Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Sound doctrine => Topic started by: Frank T on February 17, 2015, 11:37:33 pm
-
By Dr. H. L. Willmington
Perhaps no other single word has been so successfully twisted by the devil today as has the biblical word “doctrine.” In the minds of millions, doctrine involves the following concepts:
1. Doctrine is that silly and useless practice of arguing (in the spirit and tradition of medieval monks) such things as: “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” “Could God create a stone so heavy that he couldn’t lift it?” “Could he plant an immovable post in the ground and then throw an unstoppable rock at it?”
2. Doctrine divides, whereas love unites.
3. One cannot mix doctrine with soul-winning.
4. Doctrine is dull and impractical.
5. Doctrine is over the heads of most people.
6. Why learn a lot of doctrine when we don’t live up to the light we already have?
7. The key goal is to let the Bible master us, and not spend our energies in mastering the Bible.
In answering these charges, one could say that they are as far removed from the truth as the Babe in Bethlehem is from Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer! Each argument needs but a brief refutation.
1. True biblical doctrine has nothing whatsoever to do with dancing angels, massive rocks, sturdy posts, and speeding stones! The word doctrine, as found in the Bible, refers to the systematic (and often simple) gathering and presentation of the facts concerning any great body of truth.
2. True doctrine does indeed divide. It divides light from darkness, right from wrong, and life from death. But it also unites, for God’s love cannot be known or appropriated by sinful men without the involvement of doctrine.
3. These two not only can be mixed, they must be mixed if God’s commands are to be followed. It is thrilling to note that the greatest soul-winner of all time and the greatest theologian who ever lived were one and the same—the Apostle Paul! The same man who went door to door, pleading with tears for men to accept Christ (Acts 20:20, 21, 26 ), also wrote some 50 percent of the New Testament, including that most profound of all doctrinal books, the epistle to the Romans.
4. To the contrary, doctrine will put both a fire and a song in the hearts of those who read and heed its tremendous truths.
“And they said one to another, Did not our heart bum within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?” (Lk. 24:32 ).
“Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord” (Eph. 5:19 ).
“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand” (Rev. 1:3 ).
“Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book” (Rev. 22:7 ).
5. This is simply not true, as refuted by Christ himself.
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Mt. 11:25, 28-30 ).
6. To follow this twisted logic would mean never to go beyond the first commandment (Ex. 20:3 ), which says we are to have no gods or interests placed before the true God. But who has not on occasion been guilty of this? Should we therefore conclude that the sixth and seventh commandments (“Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery,” Ex. 20:13, 14 ) should not be kept simply because we do not always obey the first commandment?
7. This statement is pious nonsense, for one cannot possibly be even remotely influenced, let alone mastered, by that which he or she knows nothing about. It is true that the goal of Bible study is to become Spirit controlled. But the fruit of the Spirit can never come apart from the root of personal study.
Having listed and answered those objections to studying doctrine, let us now give some important advantages for doing it.
1. Doctrine will help save us from theological food poisoning.
“Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them; for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee” (1 Tim. 4:13-16 ).
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Tim. 4:1 ).
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables” (2 Tim. 4:1-4 ).
2. Doctrine will help settle us.
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Eph. 4:14 ).
3. Doctrine will acquaint us with the details of God’s eternal plan.
a. Concerning the history of Israel.
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea” (1 Cor. 10:1 ).
b. Concerning the restoration of Israel.
“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” (Rom. 11:25 ).
c. Concerning spiritual gifts.
“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant” (1 Cor. 12:1 ).
d. Concerning the rapture.
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope” (1 Thess. 4:13 ).
e. Concerning the destruction of this earth.
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up” (2 Pet. 3:8, 10 ).
4. Doctrine helps us edify God.
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15 ).
5. Doctrine helps us equip ourselves.
“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim. 3:13-17 ).
“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God” (Eph. 6:10-17 ).
-
Hi Frank
That's a well put together article . Doctrine is necessary or we are saying that interpretation of scripture need not be accurate .
-
Hello Frank
As we've seen here there are as many doctrines as there are verses in the bible. There is only one true doctrine when it comes to Salvation that counts. We have a lot of other doctrines that we study and debate but they are not critical as the doctrine of Salvation.
IMHO
-
Hello Frank
As we've seen here there are as many doctrines as there are verses in the bible. There is only one true doctrine when it comes to Salvation that counts. We have a lot of other doctrines that we study and debate but they are not critical as the doctrine of Salvation.
IMHO
Someone on this forum (might be you Fat) said that he has never been to a church that he can agree 100% in the teaching. I have to say that it is getting harder every day to find a church that sticks to the Word, even that which is obvious.
