Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Bible Study => Topic started by: theMadJW on April 27, 2013, 03:06:22 pm
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John 17:3- And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
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to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.'" Ex 3.14
Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 8.58
John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.” (NWT)
Father
Revelation1:8 “I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (NWT)
Son
Revelation 22:13 I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (NWT)
"First and Last," "Alpha and Omega," "Beginning and End" are terms for God, yet Jesus used them to refer to Himself. Are you saying that Jesus was a false teacher?
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The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-
Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
this is my name FOREVER,
and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.
FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!
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Ego Eime (translated deceptively as "I AM" at John 8:58) was used often by many others- such as Paul, Peter, Timothy, and even JUDAS!
Because it meant "I am, was, have been, and existed". Why don't the translators have THEM speaking e-bonics -"I AM"?
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/MadMag/CHURCHianity/TWINITY/Judas-Iscariot_I_AM.png) (http://s875.photobucket.com/user/MadMag/media/CHURCHianity/TWINITY/Judas-Iscariot_I_AM.png.html)
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The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-
Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
this is my name FOREVER,
and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.
FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!
Please finish your post and address “I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga", and John 20:28.
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Revelation is a symbolic vision one cannot understand without knowing God and Christ FIRST.
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.
It has NOTHING to do with the deceptive translation of John 8:58
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Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?
If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?
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Revelation is a symbolic vision one cannot understand without knowing God and Christ FIRST.
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.
It has NOTHING to do with the deceptive translation of John 8:58
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.
And that's it, your deep study into the trinity? Symbolic vision. They share titles.
Phat posted a biblical question for JW's that has yet to be answerred by any of them, The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors? you can find it at http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673 (http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673)
With all your hours of studding the Scripture I an sure you can set him straight in his fallacy.
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2This one was in [the] beginning with God.3All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
If the Word was with God in the beginning doesn't that mean that the Word was not created? Your translation has a few wholes in it.
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Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?
If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?
Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” NWT
So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.
revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Matt 25:46 NWT
And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion
As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
19 In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”20Therefore the Jews said: “This temple was built in forty‐six years, and will you raise it up in three days?”21 But he was talking about the temple of his body.
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Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?
If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?
Christ body was never corrupted so when he was resurrected he still carried the wounds of his death, as your translation teaches us.
Luke 24 NWT
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have.”40[[And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet.]]41But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: “Do YOU have something there to eat?”42And they handed him a piece of broiled fish;43and he took it and ate it before their eyes.
What your translation also teaches us that man's body is corrupt and he will be given a new body that is uncorrupt when he is risen.
1 Cor. 15 NWT
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption.43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power.44It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.45It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life‐giving spirit.46Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual.47The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven.48As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also.49And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.
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Your translation seems to conterdict it's self.
John 1
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Isa 45:5
I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me,
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Your translation seems to conterdict it's self.
John 1
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Isa 45:5
I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me,
It's full of conterdictions.
Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
So He was by Himself or maybe not.
Genesis 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”
John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Here they refer to the Holy Spirit and God as the same.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said: “An‧a‧ni′as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God.”
The Pharisees denied the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, as do the JW's.
The Pharisees denied the physical resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone, as do the JW's.
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Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
So He was by Himself or maybe not.
He was talking to Israel- who knew NOTHING about God having a son- and was comparing Himself to all the false gods they were starting to worship, believing that THEY had made all things. Your church teaches you NOTHING...
Genesis 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”
Jesus was there, as well as many angels. Just how many Gods are IN your Twinity?
John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2- This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3- All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
So, the Word (later named "Jesus") was with God. SPOKE for God, thus "was' God- as Moses was. (Ex 7:1). Your point?
Here they refer to the Holy Spirit and God as the same.
Acts 5:3- But Peter said: “An‧a‧ni′as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4- As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God.”
When you read the word "spirit", you can mislead yourself thinking of the church-fabricated Nameless Ghost-God- or UNDERSTAND what's meant by thinking of it as it LITERALLY MEANS in the Hebrew and Greek: "breath, wind". It was the holy Breath of God they were lying against. Jehovah never has,nor ever will become human- as His son once did. Thus he speaks, empowers and comforts thru the unseen POWER illustrated by breath and wind.
The Pharisees denied the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, as do the JW's.
The Pharisees denied the physical resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone, as do the JW's.
Do you understand ANYTHING????
JESUS denied being God! The Pharisees were the ones claiming he TAUGHT that! (Jesus said God SENT him, and COMMANDED him)
They didn't WANT to believe he was resurrected.
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/MadMag/CHURCHianity/HeadSand.jpg) (http://s875.photobucket.com/user/MadMag/media/CHURCHianity/HeadSand.jpg.html)
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biblebuf-
Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”
No. Churchianity makes Him a liar. Ever hear about the DAY of Noah? Jesus' DAY? The DAY God made all things?
So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.
