Bible Talk > Sound doctrine

The Soul and the Spirit

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Fat:

--- Quote from: Alexander Winslow on July 26, 2014, 07:41:15 pm ---As for the Abraham/Lazarus account, this is a metaphorical example and not an actuality because Abraham is still dead in the ground; proved by the fact that Jesus is stated as the first-born from the dead!

--- End quote ---

Hello Alex

Yes it is a 'metaphorical example', you should take the time to study it.

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said , Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted , and thou art tormented.

My salvation is secure Alex, how about yours?

Add these for thought.

Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:10 ESV
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 14:11 ESV

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Revelation 19:20 ESV
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Alexander Winslow:
Hello Fat,

Thank you for your interesting comment, which is also based on illustrative scriptures and not actual. The reason one can be so confident in this is because as I have already confirmed by the words of Almighty God himself that a 'soul' is not immortal and its thoughts perish at the moment of death.

“Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalm 146:4) King James Version (KJV) [King James I of England 1611 A.D.] 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

Now anything opposite to this is in exact contradiction, yet neither Almighty God nor his inspired word the Bible; contradicts. If it did, then it would not be the inspired word of God!

Common sense reasoning also confirms that for anything to be in torment forever and ever would in the first instance need to bee immortal, which contradicts the whole issue. Also, if one had an immortal soul, then when one died, one's soul would automatically go somewhere else so there would have been no need for Christ Jesus to arrive as the anointed Liberator from Adamic death!

You say that your salvation is is secure, secure from what?

I say this because if you have studied the Bible in its entirety, you would know that at this moment in time; the only ones who are 'saved' are Christ's anointed 'little flock' to whom the kingdom of the heavens belongs; no one else! (Luke 12:31)

Since Adam, all the rest of mankind right down to today; remains 'dead' in God's eyes. This is confirmed in Jesus' words to one who was ready to follow him as one of the anointed but wished to bury his Father first; to which Jesus replied: "Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

So you see, salvation for the rest of us is still not assured; this is confirmed in Revelation where we read that at the establishment of this anointed 'little flock' who are of the 'first' resurrection:

“…And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 This is the first resurrection. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the end of the thousand years.” [This is the second resurrection (Acts 24:15)] (Revelation 20:4, 5) NMTCS

So here we have the Bible confirmation that the rest of the dead [mankind] right back as far as Adam, do not come to life in God's eyes until the end of the Millennial Rule of the Christ. This is actually the whole point of the 'second chance' for the whole of mankind since Adams transgression in Eden.

So bottom line, outside of the anointed heavenly 'little flock'; no one will receive salvation until the end of the Sabbath Millennium when the sheep and the goats are separated and Satan along with the goats  is destroyed.

This is the Bible speaking, not me.

Alexander

 

Fat:

--- Quote ---Thank you for your interesting comment, which is also based on illustrative scriptures and not actual. The reason one can be so confident in this is because as I have already confirmed by the words of Almighty God himself that a 'soul' is not immortal and its thoughts perish at the moment of death.

“Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalm 146:4) King James Version (KJV) [King James I of England 1611 A.D.] 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
--- End quote ---

WOW! there cowboy, you lost the right to quote from these translations calling them corrupt.

--- Quote from:  From your post on    "The doctrine of the Trinity" ---As  Al Quran states: "It is an undeniable fact that the Bible got corrupted over time, so our brothers should leave the corrupted Old and New Testaments and come towards the uncorrupted Final Testament."

--- End quote ---

Please use القرآن for your reference, sense you trust it as truth over the translations you quoted.

Does the Al Quran and the NMTCS define the second death? We know that the translations you're using here do define the second death, as I posted above.

FYI the most accurate english translate is the NAS. 

Alexander Winslow:
Fat,

So what is your point?

The translations are correct in as much as they follow the original Greek and Hebrew, the point I am making is that anyone who claims the belief in the soul being immortal when Almighty God has declared that it is not; is in exact opposition to him!