-
Someone on this forum (might be you Fat) said that he has never been to a church that he can agree 100% in the teaching. I have to say that it is getting harder every day to find a church that sticks to the Word, even that which is obvious.
Exactly !
It would be nice to find a church that I could agree with 50% of the time.
-
Hello Frank
As we've seen here there are as many doctrines as there are verses in the bible. There is only one true doctrine when it comes to Salvation that counts. We have a lot of other doctrines that we study and debate but they are not critical as the doctrine of Salvation.
IMHO
What are the words to this one true doctrine?
-
What are the words to this one true doctrine?
Hi Bob,
John 3:5
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 3:5
John 14:6
Acts 3:19
Ephesians 1:13
Ephesians 1:7
Ephesians 2:5
-
Hi Bob,
John 3:5
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 3:5
John 14:6
Acts 3:19
Ephesians 1:13
Ephesians 1:7
Ephesians 2:5
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt. 7:21-23
It's obvious these "many" people
all believed they were saved. So how
is it the Lord said, "depart from me?" The Lord has
condemned them to hell.
The Lord says "I never knew you." How is that possible?
You have 2 people.
One is OBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
One is DISOBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
Which one is Jesus going to say depart from me,
ye that work iniquity?
A. The one obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
B. The one disobeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
-
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt. 7:21-23
It's obvious these "many" people
all believed they were saved. So how
is it the Lord said, "depart from me?" The Lord has
condemned them to hell.
The Lord says "I never knew you." How is that possible?
You have 2 people.
One is OBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
One is DISOBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
Which one is Jesus going to say depart from me,
ye that work iniquity?
A. The one obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
B. The one disobeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatins 1:8-9 KJV)
Romans 9 "16. So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
Romans 3 "11. THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;"

John 6 "44. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6 "65. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.""
-
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt. 7:21-23
It's obvious these "many" people
all believed they were saved. So how
is it the Lord said, "depart from me?" The Lord has
condemned them to hell.
The Lord says "I never knew you." How is that possible?
You have 2 people.
One is OBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
One is DISOBEYING the commandments of Jesus Christ.
Which one is Jesus going to say depart from me,
ye that work iniquity?
A. The one obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
B. The one disobeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
B. The one disobeying the commandments of Jesus Christ.
-
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatins 1:8-9 KJV)
Anyone who preaches another Gospel other
that the one Jesus Christ preached and gave to the people,
They are cursed.
A. True
B. False
-
Anyone who preaches another Gospel other
that the one Jesus Christ preached and gave to the people,
They are of the devil.
A. True
B. False
-
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatins 1:8-9 KJV)
Romans 9 "16. So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
Romans 3 "11. THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;"

John 6 "44. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6 "65. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.""
2 John
Chapter 1
9: Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the
doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father
and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you,
and bring not this doctrine, receive him not
into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed
is partaker of his evil deeds.
The doctrine of Christ
are the commandments of Jesus Christ.
A. True
B. False
-
2 John
Chapter 1
9: Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the
doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father
and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you,
and bring not this doctrine, receive him not
into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed
is partaker of his evil deeds.
The doctrine of Christ
are the commandments of Jesus Christ.
A. True
B. False
NAS
9. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
So what did Christ teach?
John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
-
Matthew
Chapter 7
Verse 6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs
neither cast ye your pearls before swine
lest they trample them under their feet
and turn again and rend you.
Does God give that which
is Holy to the unholy?
A. Yes
B. No
Is the Gospel
of Jesus Christ holy?
A. Yes
B. No
Are you holy?
A. Yes
B. No
-
2 John
Chapter 1
9: Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the
doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father
and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you,
and bring not this doctrine, receive him not
into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed
is partaker of his evil deeds.
The doctrine of Christ
are the commandments of Jesus Christ.
A. True
B. False
A. True
-
NAS
So what did Christ teach?
Christ taught
the commandments to life everlasting that God His Father
gave to Him to speak.
-
Christ taught
the commandments to life everlasting that God His Father
gave to Him to speak.
Instruction about Prayer for believers
1 It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples."
2 And He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. 3 'Give us each day our daily bread. 4 'And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.' "
5 Then He said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, 'Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7 and from inside he answers and says, 'Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.' 8 "I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs. 9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
Note verse 4, why should these believers, disciples, need to ask for forgiveness if they have not sinned since they were forgiven already.
The Bible has to be read as a whole, christians will sin and they will know they were sinning when they do, and it will weigh heavy on thier heart. Peter sinned at Christ's crucifixion but he was forgiven after the resurrection.