Churchianity and other religions try to change the definition. Death means one is NO LONGER ALIVE. Thus, God's arrangement of a future RESURRECTION (RETURNING to life)
Gen 2: 7 shows that the person is a soul- not that one was inserted.
revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
VERY GOOD! See what the 'Lake' symbolizes?
Matt 25:46 NWT
And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion
BINGO! Eternal Death- destruction is the punishment, and Eternal Life (no 'immortal' souls) is the Reward / Gift!
As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
Silly churchoid- Jesus used the word "Temple" in this illustration- WHY?
If he was ALIVE those 3 days- why would he NEED a Resurrection (returning to life)?
If he was DEAD (no longer alive) those 3 days- how COULD he resurrect himself?
TheBible- and Jesus HIMSELF- says everywhere else that it was GOD who resurrected him.
Connect the dots!
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/MadMag/CHURCHianity/ResurerectionTWICE_zps67c07e5a.jpg) (http://s875.photobucket.com/user/MadMag/media/CHURCHianity/ResurerectionTWICE_zps67c07e5a.jpg.html)
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The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-
Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
this is my name FOREVER,
and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.
FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!
It appears you have the luxury when to declare symbolism as nonrelevant and when to declare it relevant.
The Catholic Church gives sole authority to the interpretation of the Bible to itself, that be in the Vatican. The Mormon church gives sole authority for interpreting the Bible to the Mormon prophet.
My church (assembly of believers) gives the authority for interpretation of the Scriptures to the Holy Ghost.
So my question is who do you Jehovah's Witnesses look to for interpretation of the Scriptures.
P.S. Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Which brings up another inconsistency of your translation. How does your watchtower explain the contradiction in these two verses?
John 14:6 (NWT)
6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 6:65 (NWT)
So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
This inconsistency does not exist in any other English translation of the holy Scriptures that I'm aware of. It is amazing that all the problems and inconsistencies in your Bible come from the changing, or adding, one letter to one verse in John. Many inconsistencies of been pointed out here to you and you stumbled very badly in trying to answer the problems that your translation has. It's amazing what Satan has done with one letter, he is stolen so many souls from Christ.
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biblebuf-
Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”
No. Churchianity makes Him a liar. Ever hear about the DAY of Noah? Jesus' DAY? The DAY God made all things?
So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.
Churchianity and other religions try to change the definition. Death means one is NO LONGER ALIVE. Thus, God's arrangement of a future RESURRECTION (RETURNING to life)
Gen 2: 7 shows that the person is a soul- not that one was inserted.
revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
VERY GOOD! See what the 'Lake' symbolizes?
Matt 25:46 NWT
And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion
BINGO! Eternal Death- destruction is the punishment, and Eternal Life (no 'immortal' souls) is the Reward / Gift!
As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
Silly churchoid- Jesus used the word "Temple" in this illustration- WHY?
If he was ALIVE those 3 days- why would he NEED a Resurrection (returning to life)?
If he was DEAD (no longer alive) those 3 days- how COULD he resurrect himself?
TheBible- and Jesus HIMSELF- says everywhere else that it was GOD who resurrected him.
Connect the dots!
You make no sense in your babbling, do you understand that the sacrifice to take away the sins of the world had to be a perfect sacrifice? Do you not understand that there is only one that is perfect? Who shows most love, the one who orders someone to sacrifice himself or one who sacrifices himself? Has God ever created a creation as perfect as is Himself? How could Jesus have more love than God?
May you find a truth before it is too late.
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And that's it, your deep study into the trinity? Symbolic vision. They share titles.
Phat posted a biblical question for JW's that has yet to be answerred by any of them, The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors? you can find it at http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673 (http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673)
With all your hours of studding the Scripture I an sure you can set him straight in his fallacy.
If the Word was with God in the beginning doesn't that mean that the Word was not created? Your translation has a few wholes in it.
I'm GLAD to answer that- mwith SCRIPTURE...but it looks like that just won't be GOOD enough for you...-
Rev 7:10- And they were shouting with a great roar,
“Salvation comes from our God who sits on the throne >>> and <<< from the Lamb!”
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Zant Law:
It appears you have the luxury when to declare symbolism as nonrelevant and when to declare it relevant.
The Symbolism cannot be understood by one believing church dogmas which contradict EVERYTHING the Bible says about Jesus and his God.
The Catholic Church gives sole authority to the interpretation of the Bible to itself, that be in the Vatican. The Mormon church gives sole authority for interpreting the Bible to the Mormon prophet.
My church (assembly of believers) gives the authority for interpretation of the Scriptures to the Holy Ghost.
Really? The Catholic-Fabricated Nameless Ghost-God? Does 'He' give sermons at your church?
So my question is who do you Jehovah's Witnesses look to for interpretation of the Scriptures.
As James, Jesus' brother stated, we ask Goid for understanding- and he ALWAYS gives it!
P.S. Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Or "the Salvation OF Jehovah"
Which brings up another inconsistency of your translation. How does your watchtower explain the contradiction in these two verses?
