Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Bible Study => Topic started by: unknownservant on January 20, 2015, 04:21:08 pm
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I know that this is a controversial subject, but if you will read the following information with understanding, you will know 100 percent with no doubt that there is no rapture before or duing the tribulation of anti CHRIST. You will also be able to prove it easily to anyone. Also, this information shows you what your job is for JESUS during the hour of temption.
Disproving the rapture
1. Paul wrote Thessalonians.
2. Paul wrote Hebrews (Scholars agree).
3. Paul spoke Colloquial Greek (street Greek).
4. Look at the Colloquial Greek usage of the word Cloud in Hebrews 12:1.
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of
witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily
beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Here is the Strongs definition for the word Cloud in Hebrew 12:1:
G3509
νέφος
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
Notice how the word 'cloud' is used in a slang way.
If you can see this, then it means it's in the bag, you are on your way to understanding that there is no rapture.
Okay, so since we know that Paul talks that way, lets look at how Paul wrote 1st Thessalonians 4:17. Keep in mind though, that analyzing this verse does not disprove the rapture. We just need to be thorough in order to show people how the verse got misunderstood over the years. The context of The Bible and the chapters involved is what disproves the rapture.
Now look at 1st Thessalonians 4:17 (the verse most often used in rapture doctrine):
Without Strongs Numbers:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
With Strongs Numbers:
1Th 4:17 ThenG1899 weG2249 which are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 shall be caught
upG726 togetherG260 withG4862 themG846 inG1722 the clouds,G3507 to meetG1519
G529 theG3588 LordG2962 inG1519 the air:G109 andG2532 soG3779 shall we everG3842
beG2071 withG4862 the Lord.G2962
Notice the words 'caught up'. It's main definition is 'To Seize':
G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up),
pluck, pull, take (by force).
So, the words 'caught up' really isn't much different than what people who believe in a rapture think it means. For the knowledgeable person however, to seize or take by force stands out.
Now look at the word 'clouds'. It basically means a cloud, but remember that
Paul speaks Colloquial Greek, which is street Greek. Refer back to Hebrews 12:1
to see the usage of 'cloud' in the slang way in which Paul would use it. Here is the Strongs definition:
G3507
νεφέλη
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.
So, can you see how Paul is saying that we will be taken or seized by force into crowds of people?
Now, people may say that it could be read either way, but that's when you remind them that it is not analyzing this verse that disproves the rapture. We analyze this verse in order to be thorough.
Now, comes a very important part of this verse that puts the entire understanding of a rapture believing person on edge. It totally discredits or nullifies their understanding of it. But again, it does not disprove the rapture theory in itself.
Finally, look at the definition for 'air'. It means to breathe, like the breath
of life, not like atmosphere. Here is the definition:
G109
ἀήρ
aēr
ah-ayr'
From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow);
“air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.
Now, take a look at Genesis 2:7 where GOD breathed the breath of life into man. The original writing is in Hebrew, whereas 1st Thessalonians 4:17 is in Greek, but you can easily notice that the words mean the same things.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Here is the same verse with the Strongs definition numbers:
Gen 2:7 And the LORDH3068 GodH430 formedH3335 (H853) manH120 of the dustH6083 ofH4480 the ground,H127 and breathedH5301 into his nostrilsH639 the breathH5397 of life;H2416 and manH120 becameH1961 a livingH2416 soul.H5315
Now, the 'H' by the number means that the definition of the word is in Hebrew, whereas in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 the numbers are preceded by a 'G', which means that in the original manuscripts the words are in Greek.
Here is the definition for the word 'breath', as in breath of life. You can see that this word means basically the same thing as 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17.
H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.
So, the word 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 means our spirit.
Here is 1st Thesalonians 4:17 again:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So, using the definitions of the original Greek words as discussed above, this is what the verse would say using those meanings:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be seized (or taken by force) with them in the crowds, to meet the Lord in the spirit: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now lets look at two other verses in 1st Thessalonians:
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are
alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall
rise first:
Notice that it says that The LORD Returns with the Trump Of GOD! The Trump Of GOD
is the last or 7th Trump. You can read about it in Revelations. Revelations tell us that there are seven events that will come about that signal the end of the age. The seventh event is called the seventh trump, and is the last trump, or the Trump Of GOD.
Have a look:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
No where in GOD'S WORD does it state or indicate that JESUS comes back to this earth at any time or for any reason before that Trump sounds. So, since that is the case, we can say with surity that 1st Thessalonians 4:17 does not happen until that time. Also notice that the two verses regarding preventing those that are asleep and that describe the coming of the LORD at the TRUMP OF GOD are the verses right before 1st Thessalonians 4:17. They are verses 4:15 and 4:16. So, the scripture says right there before it tells us about gathering back to CHRIST when we gather back as well. We just need to read 'in context'!
As we proceed further, you will see that The Seventh Trump, The Last Trump, The TRUMP OF GOD does not happen until satan comes to this earth claiming to be GOD. This means that there is no rapture because no one gathers back to JESUS before satan gets here.
And why can't we 'Prevent' those that are asleep? It's because 'Prevent' actually
means 'Precede or Beforehand'. We can't precede them because they are already there.
Here is the Strongs definition for "Prevent":
G5348
φθάνω
phthanō
fthan'-o
Apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, that is, anticipate or precede; by extension to have arrived at: - (already) attain, come, prevent.
Now, if you study 1st Corinthian chapter 15, you will learn that as soon as this flesh body dies or when JESUS Returns, we are immediately in our Breath Of Life spirit body. It's an incorruptable body.
And as far as why we can't precede or be with JESUS before those that have died, well this verse makes it pretty clear:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
This verse shows that as soon as you are absent from the flesh body, you are ALREADY present with The LORD! That is why we can't prevent or more accurately precede those that are asleep.