Robert, you cannot look anybody in the eye and say that you have not sinned since you found Christ. I know of no one that can make that claim and if you truly believe what you are pushing on this board that you must believe that you have lost your salvation. Work as hard as you can to keep God's Commandments, you will occasionally fail and there will be a time when you have to answer for your transgressions, but that will be a judgment by Christ not by the Father. Romans 8:1
-
Instruction about Prayer for believers
1 It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples."
2 And He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. 3 'Give us each day our daily bread. 4 'And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.' "
5 Then He said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, 'Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7 and from inside he answers and says, 'Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.' 8 "I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs. 9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
Note verse 4, why should these believers, disciples, need to ask for forgiveness if they have not sinned since they were forgiven already.
The Bible has to be read as a whole, christians will sin and they will know they were sinning when they do, and it will weigh heavy on thier heart. Peter sinned at Christ's crucifixion but he was forgiven after the resurrection.
Robert, you cannot look anybody in the eye and say that you have not sinned since you found Christ. I know of no one that can make that claim and if you truly believe what you are pushing on this board that you must believe that you have lost your salvation. Work as hard as you can to keep God's Commandments, you will occasionally fail and there will be a time when you have to answer for your transgressions, but that will be a judgment by Christ not by the Father. Romans 8:1
When you are born again
you are a new creature all things are new.
At that point in time you have never sinned.
A. True
B. False
-
Hi Bob,
John 3:5
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 3:5
John 14:6
Acts 3:19
Ephesians 1:13
Ephesians 1:7
Ephesians 2:5
Hi there everyone in discussion in regards to this Thread, and peace be with you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST. By witnessing your quotation of Scriptures in regards to 'doctrine', only in part testifies merely the beginning of the Gospel doctrine. That is the preaching and teaching of salvation and where initially people who believe, have come into repentance, and many are already well verse of that.
Well, are these the only Scriptures for doctrine in the New Testament that justifies a Christian's salvation and promise in full?
What about the 'sound doctrine', according to 2Timothy3:16&17, that the 'man of GOD' may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?
-
Hi there everyone in discussion in regards to this Thread, and peace be with you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST. By witnessing your quotation of Scriptures in regards to 'doctrine', only in part testifies merely the beginning of the Gospel doctrine. That is the preaching and teaching of salvation and where initially people who believe, have come into repentance, and many are already well verse of that.
Well, are these the only Scriptures for doctrine in the New Testament that justifies a Christian's salvation and promise in full?
What about the 'sound doctrine', according to 2Timothy3:16&17, that the 'man of GOD' may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?
Hello Fred,
Glad to meet you. I see you use the KJV, I use the NAS see the deference below. Of coarse there are many more New Testament. In the OT it starts with Gen 3:15 and in the NT Matt 1:21:, Mark 1:15, Luke 1:17, John 1:12, 13. What I am trying to say Fred is that you could the GOOD news all throughout the Scriptures far to many to list on this thread.
2Timothy3:16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17. so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Blessings
Fat
-
Hello Fred,
Glad to meet you. I see you use the KJV, I use the NAS see the deference below. Of coarse there are many more New Testament. In the OT it starts with Gen 3:15 and in the NT Matt 1:21:, Mark 1:15, Luke 1:17, John 1:12, 13. What I am trying to say Fred is that you could the GOOD news all throughout the Scriptures far to many to list on this thread.
2Timothy3:16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17. so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Blessings
Fat
Dear 'Fat', are you really 'fat', or just a 'nickname'?
Nevertheless, back to discussion, i would want to say that there is no major contradictory difference between both 'versions', in order to nullify one another. When the KJV version uses the word 'may be perfect', and is in conjuction with what CHRIST said in the Gospel, that;
"Be ye perfect as your FATHER in Heaven is perfect."
And with, 'thoroughly furnished', which means, 'equipped with whatever is needed.' Or, 'supplied with furniture'. While yours is 'equipped', that is, 'for every good work'.
-
Hi Fred
Matthew 5:48 does not use the same wording.
Matthew 5:48
teleios
2 Timothy 3:17
artios
Even the NKJV makes the distinction :
Matt 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect (teleios), just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
2 Tim 3:17 that the man of God may be complete (artios), thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I grew up on the KJV and was bless by reading it, but it has flaws like I have.
So "What about the 'sound doctrine', according to 2Timothy3:16&17"
I am sola scriptura and do not believe in following out side of His word. And I do not believe that I should allow the Pope or any other religious leader to be the Ultimate authority on what the Scriptures say. Interpretation is important to me.
So yes, All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
In His Service
Fat (Phatt)
-
I think the forum rules require that you be able to backup your post with scripture.