Bible Talk > Sound doctrine
What about those who have never heard the gospel?
calluna:
--- Quote from: Jack Koons on July 10, 2013, 06:36:58 am ---"There are few today who have not heard or read the gospel, certainly in Western countries, especially in the USA, where the uniquely religious origin and history of that country is, for some, an obsession. So the need to evangelise is not necessary, in many parts of the world. As in the West, Latin America has many 'evangelists' who pervert the gospel, but at least it is there. Africa is aware of the gospel, perhaps more than most continents. Even in China, where Christianity has been discouraged, the gospel is well known. It is only in sharia countries and in the remotest parts that people can be found who are unaware that Christ died for them."
Calluna,
There are two things in the above statement I would like to address:
1) "evangelism is not necessary".
--- End quote ---
It is surely completely redundant, if it is felt necessary to misquote.
Jack Koons:
Calluna,
The entire sentence written was, "So the need to evangelise is not necessary, in many parts of the world."
With people moving around in the world as much as they are today, you have no absolute way to know who has, or hasn't heard what. Unless of course you can give me a scripture reference stating we are no longer obligated to go to a specific region? That was the intent of your statement, was it not?
Jack
Jack Koons:
Zant stated:
"OK Jack we'll do it backward for you and attack the last half first.
John 14:15 KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Matthew 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Either you love Christ or you don't.
Now Jack can you see a way to salvation other than what has been given to us in Scripture? If not the answer to your question is, they will got to hell.
I am out of here Jack, you run from the Scripture like most Arminians.
P.S. the Church of Rome can be found in Rev 17"
Well Zant,
Let's deal with this:
"John 14:15 KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments."
For this verse you stated:
"Either you love Christ or you don't."
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The law made up of the commandments. So what your saying is, "Either you love Christ or you don't"; which means, if you keep "all" of the commandments, you love Christ; or if you don't keep "all" the commandments, you don't.
1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in onepoint, he is guilty of all.
Now Zant, you said, "Either you love Christ or you don't".
So either you keep "all" the commandments, or you don't.
You are presented with two problems: 1) say you keep "all" the commandments, and are without sin (showing that you are 'deceiving yourself, and the truth is not in you [1 John 1:8]); or, say that you only offend in one point (or maybe two), and then you end up being guilty of all (James 2:10).
So you're left in a position where either there is no truth in you, or you're a sinner: all to avoid one question: what is the responsibility of not obeying God command to go present the gospel, or what is the consequence of disobedience of the Christian?
"Matthew 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
To which you said:
"Now Jack can you see a way to salvation other than what has been given to us in Scripture? If not the answer to your question is, they will got to hell."
Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
This text is very clear; the text presents the working of salvation in reverse order, working from salvation backward:
1) For whosoever shall call upon The Lord shall be saved.
2) They cannot call unless they believe.
3) They cannot believe if they have not heard.
4) They cannot hear without a preacher.
5) The preacher canning preach, unless he is sent.
And what is he preaching?
Eph. 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
6) Not all that hear the "preached" gospel believe. (They must choose to believe, or not believe.)
The conclusion:
7) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Zant, there are the scriptures.
Then you said:
"I am out of here Jack, you run from the Scripture like most Arminians.
P.S. the Church of Rome can be found in Rev 17"
I just presented scriptures, you never answered my questioned, What is the consequence of disobeying God in not going and preaching the gospel, causing people not to hear the gospel, resulting in them not being able to be saved?
The Catholic Church is known as the Catholic Church, (you can Google it for yourself if you want to).
Jack
calluna:
--- Quote from: Jack Koons on July 10, 2013, 11:18:25 am ---Calluna,
The entire sentence written was, "So the need to evangelise is not necessary, in many parts of the world."
--- End quote ---
So why make up a comment of your own, and put it into quote marks?
Due to the supportive presence of criminals lingering here, you will doubtless remain yourself. But you will have no credibility with others.
Jack Koons:
Calluna,
I admit that I ACCIDENTALLY misquoted you, because rather than do a "cut and paste", I actually tried to quote you from memory.
My misquote was, "evangelism is not necessary"; the actual statement was,
"So the need to evangelise is not necessary, in many parts of the world."
With that said, I believe an explanation (from you) concerning the justification of your actual statement:
"So the need to evangelise is not necessary, in many parts of the world."
1) Exactly what part of the world is "the need to evangelize" "not necessary"?
2) What scripture reference do you have to justify this statement?
Jack
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