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100 Percent Proof that there is No rapture (Part 2)
Now, I've actually decided to show 2 more verses in 1st Thessalonians. Here they are:
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write
unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief
in the night.
In verse 5:1, Paul is saying he doesn't need to write of the signs or seasons because they already know them. They are in Mathew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Daniel has a fair bit to say about them also.
Revelations is full of info on the end time!
So, now look at 5:2. When is the Day Of The LORD? It's at the end of this age when JESUS
returns at the 7th Trump (The Trump Of GOD)! That's the Millennium! And why does The LORD
return as a Thief in the night? Well, it's because the Night before the Day (THE LORD'S DAY)
is the hour of temptation and as a Thief because since many will believe that CHRIST has
already returned, they won't be watching or looking for HIM! Then they will wish for the
rocks to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of the LAMB!
We know from Revelation that satan is cast back to earth (along with his angels) at the
sixth Trump, and we also know that the last Trump is the Seventh Trump which is The Trump Of God!
At the Seventh Trump, CHRIST Returns! This is the start of The LORD'S DAY, which is the Millennium!
So you see, there is no rapture. The rapture is a doctrine from the 1800s that is not
Biblical. If you don't perk up and be knowledgeable of this, there is a chance that you will
fall for satan when he gets here because satan is anti- CHRIST. 'Anti' in the Greek means
'instead of', not against. satan will pretend to be CHRIST in order to deceive you! If you
follow him, you are taking the mark of the beast!
Luke 17: 34 to 37
The subject is the end time and all prophesies given in nights, moons, or months are of
satan. Prophesies given in days or solar years are always regarding GOD or GOD'S children.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,
and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever
the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. It is known here, that eagles should
have been translated as Vultures.
Since the subject is the night and the night relates to satan, this is right before or the night
before The LORD'S DAY. Since JESUS has not Returned yet, the one taken, is taken by anti- CHRIST
because they think he is JESUS Returned!
The key is that you understand the scriptures and that it is easy to see that if the subject is the night before the DAY, that the one taken is taken by anti CHRIST. These verses are often used to say there is a rapture. But it needs to be explained so that people see they missing the subject and are not understanding what it is saying.
The reason that the one taken is taken by anti CHRIST is that it is the Night before JESUS Returns, So, since JESUS isn't here yet, then if anyone is taken, then they could Only be taken by anti CHRIST!
All of this brings us to one conclusion:
If there is no rapture, what are we waiting for and what are we supposed to do?
The answer is that we are waiting for The TRUE CHRIST to return and we are supposed to put on the
Gospel Armour and prepare and do battle until HE returns! The Gospel Armour is in Ephesions 6!
If you read Mathew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see a set or list of events that take place
at the end time. It tells you exactly what to watch for and what to do (What YOUR job is for JESUS
at the end time!):
I'll tell you in a nutshell, but you should read the verses from one of those chapters so that you can
know for yourself (ALWAYS proof me out, never take man's word for anything! Always use The Bible
(GOD'S WORD) as your anchor in TRUTH!). Let's face it! Deception is running rampant at the end time.
There are more Bible translations than ever before and many Bible translations and Concordance's have
made changes that hide the real TRUTH of GOD'S WORD. Only use the original King James Version of
the Bible or you run the risk of being deceived.
1. Many shall come in CHRIST'S NAME, don't be deceived by them.
2. There will be wars and rumours of wars, but the end is not yet.
(This indicates that the time to perk up is when there is talk of peace. It says that when there are wars and rumours of wars that the end is not yet. So, that must mean when the wars and rumours of wars stop and peace is around, then perk up because the end is at hand.)
3. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
(Since 2011, there have been commotions or insurrections in many Middle East countries.
There are many wars also.)
4. There will be great earthquakes in diverse places, and famines, and pestilences; and signs from heaven.
(The Chili quake and the Japan quake and also varius other quakes.)
(The Tetrads coming up in 2014 and 2015.)
(These are the beginnings of sorrows (birth pains).)
5. They shall lead you and deliver you up to councils, but take no thought beforehand what you will say,
for THE HOLY SPIRIT will speak through you for a testamony against them. (This is your end time Job!)
If it clearly says that you will be delivered upto death (which is the devil), then how can you be raptured
out? Do you think that GOD will speak through a deceived person or non believer? I don't think so!
6. The abomination of desolation (the devil) will stand in Jeruselem claiming to be JESUS.
Remember anti in the Greek means 'instead of', so he is 'instead of' CHRIST or anti CHRIST.
The devil blaspheme's the NAME OF GOD by claiming to be GOD!
Do you know what the 'Falling Away' is? It's when most of the world believes that satan is JESUS and instantly falls away from the TRUE JESUS! Do you know how the Gospel is preached throughout the world? It's by those trials where they deliver you up for a testamony against the devil! All who hear is will hear it in their own language and it will convince even the gainsayers!
7. THE TRUE JESUS RETURNS! IT'S NOW THE START OF THE LORD'S DAY (THE MELLENIUM)!
In Peter is says that a day with the LORD is 1000 years to man. The LORD'S DAY is 1000 years long and we will all be in spirit bodies at that time. The LORD'S DAY is also called the Mellenium. It's the time when JESUS rules with an Iron Rod. This means descipline! There are no second chances! The LORD'S DAY is for those that did not get the TRUTH in this age! At the end of the LORD'S DAY, the devil is loosed for a short season to test those that go through the Mellenium! Then comes THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT, and after that, ETERNITY!
In 2nd Thessalonians, Paul says we do not gather back to CHRIST until the devil stands in the Holy Place.
So, if the devil is already here, and CHRIST hasn't returned, and JESUS says that you will be delivered up to synagogs for a testamony against them, there is no rapture!
Also, if you can pinch yourself and it hurts, you are not in your spirit body.
When JESUS returns, we all change in the blink of an eye into our spirit bodies (we will meet HIM in our spirit bodies).