Also, I find that many a belief is erroneously stated mainly because the reader has failed to discern the context in which the scripture is written. Remember, the Bible is harmonious throughout; therefore Almighty God will not declare one thing in one place and then contradict it in another. This is why we are counseled by the Apostle Paul to acquire understanding in all things pertaining to the scriptures.

As for the 'second death' I have already defined this along with the New Millennium Translation of Corrected Scripture [NMTCS],

Oddly enough, although I am not of their persuasion, the most accurate Translation to-date is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The New Millennium Translation of Corrected Scripture is and independent on-going reference for the whole of the Bible by Squires Publishing.

Check your NAS with Young's Analytical Concordance of the Holy Bible and see how accurately is checks out.

I can tell you now, compared to the NWT and NMTCS; there are many 'errors' in this translation. For instance: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?" (Matthew 23:33) NAS

This is an incorrect translation, it should read: "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?" (Matthew 23:33) NWT NMTCS

The point here is that your Bible like most translations is still using the archaic word 'hell' which has been used for centuries to blanket four different words with three different meanings.

e.g.
(1)   HELL  : (Hebrew - Sheol) The unseen state [grave]
(2)   HELL  : (Greek - Hades)  The unseen world [grave]
(3)   HELL : (Hebrew)  Gehenna (Heb) (Valley of Hinnom) [Second Death]
(4)   HELL : (Greek) Tartarus (To cast down) [Angelic Incarceration]

When I am often asked: "How do I know if I am holding an accurate copy of the Bible?" I reply: "If you can find the 'hell' even once in your translation, you have an inaccurate copy."

Alexander

Fat:

--- Quote from: Alexander Winslow on July 27, 2014, 09:29:54 am ---When I am often asked: "How do I know if I am holding an accurate copy of the Bible?" I reply: "If you can find the 'hell' even once in your translation, you have an inaccurate copy."
--- End quote ---

Hell is an English word used as a translation of the word you translate as Gehenna, nothing more. It's like the stake and the cross. the old Greek had no word for cross but history shows us that the Romans of Christ time used a cross.

Let me prove to you that your NWT is flawed, I posted a topic long time back that ask your JW's a question about a major inconsistency in your NWT. It does revolve around John 1 (a god) if you use the NAS you have one Savior and one God but the NWT gives you two of each, which their NWT says can not be.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors?

From my prior post http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg698.html#msg698

 As most people know the Jehovah's witnesses have rewritten the Bible for the sole purpose of separating Christ and God the Father. They still do not explain how they can have two saviors when in Isaiah 43:10-11 their own translation says, "YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

 In many verses in their translation of the Bible such as acts 13:23 they refer to the Savior of Israel as Jesus. It is repeated again and acts 5:31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And in 2 Timothy 1:10 they refer to the Savior as Jesus Christ. There are many more verses in the Bible such as first John 4:14, Titus 2:6-14, acts 4:9-12 Titus 1:1-16, 2 Timothy 1:10. Sometimes when the Savior is being referred to as Christ is in lower case and sometimes it is capitalized apparently for no rhyme or reason. It appears they've concentrated so hard on trying to divide the Father and the Son that they forgot that only one, according to the Father can be the savior of Israel.

1 John 4: (NWT)
14 In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world.

Titus 2: (NWT)
6 Likewise keep on exhorting the younger men to be sound in mind, 7 in all things showing yourself an example of fine works; showing uncorruptness in your teaching, seriousness, 8 wholesome speech which cannot be condemned; so that the man on the opposing side may get ashamed, having nothing vile to say about us. 9 Let slaves be in subjection to their owners in all things, and please them well, not talking back, 10 not committing theft, but exhibiting good fidelity to the full, so that they may adorn the teaching of our Savior, God, in all things.

Acts 4 (NWT)
9 if we are this day being examined, on the basis of a good deed to an ailing man, as to by whom this man has been made well, 10 let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom YOU impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of YOU. 11 This is ‘the stone that was treated by YOU builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’ 12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”

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