Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
The doctrine of the Law
calluna:
There are two types of moral law; perhaps three. There is natural law, with which we are all born. We soon feel hunger, pain and discomfort. This long ago developed into recognition of the crimes of theft and violence that form the basis of all civil and criminal law, everywhere. It was the law that Abram recognised when he moved from Ur. It was the law that he had in mind when he refused to make improper gain of wealth. It was the law that forced his nephew Lot's escape from Sodom, and the law that destroyed that city. It was the law that Joseph's brothers were conscious of when they were stirred to anger by the rape of their sister Dinah. It was the law that Joseph's brothers were conscious of when they prepared to leave him in a pit. So there was no original absence of law. These moral events and millions more took place before Moses was even born.
It was the law that, by his faith, Abram obeyed, and it is the law that the sons of Abraham obey now. The law that faithful Sarah obeyed is the law that the daughters of Sarah obey now.
What did Jesus say about that law?
'"Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."' Mt 19:8 NIV
Now leniency was not just for marriages, it was for everything in the law of Moses; which is the second kind of law. The Mosaic commandment said, 'Do not murder.' But Jesus said, "Do not even hate." The Mosaic commandment said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But Jesus said, "Do not even lust." And his firmly Mosaic disciples wondered if this was all too much.
So natural law, if observed by the tender conscience, is more searching, and more effective than Mosaic law, because it scrutinises motives. "Is my motive to love, or not?" That is the question that every human mind should ask, many times, every day; but Satan will certainly try to persuade that the Law of Moses, or even no law at all, is easier, and acceptable.
For those who, through faith, possess the mind of Christ, natural law is 'extended', prompted by the love of Christ, and by gratitude for the forgiveness that is obtained by his sacrifice. So, because of atonement, Paul could write:
'Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.' Eph 4:31-32 NIV
Hal:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 08, 2013, 03:34:43 am ---There are two types of moral law; perhaps three. There is natural law, with which we are all born. We soon feel hunger, pain and discomfort. This long ago developed into recognition of the crimes of theft and violence that form the basis of all civil and criminal law, everywhere. It was the law that Abram recognised when he moved from Ur. It was the law that he had in mind when he refused to make improper gain of wealth. It was the law that forced his nephew Lot's escape from Sodom, and the law that destroyed that city. It was the law that Joseph's brothers were conscious of when they were stirred to anger by the rape of their sister Dinah. It was the law that Joseph's brothers were conscious of when they prepared to leave him in a pit. So there was no original absence of law. These moral events and millions more took place before Moses was even born.
It was the law that, by his faith, Abram obeyed, and it is the law that the sons of Abraham obey now. The law that faithful Sarah obeyed is the law that the daughters of Sarah obey now.
What did Jesus say about that law?
'"Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."' Mt 19:8 NIV
Now leniency was not just for marriages, it was for everything in the law of Moses; which is the second kind of law. The Mosaic commandment said, 'Do not murder.' But Jesus said, "Do not even hate." The Mosaic commandment said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But Jesus said, "Do not even lust." And his firmly Mosaic disciples wondered if this was all too much.
So natural law, if observed by the tender conscience, is more searching, and more effective than Mosaic law, because it scrutinises motives. "Is my motive to love, or not?" That is the question that every human mind should ask, many times, every day; but Satan will certainly try to persuade that the Law of Moses, or even no law at all, is easier, and acceptable.
For those who, through faith, possess the mind of Christ, natural law is 'extended', prompted by the love of Christ, and by gratitude for the forgiveness that is obtained by his sacrifice. So, because of atonement, Paul could write:
'Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.' Eph 4:31-32 NIV
--- End quote ---
So how does a person know the deference between God's will (law) and the desires of the flesh? If there was no laws concerning marriage how would you know what was God's desire?
Paul put it this way:
Romans 7:7 (NAS) What shall we say then ? Is the Law sin ? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law ; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
If the law that is written on your heart conflicts with the scriptures what do you do? Which law do you follow?