So, if you are not in a spirit body and someone is claiming to be JESUS, then it is anti CHRIST.
I don't mean your average person claiming to be JESUS. I mean if there is a being that is very powerful and supernatural performing miracles, and you are not in a spirit body, that being is the devil.
Now, I said I would show that satan comes to this earth before JESUS Returns. Take a look at Mark 13:14. It states that the abomination of desolation stands in the Holy Place. That is satan, and JESUS has not yet returned. The TRUMP OF GOD has not happened and everyone is still here on earth and in flesh. So this means that we all have to go through The Great Tribulation.
If you take a look at Mark 13:26, you will see that THE TRUMP OF GOD has sounded because JESUS is Returning. The order of events are that satan comes first, then at some time later JESUS Returns. I will post both verses right here before the chapter so that you can read them and see the order of events. Read the chapter though, there is a lot of information as to what happens at the end time.
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
With the information in this document, it should be clear to the reader that there is no rapture. The rapture is an end time deception that could result in a Christian being deceived into worshipping satan.
One last comment:
When the Thessalonians became confused as to when we would gather back to CHRIST after Paul sent them the first letter (which was 1st Thessalonians), Paul wrote them a second letter to straighten it all out. The second letter is 2nd Thessalonians and the key verses that correct the misunderstanding of when we gather back to CHRIST are as follows:
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:1 shows that the subject is the return of CHRIST and our gathering back to HIM. Beseech basically means Paul is giving them a warning.
2Th 2:2 shows that Paul is saying not to get mixed up (shaken in mind) or be troubled by spirit (like a bunch of hype where people are into and believing a false doctrine such as the rapture doctrine) or anyone's opinion (word), and the key part for us is that Paul is saying don't be shaken in mind (mixed up) by that last letter we wrote to you (nor by letter as from us). That last letter that Paul is talking about is 1st Thessalonians. The main thing that Paul wants them to realize is that the day of CHRIST is NOT at hand. It's not going to happen until things are set into place!
2Th 2:3 Paul is saying don't fall for anyones lies or tricks or ignorance. He is saying that CHRIST does not return (by rapture or otherwise) until there is a falling away from CHRIST (how can there be a falling away from CHRIST? It's simple! When satan comes pretending to be CHRIST, most people fall for it and start worshiping satan. They think satan is CHRIST and fall away from The True CHRIST). The man of sin that gets revealed is the devil, the son of perdition. There is only one named son of GOD that is already sentenced to death and that is satan. Perdition means to die. Ezekiel 28 is where satan is sentenced to death.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
So you see, satan will be turned to ashes from the inside out.
2Th 2:4 Shows what satan will be doing. That discusting arch angel will be standing in The Holy Place claiming to be GOD. The key thing is to notice that all of this happens before the true CHRIST returns. There is no rapture!
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Hello Unknownservant and welcome.
Do you believe there will be a rapture after the 7 year tribulation?
By the way the Strong's number used for cloud in Hebrew 12:1(G3509) is not the same word used in 1Th 4:17 (G3507)
Strong's Number: 3507
Original Word Word Origin
nefevlh from (3509)
Transliterated Word
Nephele
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
nef-el'-ay Noun Feminine
Definition
a cloud
used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The only question here is the timing. (IMHO)
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Rom. 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
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Hi Fat,
Thanks for the welcome! :)
The main point is that the word 'cloud' is used to indicate cloud. Whether it is Hebrew or Greek, it's still a cloud. The point being in Hebrews 12:1 is that Paul is speaking Greek slang or street Greek. He is saying 'a cloud of witnesses' just like you might say a swarm of bees or cloud of bees. So, using that same slang, Paul would be saying 'meet in the crowd'. This isn't what disproves the rapture however, I'm just being thorough. It's the overall context and timing that proves there is no rapture. Especially that we don't gather back with CHRIST until The Trump Of GOD. As far as a rapture after the 7 year tribulation, first I want to say that the 7 year tribulation is cut short to five months. I can prove this to you in a later post. To answer your question though, we aren't actually raptured after the tribulation, but switched into our spirit bodies at the 7th Trump. At that time, the Millennium begins and the Millennium is here on earth.
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I receive the following email from mike in the AU
I think that's Australia .
I agree with a lot of what you have said but you are in error in your reasoning here.
Since the subject is the night and the night relates to satan, this is right before or the night
before The LORD'S DAY. Since JESUS has not Returned yet, the one taken, is taken by anti- CHRIST
because they think he is JESUS Returned!
Indeed when you look at who is taken and left
Some are in daylight some are in night
People did not realise this at the time but as the earth has daylight in some parts it is night in other parts
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,
and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
v35 and v36 are in daytime
v34 is night
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I don't believe Paul Hebrews.
What's your main problem is with the phrase I will return as a thief in the night. The idea of Christ return together with his people without warning is repeated throughout the Scriptures. Can you explain to me help any Christian and go to a seven year tribulation not know that it is this happening? If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.
But Unknownservant, that would mean you would not have to keep the oil in your lamp for the return of the groom, how convenient.
matthew 25
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn't take oil with them. 4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps. 5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 "In the middle of the night there was a shout: 'Here's the groom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.' 9 "The sensible ones answered, 'No, there won't be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.' 10 "When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
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Hi Mike,
On this verse, JESUS is saying that it is night. HE is indicating symbolically that it is the hour of temptation, which is considered the darkest hour for mankind. It's the night before The LORD'S DAY! At the end of this night, the Day starts (meaning The LORD'S DAY). This 'night' is actually five months long, but I'll show that in a future post (GOD Willing!).
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
This verse says that two will be working, one is taken (stops working) and the other will be left (continues working).
