Bible Talk > General
Can a mon-believer lead others to Christ?
JB Horn:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 16, 2013, 09:11:44 am ---Yes, of course it's important. But how many are actually justified when they die? Or are many, like the people whom James addressed, merely going through the motions? And is a group of nominalist 'Christians' not a wonderful gain for Satan? How many have been persuaded that Christ is useless by by apparently devout but actually useless 'Christians' who show no fruits of the Spirit? Or at least, given an excuse not to believe? There has been dark method in evangelisation by false apostles.
--- End quote ---
By this I presume that you don't believe that a person receives the Holy Ghost when they are saved. And that you believe that once you are save you can lose your salvation. Also you believe that justification comes after or at the time of death.
Am I wrong in my presumption?
calluna:
--- Quote from: JB Horn on July 16, 2013, 09:48:38 am ---By this I presume that you don't believe that a person receives the Holy Ghost when they are saved.
--- End quote ---
Can you prove that you think like that? Or do we here witness a malicious Calvinist smear?
You've got form, Horn. As the police say.
JB Horn:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 16, 2013, 09:59:17 am ---Can you prove that you think like that? Or do we here witness a malicious Calvinist smear?
You've got form, Horn. As the police say.
--- End quote ---
You got it from God as the police say.
Matthew 3:11 CSB
"I baptize you with water for repentance, but the One who is coming after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to take off His sandals. He Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 14:26 CSB
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit-the Father will send Him in My name-will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.
John 16:7 CSB
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don't go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send Him to you.
Acts 1:5 CSB
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 11:14 CSB
He will speak words to you by which you and all your household will be saved.' 15 "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came down on them, just as on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
biblebuf:
--- Quote from: calluna on July 16, 2013, 09:11:44 am ---Yes, of course it's important. But how many are actually justified when they die? Or are many, like the people whom James addressed, merely going through the motions? And is a group of nominalist 'Christians' not a wonderful gain for Satan? How many have been persuaded that Christ is useless by apparently devout but actually useless 'Christians' who show no fruits of the Spirit? Or at least, given an excuse not to believe? There has been dark method in evangelisation by false apostles.
--- End quote ---
Something you don't seem to understand here, you're brought to your salvation by the Holy Spirit not by any man. John 6:44-45, 65
Salvation comes from the hearing of the gospel not on who you hear it from.
calluna:
--- Quote from: JB Horn on July 16, 2013, 10:29:53 am ---You got it from God as the police say.
--- End quote ---
Like this?
'The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.' Gal 5:6 NIV
Or is it actually heresy? Is the love bit, where people do not lie about others, not actually required?
Is there any purpose to this OP other than bald Calvinist propaganda?
For those who are not OSAS adherents, the following makes perfect sense:
How many institutionalised converts are actually justified when they die? Or are many, like the people whom James addressed, merely going through the motions? And is a group of nominalist 'Christians' not a wonderful gain for Satan? How many have been persuaded that Christ is useless by apparently devout but actually useless 'Christians' who show no fruits of the Spirit? Or at least, given an excuse not to believe? There has been dark method in evangelisation by false apostles.
For those who believe in OSAS, who, unlike James, Peter and indeed Paul, believe that people can be saved despite having no fruits of the Spirit, not all of the above is true. Indeed, one might suppose that Calvinism encourages false teachers who display lack of love for their congregations, telling them that they are going to heaven, whatever the hell they do.
That appears to be that. ;)
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