal translation of 1 Cor. 1:2 is " . . . call upon the name of the Lord of us Jesus Christ."
Son of God, Son of Man
Does the term "Son of God" mean that Jesus is not God? If so, then does the term "Son of Man" mean that Jesus is not a man?
Likewise, if the term "Son of Man" means that Jesus is a man, then what does the term "Son of God" imply?
The Resurrection of Christ
Jesus rose in the same body that He died in (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:36-43). Jesus' body is resurrected. We do not know exactly what His body is like, but the nature of the resurrected body is discussed by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:35-58.
John 2:19-21, "Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.' 20 The Jews replied, It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days? 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body."
Luke 24:39, "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Right now Jesus is in heaven still as, and eternally to be, both God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Col. 2:9).
This is important because Jesus is the High Priest forever: "where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek" (Heb. 6:20). A spirit cannot be a high priest; only a man can do that. Furthermore, Jesus always lives to make intercession for us: "Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them" (Heb. 7:25).
Domenic:
When Jesus was in Jerusalem, 3,000 people were baptized. Jesus said to his father (YHWH), “Let these be one with me, as I am one with you.” Are those 3,000 also God?
You referred to the JW bible in your last post. You should not assume I am a JW…I am not. I am a member of no religion. I believe in God the father, YHWH, his son, my Lord Jesus, Gods written word, and the scrolls the bible was taken from.
Since the scrolls are what the bible is taken from, the two should match, word for word. I have examined copies of the scrolls…these scrolls are the apex of Gods word. When they found, and examined the dead sea scrolls (which are older than the scrolls they took the bible from) they were over joyed the match was perfect. The only difference they found, is the bible did have some changes.
Have you read the scrolls? You should read them. Some 50 books were left out of the bible. Books that were used by Christians in Jesus day. One is the books of Enoch. Enoch is in the bible 3 times. He was the 7th from Adam, and the great grandfather of Noah. Enoch was loved by God. In his scrolls he tells what took place before the flood, and who did what.
I am not trying to change how, or what you believe. I simply asked a question. What I posted is in the bible, and also in the scrolls. Somehow the scrolls do not match what religions are teaching. Thus I find I must follow what the scrolls say.
Read, and think on these again. Ask, "Why do they not match other scriptures I have read? What do the scrolls say?"
1) "The Father is greater than I."
2) "Why do you call me good? Only the Father is good."
3) “Father, why have you forsaken me?”
4) He prayed to his father all night.
5) God said, “This is my beloved son.”
6) Jesus was the first born of all creation…God was never born, or created.
1) Jesus is not saying, "I am greater than I."
2) Jesus is not saying, "Why do you call me good? Only I am good."
3) Jesus is not saying, " Self, why have you forsaken yourself."
4) Jesus did not pry to himself.
5) God did not say, "This is my beloved me."
6) Jesus was created...the first born. God was not created, or born.
Yes Jesus was a God. The word God is a title, not a name. Satan is the God of this system of things. God has a name, YHWH.
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