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The field is the world. What do people do in the field? They work. The one taken, again, stops working. The other continues to work. The one taken is taken by anti CHRIST. Why does the one taken stop working? Because the one taken believes that the work is over. The one taken believes JESUS has returned. The one that continues working in the field (the field is the world) knows that the anti CHRIST is a fake and is not the TRUE JESUS, so he or she is continuing to do their work and waiting on The TRUE CHRIST to return.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
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Hi Fat,
I copied your reply so that it would be easier for me to keep track of our conversation. I will put a '>" next to my response.
I don't believe Paul Hebrews.
>Whether or not Paul wrote Hebrews or not doesn't really prove or disprove the rapture. I believe that he did write Hebrews, however, I'm aware that some do not believe this to be the case. It still does not make any difference on the result of the scriptures. It's the context and timing of what is written that actually proves there is no rapture.
What's your main problem is with the phrase I will return as a thief in the night. The idea of Christ return together with his people without warning is repeated throughout the Scriptures. Can you explain to me help any Christian and go to a seven year tribulation not know that it is this happening?
>You have to read the book of Daniel. The devil does not come in as a snarling evil beast trying to kill everyone. The devil comes in peacefully and prosperously and destroys wonderfully with peace. Those that dwell on the earth will 'wonder' after him except those written in the book of Life from the 'foundation' of the world. The word 'wonder' means 'admire', which is the same as worship. Those that dwell on the earth think he is JESUS. The people won't think they are in a tribulation, they will think their savior has returned.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The only ones that the devil is after are GOD'S elect. They are the one's whose names were written in The Book Of Life from the foundation of the world.
If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.
Those that don't know TRUTH will also not likely know who the two witnesses are. People will believe there is a rapture because one verse preachers told them that, not because they studied. It's likely they will not know the two witnesses are who they are. It would be nice if at least some do however. It might mean they don't have to go through the Millennium. Also, it's not three and a half years after the two witnesses are killed that JESUS returns, it's three and a half days.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
But Unknownservant, that would mean you would not have to keep the oil in your lamp for the return of the groom, how convenient.
>The Oil that we keep in our Lamps is The Oil Of Our People, which is Olive Oil, which is symbolic of TRUTH, Which is THE HOLY SPIRIT!
matthew 25
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn't take oil with them. 4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps. 5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 "In the middle of the night there was a shout: 'Here's the groom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.' 9 "The sensible ones answered, 'No, there won't be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.' 10 "When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
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You're making my point Unknownservant.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The only ones that the devil is after are GOD'S elect. They are the one's whose names were written in The Book Of Life from the foundation of the world.
If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.
Those that don't know TRUTH will also not likely know who the two witnesses are. People will believe there is a rapture because one verse preachers told them that, not because they studied. It's likely they will not know the two witnesses are who they are. It would be nice if at least some do however. It might mean they don't have to go through the Millennium. Also, it's not three and a half years after the two witnesses are killed that JESUS returns, it's three and a half days.
It is 3 1/2 years but even if it was Days it is still notice of His return, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about the (a) rapture or the Day of the Lord the clock starts at the with the 'rapture' of the two witnesses.
Test your theory with the Scripture, it does not hold up.
As far as a rapture after the 7 year tribulation, first I want to say that the 7 year tribulation is cut short to five months. I can prove this to you in a later post.
I'm interested in this statement, go on please.
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Fat,
There is no judgement in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, it is not the Day of the Lord. The rapture and the day of judgement are not the same as Rev 6 and Rev 19.
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From: Barnes’ Notes On The New Testament
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive—Those who shall then be alive; see 1 Thes 4:15. The word here rendered “then” ( ἔπειτα epeita ), does not necessarily mean that this would occur immediately. It properly marks succession in time, and means “afterward, next, next in the order of events;” Luke 16:7 ; Gal. 1:21 ; James 4:14 . There may be a considerable interval between the resurrection of the pious and the time when the living shall be caught up to meet the Lord, for the change is to take place in them which will fit them to ascend with those who have been raised. The meaning is, that after the dead are raised, or the next thing in order, they and the living will ascend to meet the Lord. The proper meaning of the word, however, denotes a succession so close as to exclude the idea of a long interval in which other important transactions would occur, such an interval, for example, as would be involved in a long personal reign of the Redeemer on earth. The word demands this interpretation—that the next thing in order after the resurrection of the righteous, will be their being caught up with the living, with an appropriate change, into the air—though, as has been remarked, it will admit of the supposition of such a brief, momentary interval ἐν ἄτομος ἐν ῥιπη ὀφθαλμου en atomos en rhipē ophthalmou , 1 Cor. 15:51-52 ) as shall be necessary to prepare for it.
Shall be caught up—The word here used implies that there will be the application of external force or power by which this will be done. It will not be by any power of ascending which they will themselves have; or by any tendency of their raised or changed bodies to ascend of their own accord, or even by any effort of their own will, but by a power applied to them which will cause them to rise. Compare the use of the word ἁρπάζω harpazō in Matt. 11:12 , “the violent take it by force;” Matt 13:19, “then cometh the wicked one and snatcheth away;” John 6:15 , “that they would come and take him by force; John 10:12, “the wolf catcheth them;” Acts 8:39 , “the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; 2 Cor. 12:2 , “such an one caught up to the third heaven;” also, John 12:28-29 ; Acts 23:10 ; Jude 23 ; Rev. 12:5 . The verb does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament In all these instances there is the idea of either foreign force or violence effecting that which is done. What force or power is to be applied in causing the living and the dead to ascend, is not expressed. Whether it is to be by the ministry of angels, or by the direct power of the Son of God, is not intimated, though the latter seems to be most probable. The word should not be construed, however. as implying that there will be any reluctance on the part of the saints to appear before the Saviour, but merely with reference to the physical fact that power will be necessary to elevate them to meet him in the air. Will their, bodies then be such that they will have the power of locomotion at will from place to place?