Hal
calluna:
--- Quote from: Hal on July 08, 2013, 09:54:28 am ---
So how does a person know the deference between God's will (law) and the desires of the flesh?
--- End quote ---
By their outcomes if taken to their conclusions. So it is not enough to stop short at murder, if one is seething with anger, and does not commit murder for fear of breaking divine law (or criminal law, for that matter). Similarly with lust, that leads to actual sexual associations if indulged. And covetousness, if indulged, leads to theft. So Jesus was saying that, while the body may escape punishment, the conscience cannot. So Mosaic Law dealt with obvious bodily sin that led to visible crimes, but the law of Christ 'penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart' (Heb 4:12 NIV). In other words, the life of the Spirit is one of searching out every last motive and exposing it, so that every motive is pure. Sanctification is the process of uncovering all sinful motives, and replacing them with the motives of Christ.
--- Quote ---If there was no laws concerning marriage how would you know what was God's desire?
--- End quote ---
By awareness that adultery is unfaithfulness to, betrayal of, one's spouse. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph had one wife at at one time (leaving aside the trick of Laban), so it may be supposed that they understood this. What needs to be realised is that God's law is based not on damage done to God, but on damage done to people. God acts on behalf of people rather than his own interests.
But the mind of man is clouded by desire. 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can understand it?' So we may tell ourselves that covetousness, jealousy, bitterness and unkindness are ok, whereas, when we see that deity points them out as sinful, we sit up and take due note. Hence Paul's comments, in Romans and in Ephesians.
Hal:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 08, 2013, 11:23:27 am ---What needs to be realised is that God's law is based not on damage done to God, but on damage done to people. God acts on behalf of people rather than his own interests.
--- End quote ---
Biblical reference please.
--- Quote from: calluna on July 08, 2013, 11:23:27 am ---But the mind of man is clouded by desire. 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can understand it?' So we may tell ourselves that covetousness, jealousy, bitterness and unkindness are ok, whereas, when we see that deity points them out as sinful, we sit up and take due note. Hence Paul's comments, in Romans and in Ephesians.
--- End quote ---
Agreed but the problem comes with your natural law that why the question which you did not respond to.
--- Quote from: calluna on July 08, 2013, 11:23:27 am ---For those who, through faith, possess the mind of Christ, natural law is 'extended', prompted by the love of Christ, and by gratitude for the forgiveness that is obtained by his sacrifice.
--- End quote ---
If the law that is written on your heart conflicts with the scriptures what do you do? Which law do you follow?
Maybe I am reading this wrong, maybe you are telling me that because of faith in Christ, Christ empowers a person with an infallible knowledge of the law that humans can not misunderstand or confuse with the desires of the world?
Does the Holy Ghost impart infallible knowledge of the law?
--- Quote from: calluna ---So natural law, if observed by the tender conscience, is more searching, and more effective than Mosaic law, because it scrutinises motives. "Is my motive to love, or not?" That is the question that every human mind should ask, many times, every day; but Satan will certainly try to persuade that the Law of Moses, or even no law at all, is easier, and acceptable.
--- End quote ---
In the Sriptures it appears you show your love by keeping God's commandments.
John 14:15 NAS
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:10 NAS
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love ; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Why does God put Himself before you and your neighbor?
luke 10:27 And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Jack Koons:
Has anyone considered that the 'law' written on our hearts is the exact same 'law' given to Moses?
When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is how they realized their sin. The purpose of the law is to identify sin. Our very conscience is the Law of God written on our hearts. The problem of course is that with 1) false teaching as to what God's Law is or isn't; and 2) the ability of our wicked deceitful hearts to 'excuse' the sin we commit, we have the ability to 'impress' our our will over the law of God.
That is why the same law has been presented to 'all', making is all guilty before God. Whether the law was written on our hearts, or written in stone, or even on paper; it is still the same condemning law.
Jack
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