In the clouds—Greek, “in clouds”— ἐν νεφέλαις en nephelais —without the article. This may mean “in clouds;” that is, in such numbers, and in such grouping as to resemble clouds. So it is rendered by Macknight, Koppe, Rosenmüller, Bush (Anasta. 266), and others. The absence of the article here would rather seem to demand this interpretation Still, however, the other interpretation may be true, that it means that they will be caught up into the region of the clouds, or to the clouds which shall accompany the Lord Jesus on his return to our world. Matt. 24:30; 26:64 ; Mark 16:19; 14:62 ; Rev. 1:7 compare Dan. 7:13 . In whichever sense it is understood, the expression is one of great sublimity, and the scene will be immensely grand. Some doctrine of this kind was held by the ancient Jews. Thus rabbi Nathan (Midras Tillin, 48:13) says, “What has been done before will be done again. As he led the Israelites from Egypt in the clouds of heaven, so will he do to them in the future time.”
To meet the Lord in the air—In the regions of the atmosphere—above the earth. It would seem from this, that the Lord Jesus, in his coming, would not descend to the earth, but would remain at a distance from it in the air, where the great transactions of the judgment will occur. It is, indeed, nowhere said that the transactions of the judgment will occur upon the earth. The world would not be spacious enough to contain all the assembled living and dead, and hence the throne of judgment will be fixed in the ample space above it.
And so shall we ever be with the Lord—This does not mean that they will always remain with him in the air—for their final home will be heaven—and after the trial they will accompany him to the realms of glory; Matt. 25:34 , “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom,” etc. The time during which they will remain with him “in the air” is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It will be as long as will be necessary for the purposes of judging a world and deciding the eternal doom of every individual “according to the deeds done in the body.” There is no reason to suppose that this will be accomplished in a single day of twenty-four hours; but it is impossible to form and conjecture of the period which will be occupied.
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Hi Fat,
The hour of temptation will be cut to five months. It's the same length of time as Noah's flood.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
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We get a lot of people that draw smoke out of the scriptures used to form cult religions but this is really a stretch.
You would make a good Mormon, but you don't claim that on your profile, is that an oversight?
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Hi Fat,
If you read each thing I write, you will see that it is completely GOD'S WORD. No stretching needed. Cults take things that are written and then twist them just like the devil did in Matthew 4. But be careful, if you let those cults keep you from the Truth, then your lack of Truth is basically as bad as a cult.
No, I'm not mormon, I'm elect.
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Hi Fat,
If you read each thing I write, you will see that it is completely GOD'S WORD. No stretching needed. Cults take things that are written and then twist them just like the devil did in Matthew 4. But be careful, if you let those cults keep you from the Truth, then your lack of Truth is basically as bad as a cult.
Exactly my friend.
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Hi Fat,
You are being sarcastic, just like Macuser.
Why do you do that? Can you please write the scriptures I asked you about and show me where THE BIBLE says I'm wrong?
And please, don't be so negative! :)
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End Time Test
Okay! Here is the situation. It's the end time, the devil is here claiming to be GOD and no one has been raptured out. The devil already has those that will join his system, so he has no reason to go after them. But he is after those that won't join his system. They are GOD'S elect and it is their job to give a testimony against the devil and that testimony will be given to the elect by THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's obvious that THE HOLY SPIRIT isn't going to speak through someone that will join the devil's system. That testimony will help bring down the one world system. So, take a look at these verses and answer the questions after the verses.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
1. Why would our family or friends betray us and turn us in to the devil?
2. If some of us are put to death, how can that match with not a hair on our heads perish?
3. How can being patient cause us to keep our souls?
I'll post the answers in a later post. Based on interest, of course! :)
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Who are you going to believe, your preacher or an apostle of The LORD JESUS CHRIST?
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
There is no rapture.
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Are you saying this is before the time of the Gentiles has ended or after?
Luke 21:24
Romans 11:25-29
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A cut N' paste from the work of Alan Yusko. http://www.dealtorontohomes.com/hs/remove.html
IS THE HOLY SPIRIT REMOVED FROM EARTH AFTER THE RAPTURE?
by Alan Yusko
I get the odd person who has the mistaken idea that somehow after the rapture the Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth. Some people who delight in attacking the pre-trib rapture love to show how foolish it is to believe the Holy Spirit will no longer be on earth after the rapture. This tract will examine this idea and show that the Holy Spirit can never be removed from anywhere. He is God, the Third Person of the Trinity and He is omnipresent at all times throughout the entire creation.
Personally I don't know why I even have to write this tract. I can't understand why anyone would believe that the Holy Spirit could be removed from the earth. Do they really believe that after the rapture, the Holy Spirit will be all over the creation except on planet earth? Do they think the Holy Spirit will limit Himself to only heaven? It is quite an illogical belief if you really think about it. Never-the-less I still run into the odd person who talks in such a way. They argue that after the rapture, the Holy Spirit will be removed from planet earth. Again it really does not make sense to me, but in this tract we will look at what the Bible says and learn a bit about omnipresence.
So, does the Holy Spirit leave planet earth at the rapture of the Church? Does the Bible teach this? Well here is the piece of Scripture that confuses some people:
Thes 2
6: And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Notice that the antichrist (that Wicked) is currently being restrained by someone. Until He is removed (taken out of the way), the antichrist cannot come to power (be revealed). The big question is who is that restrainer and how is He removed. I might also add that the restrainer is a person. He is referred to as 'He'. Well, it is not too hard to see that the only person who could restrain the evil one is the Holy Spirit. But lets go a bit deeper. How is the Holy Spirit restraining the antichrist. Well, remember when the Church was born? Several days after the Lord Jesus ascended to heaven the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and indwelt believers. At this point the Church was born. The Church is the body of Spirit reborn believers that are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit.
Does this mean that before the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was not on planet earth? Of course not. One of the characteristics of the Holy Spirit is that He is omnipresent. Now what does that term mean? Omnipresent means, everywhere present. God the Holy Spirit (Third Person of the Trinity) is everywhere in God's Creation. There is no where a person may go where the Holy Spirit cannot be found. He is everywhere. He is omnipresent! Does the Bible support what I just said? Yes, of course it does. Here is the Scripture:
Psalm 139
7: Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8: If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9: If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10: Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Notice above that there is no where a person could go where the Holy Spirit cannot be found. If a person goes to hell, the Holy Spirit is there. If a person goes to heaven, the Holy Spirit is also there. He is everywhere! I repeat, He is omnipresent!
So we have just established the fact that that Holy Spirit is omnipresent. He is everywhere in the creation. This means before and after Pentecost the Holy Spirit will be on planet earth. Also, before and after the rapture, the Holy Spirit will be on planet earth.
Now on to the next part of the puzzle. What happened on Pentecost that was so different? The Holy Spirit was already on earth so why did the Lord Jesus say the Holy Spirit would come? Well, the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers until Pentecost. Yes the Holy Spirit was on earth as He is omnipresent. However until Pentecost, the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers. In Old Testament days, the Holy Spirit would come upon certain people at certain times. However there was no guarantee He would stay. That is different with the Church, the body of true believers. Once a person is saved, he is given the Holy Spirit who will never leave! It is one of the great blessings God's people have in this Church age. Here are some verses that explain about the 'sealing' of the Holy Spirit for each believer:
2 Cor 1
21: Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22: Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The above is very clear. Each believer in the Lord Jesus is sealed by the Holy Spirit who indwells in their heart. It is a permanent sealing from earth to heaven!
Now what does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit accomplish?
Since God's people are Spirit filled then they can easily influence the world in a positive way. The Holy Spirit works through each believer on planet earth and the net effect is the restraining of evil and the evil one. Now each believer has a ministry. They serve God as Kings and priests while they are here on earth.
Rev 1
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Each believer has been made 'kings and priests' unto God. This means Christians can pray and God hears and answers. Overall the effect of God's Spirit filled people is a restraining one. As Christians live and interact in this godless world they serve God and they pray. When a Christian sees evil, he is moved to pray as God leads. The end result is a restraining influence in the world. It is not the Christian who does the restraining but it is the work of the Holy Spirit as He works in and through Christians.
At the rapture the restraining work of the Holy Spirit through the Church will end. At that time the Church will be taken up to heaven. The Holy Spirit will still be in the world as He is omnipresent. However the Spirit filled body of believers (the Church) will be gone. The restrainer, the Holy Spirit filled Church, will be removed and there will be nothing restraining evil. At that point the antichrist will be free to rise to power and do his evil works. While the Church is in the world, the antichrist is 'restrained' by the power of the Holy Spirit in each believer. The rapture will remove that restrainer of evil.
I hope I've made things as clear as can be. The Holy Spirit is the one who does the restraining. He is restraining evil as He indwells all saved Christians throughout the world. At the rapture the Church is taken to heaven. The Holy Spirit will still be present after the rapture. However, the Church will be in heaven and the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain evil and the antichrist will then be able to rise to power.
CONCLUSION:
Lets sum it all up. First the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. This means He is present everywhere in the creation of God. God's Spirit will never cease to be omnipresent. To do that He would cease to be God, which is impossible. For someone to say the Holy Spirit will be removed from earth at the rapture shows a great lack of understanding on the nature of God. God will not be removed from any of His creation....ever.
We also pointed out the fact that before Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was in the world and He will be in the world after the rapture. The only difference is the Church. The Church is a body of believers that came into existence at Pentecost. At that time, the Holy Spirit infilled all believers and sealed them until the day of redemption. Believers are now kings and priests unto God. As the Church works, serves God, and prays, the Holy Spirit works in and through them to restrain evil and the evil one. At the rapture the Church will be removed. At this time the Holy Spirit will no longer be restraining evil as the body of Spirit filled believers will be in heaven. Yes the Holy Spirit will still be present on earth, but the Church will not. This explains the removal of the restrainer which will allow the antichrist to rise to power.
So let me say this as a pre-tribulation rapture person. At the rapture the Church is taken to heaven. The Holy Spirit is now restraining evil and the evil one through the Church. Who is the Church? It is the saved people who have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour. These Christians are blood bought and filled with the Holy Spirit. As they serve God and pray, God the Holy Spirit works in and through them to restrain evil. At the rapture this restrain is removed. The Church will no longer be present on earth and the work of the Holy Spirit in restraining evil through the Church will be finished. At this time the Holy Spirit is still on earth as He is omnipresent. However, He no longer restrains evil since the Church has been raptured up to heaven. NOW the devil can work out his plan and bring to power his antichrist.
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BB
That's a well put together article, good fined💒
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Who are you going to believe, your preacher or an apostle of The LORD JESUS CHRIST?
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
There is no rapture.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (Strong's Number: 646)(1 Tim 4:1) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. (NAS)
1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (The key to identifying the event is to identify the main person , which Paul does, calling him the “man of lawlessness.”)
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. ME THINK WE'RE THERE NOW!
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Hi BibleBuf,
It's at the time when the devil stands in the Holy Place claiming to be GOD. The elect are being delivered up for a testimony against the devil.
It's during the hour of temptation, Jacob's Trouble. I would say that it is during the time of the Gentiles.
Read Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
These are the things that worry me. Few people really know what is going to happen. They are not prepared for it, nor geared for it. When satan gets here, they are going to be sifted like wheat. I actually think that no one on this site knows the answers to those questions. I'm not making fun or degrading anyone, I really want you guys to be ready.
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Hi Fat,
How are you?
First, you know who the man of sin is, correct? It's the devil. Where is the devil during the time he is revealed. The devil is sitting in the temple of GOD showing himself that he is GOD. Now, the Bible says that before JESUS returns, the devil will be here claiming to be GOD, so if you look at the falling away that has to happen before JESUS returns, what could that be? It's when GOD'S children are tricked by satan into believing that satan is GOD. So, what do GOD'S children do? Well they fall away to satan. They are no longer worshiping the True GOD, they are worshiping satan.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Now, five months after this happens, JESUS returns.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Here is the length of time the days are shortened to:
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
When JESUS returns, those that fall for satan's deception will wish for the Rocks to fall on them. Then they will go to JESUS and say, we have cast out evil spirits in YOUR Name. But what does JESUS reply? HE replies 'Depart from me, I never knew you'!
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
How much more iniquity can you do than worshiping satan?
You see, those people didn't care enough about Truth. They just wanted to believe a lie. And what does GOD say about those that don't care about Truth?
Here is the rest of what Paul says, after he warns about the devil coming first:
This basically says that Michael the archangel will cast satan back to earth (Revelation 12).
The devil will do miracles in the sight of man. This will cause many to believe the devil is JESUS because they didn't care enough to seek Truth, so they are not ready. They fall away to the deception.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Why are they unrighteous? Because they worship satan. How much more can you be unrighteous than worshiping satan?
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And here is what GOD thinks about it! HE will send them STRONG delusion to believe satan. THAT SHOWS HE IS ANGRY!
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
AND, who is it that won't worship satan? Well it's those that get delivered up for a testimony. Those that were written in The Book Of Life from the FOUNDATION of the world. They are predestined, they are chosen. Are there any of you on this website? I'm searching for you. If you understand these things, can you contact me?
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
The Gospel gets published among all nations by these testimonies!
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
It's actually GOD giving the testimonies through us! That is our destiny! We are predestinated to do that!
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
This is referring to the elect, who KNOW TRUTH!
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
When were we chosen? The FOUNDATION of the world was before any of us were here in flesh.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
So, if many are called (have free will), but few are chosen (elect), then that means we are predestinated!
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Now, I'll tell you what garment you have to wear if you contact me. I may make a post on it later. But you don't want to be cast to outer darkness, so seek TRUTH!
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Now, who will worship satan?
The word 'wonder' below means admire. That is the same as worship.
Read closely! Those that were NOT written into The Book Of Life from the FOUNDATION of the world WILL worship satan.
Those that were written into The Book Of Life from the FOUNDATION of the world are the elect, the delivered up ones, the chosen, the predestinated.
Are you one of them? How do you know? If you see this TRUTH, you are! It's time to get ready. The devil is almost here. Contact me if you see this, but only if you see this (eyes to see and ears to hear).
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
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I would say that it is during the time of the Gentiles.
Well then lets look at Luke 21. NAS
The Widow's Gift
1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. 3 And He said, "Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; 4 for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on." 5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, 6 "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down." 7 They questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?" 8 And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them. 9 "When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately."
Things to Come
10 Then He continued by saying to them, "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. 12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake. 13 "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. 14 "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; 15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. 16 "But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, 17 and you will be hated by all because of My name. 18 "Yet not a hair of your head will perish. 19 "By your endurance you will gain your lives. 20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Note that the Gentiles have been removed at this point.)
The Return of Christ
25 "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory. 28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." 29 Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 34 "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. 36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." 37 Now during the day He was teaching in the temple, but at evening He would go out and spend the night on the mount that is called Olivet. 38 And all the people would get up early in the morning to come to Him in the temple to listen to Him.
Might as well look at Rom 11. NAS
Israel Is Not Cast Away
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4 But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9 And David says, "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10 "LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER ." 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited , but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery -so that you will not be wise in your own estimation -that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness ( Strong's Number: 4138) of the Gentiles has come (Strong's Number: 1525) in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB." 27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Now what does it mean, "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in?"
It is obvious that Jerusalem Will not be saved until removal of the Gentiles who have come to their fulfillment, only elect having been saved. At this point the focus becomes on the Jews and their salvation. Once the gentiles are removed the softening of the heart of Israel will take place. Paul is telling us that our purpose here just to make Israel jealous and caused them to turn back to God. This will occur after every Gentile of the elect has come to Christ. "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in'
BB
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Hi BibleBuf,
Nice list of verses. I hope you understand all of it. Now, can you answer the questions on the end time test please?
Thank you,
unknownservant
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Hello BB
I agree the the restrainer is the Holy Spirit and for the anti-christ to come into power the Spirit must release him. The Spirit will not allow Satan to have rule over the Church, "I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". And I agree with Yusko's conclusion that the Church will be removed.
Hello unknownservant
Just something for you to consider, there will still be some elect remaining after the rapture minister to Israel. Revelation 7 & 14
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Hi BibleBuf,
Nice list of verses. I hope you understand all of it. Now, can you answer the questions on the end time test please?
Thank you,
unknownservant
I did, read the scriptures. Look beyond your 4 verses.
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Hi Fat,
You are out of context again!
Revelation 7 and 14 is about the Seal Of GOD being put into the minds of the elect. It's at the fifth trump, which is where were are at now.
Read my last post and try to understand it. If you can't understand it, ask FATHER to let you see it. You will be happy if you see it.
unknownservant
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Hi biblebuf,
You did not answer, you listed verses. Listing verses and understanding them are two different things.
Can you just answer the three questions straight out? I'll be surprised if you can. If you know GOD'S WORD, you can answer those questions. If you don't know GOD'S WORD then you will not be able to answer those questions.
Here they are, for your convenience:
End Time Test
Okay! Here is the situation. It's the end time, the devil is here claiming to be GOD and no one has been raptured out. The devil already has those that will join his system, so he has no reason to go after them. But he is after those that won't join his system. They are GOD'S elect and it is their job to give a testimony against the devil and that testimony will be given to the elect by THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's obvious that THE HOLY SPIRIT isn't going to speak through someone that will join the devil's system. That testimony will help bring down the one world system. So, take a look at these verses and answer the questions after the verses.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
1. Why would our family or friends betray us and turn us in to the devil?
2. If some of us are put to death, how can that match with not a hair on our heads perish?
3. How can being patient cause us to keep our souls?
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Hi Fat,
You are out of context again!
Revelation 7 and 14 is about the Seal Of GOD being put into the minds of the elect. It's at the fifth trump, which is where were are at now.
Read my last post and try to understand it. If you can't understand it, ask FATHER to let you see it. You will be happy if you see it.
unknownservant
Hello again Unknownservant.
I have read your post and it worries that you have lost touch with God's word but maybe if you take the time to try and understand the meaning of what is being said to you, you will fined the truth.
Why are you so hateful!
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Hi biblebuf,
You did not answer, you listed verses. Listing verses and understanding them are two different things.
Can you just answer the three questions straight out? I'll be surprised if you can. If you know GOD'S WORD, you can answer those questions. If you don't know GOD'S WORD then you will not be able to answer those questions.
Here they are, for your convenience:
End Time Test
Okay! Here is the situation. It's the end time, the devil is here claiming to be GOD and no one has been raptured out. The devil already has those that will join his system, so he has no reason to go after them. But he is after those that won't join his system. They are GOD'S elect and it is their job to give a testimony against the devil and that testimony will be given to the elect by THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's obvious that THE HOLY SPIRIT isn't going to speak through someone that will join the devil's system. That testimony will help bring down the one world system. So, take a look at these verses and answer the questions after the verses.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
1. Why would our family or friends betray us and turn us in to the devil?
2. If some of us are put to death, how can that match with not a hair on our heads perish?
3. How can being patient cause us to keep our souls?
Yes I did, search for it.
Good night.
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Hi Fat,
I'm not hateful. I love everyone on this site. I think that there must be an elect on this site and they are going to see this discussion and realize quickly who they are. I wish it was everyone on this site though. If it's not you, you will have your chance in the Millennium, but that is a very tough road to go on. It will make everything that you've gone through in this life look trivial and the outcome is much more scary. But everyone does get their chance. The chance they get is for the same reason that GOD hated Esau. I don't think you will get that, but the elect that reads this will. :)
unknownservant
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Hi biblebuf,
No, you didn't. You listed verses to push up your position. If you knew GOD'S WORD, you would do what any knowledgeable person in GOD'S WORD would do. You would answer the questions if someone asked. But you don't do that, do you. You simply say 'search for it' and then say 'good night'.
unknownservant
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End Time Test (Answers)
Okay! Here is the situation. It's the end time, the devil is here claiming to be GOD and no one has been raptured out. The devil already has those that will join his system, so he has no reason to go after them. But he is after those that won't join his system. They are GOD'S elect and it is their job to give a testimony against the devil and that testimony will be given to the elect by THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's obvious that THE HOLY SPIRIT isn't going to speak through someone that will join the devil's system. That testimony will help bring down the one world system. So, take a look at these verses and answer the questions after the verses.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
1. Why would our family or friends betray us and turn us in to the devil?
The answer is that the reason they will betray us is because they love us. They will think that the devil is JESUS and their only intention is to get us saved. The problem is that they don't know what we know, and that is that the devil comes first pretending to be CHRIST. The devil sits in the temple of GOD claiming to be GOD.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2. If some of us are put to death, how can that match with not a hair on our heads perish?
The answer to this question is that it is not our flesh body that the devil wants to kill. It's our souls. So, it's not the hair on your head you have to worry about, but your soul. If you give in to the devil, it your soul that will perish, not your flesh body. The devil will offer your flesh anything that it wants to get you to join him, but if you do join him, it's all over for you. It's your soul that will perish. Also, one of the devils names is death. That is the death you are put to, meaning the devil himself.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
3. How can being patient cause us to keep our souls?
The answer to this question is that the fake CHRIST comes first and he will tempt you and do whatever it takes to win you over. If you give in to him, you lose your soul. So be patient and wait for the TRUE CHRIST and you will win the Crown Of Life, which is eternal life.
Jas_1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Rev_2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
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The answers to your questions on Luke 21, can be found in Luke 21.
I think BB pointed that out.
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Well, you got some of it right, even if for the wrong reason. May be these words from Christ will help you see what is being said in Luke 21.
Matthew 10:16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20 "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. 23 "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
He continues.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 "For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36 and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. 37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
Look at Mark.
Mark 13:7 "When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end. 8 "For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. 9 "But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. 10 "The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 "When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. 12 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 13 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand ), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 15 "The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house; 16 and the one who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat. 17 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
What is really troubling to me is that you posted Luke 21:17 which is the answer to your first question and you can't see it.
In Christ
BB
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What is really troubling to me is that you posted Luke 21:17 which is the answer to your first question and you can't see it.
Add to that Christ words in other chapters:
Luke 11:23 NAS
"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
Matthew 12:30 NAS
[The Unpardonable Sin] "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
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Hi biblebuf and Fat,
Being hated of all men for JESUS sake is not the answer to my first question. The answer to the first question is that your family and friends may think that satan is JESUS because satan comes as anti CHRIST. 'Anti' in the Greek means 'instead of', not 'against'. So, satan comes claiming to be GOD, meaning he will come claiming to be JESUS. Many that did not care about or see TRUTH will think satan is JESUS and therefore have you delivered up to satan thinking they are having you delivered to JESUS to be saved. They do it because they love you.
As far as the unpardonable sin goes, you are not seeing it. The unforgivable sin can only happen at one time on this earth and only by one group of people. The group is the elect and 'they only' can commit that sin, no one else can commit it. The sin is to know the TRUTH and to refuse THE HOLY SPIRIT to Speak. If an elect does that, it's all over from that elect. But in my opinion, the elect know who satan is and would be disgusted at satan and would never commit that sin.
Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Good thing it's NOT possible!
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I think this topic has been full circle :) I am getting dizzy.