John 14:6 (NWT)
6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 6:65 (NWT)
So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
This inconsistency does not exist in any other English translation of the holy Scriptures that I'm aware of. It is amazing that all the problems and inconsistencies in your Bible come from the changing, or adding, one letter to one verse in John. Many inconsistencies of been pointed out here to you and you stumbled very badly in trying to answer the problems that your translation has. It's amazing what Satan has done with one letter, he is stolen so many souls from Christ.
The inconsistency is in your mind: Jehovah leads the sincere to His son, who then teaches them the things about his God and Father.
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So, you answer with QUESTIONS?
Ones making as little sense as you cheap theology?
Who said Jehovah ORDERED Jesus to carry out that mission?
As to perfection; ALL things God makes are perfect, and, as scriptures state, jesus is the EXACT REFLECTION of his God and Father.,
Do you WANT to understand anything?
Or- heh- think you already DO?
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First- they deny that Jesus' God and Father is the ONLY true God- as Jesus himself said (John 17:3).
Second- they add Jesus, and the Nameless Ghost that the Catholic Church fabricated so long ago.
Third- they say Jesus NEVER DIED ('immortal soul') and is still a Man ...in HEAVEN!
Fourth- They teach They are- and will FOREVER- burn alive Trillions.
Fifth- well- let me know if you want MORE!
Is there anything TRUE that they teach about Him...or, heh, 'Them'?
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Endless accusations claiming otherwise are common, and the typical bigot merely CnPs huge lists from church sites.
On the other hand, when ONE is posted at a time, it is EASY to take a close look at the claim and see the TRUTH!
Any Takers?
We ALL know the the NWT has a gigantic 'head start', since it is one of the VERY few translations that does not REMOVE God's Name (that He said would be so FOREVER)- over 6,800 times! Also, it does not play 'musical chairs' as most do: translating the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul, hell, spirit. etc" with several DIFFERENT words, to hide their REAL meaning.
So- let's see if any of you can 'put your money where your MOUTH is'! :D
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First- they deny that Jesus' God and Father is the ONLY true God- as Jesus himself said (John 17:3).
Second- they add Jesus, and the Nameless Ghost that the Catholic Church fabricated so long ago.
Third- they say Jesus NEVER DIED ('immortal soul') and is still a Man ...in HEAVEN!
Fourth- They teach They are- and will FOREVER- burn alive Trillions.
Fifth- well- let me know if you want MORE!
Is there anything TRUE that they teach about Him...or, heh, 'Them'?
Three point I want to make to you here in public.
1) I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board.
2) Just for your edification Catholics are not considerred a Christian religion.
3) Name calling gets you nowhere unless you are in kindergarten class room.
As far as you not understanding the Christian belief, well we are here to help do that.
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Endless accusations claiming otherwise are common, and the typical bigot merely CnPs huge lists from church sites.
On the other hand, when ONE is posted at a time, it is EASY to take a close look at the claim and see the TRUTH!
Any Takers?
We ALL know the the NWT has a gigantic 'head start', since it is one of the VERY few translations that does not REMOVE God's Name (that He said would be so FOREVER)- over 6,800 times! Also, it does not play 'musical chairs' as most do: translating the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul, hell, spirit. etc" with several DIFFERENT words, to hide their REAL meaning.
So- let's see if any of you can 'put your money where your MOUTH is'! :D
John 8:58
NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””.
Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.”
Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16).
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Three point I want to make to you here in public.
1) I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board.
2) Just for your edification Catholics are not considerred a Christian religion.
3) Name calling gets you nowhere unless you are in kindergarten class room.
As far as you not understanding the Christian belief, well we are here to help do that.
Sorry to see you insist on your own mistaken beliefs; for the Catholic Church CREATED most of your Dogma, Admin.
Are you sincere enough to test it?
The Bible tells us to "Keep Testing" what we believe.
I certainly do.
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" I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board."
Do you even know what a "GHOST" is?
Why the Catholic Church used THAT word?
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" I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board."
Do you even know what a "GHOST" is?
Why the Catholic Church used THAT word?
The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations
NWT “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven
I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.
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John 8:58
NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””.
Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.”
Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16).
THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?
Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:
1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ?
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.
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THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?
Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:
1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ?
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.
So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.
John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”
Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.
Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.
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The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations
NWT “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven
I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.
Does that mean you will ban me for pointing out what God's Word says? Be my guest if your are that phony.
Truth will ALWAYS prevail; too bad you do not know that.
Question; Why did Jesus say blasphemies against HIM would be forgiven- but NOT against the holy spirit?
Does your church teach them Co-Supreme, Co-Equal?
"Ghost" is the word referring to the unseen 'immortal soul' of a 'dead' ,one that returns to earth to HAUNT PEOPLE.
When the RCC began, it used that term to terrify and mystify the highly superstitious masses.
"Holy"= set apart in purity
"Spirit"= "Wind, Breath" in the Hebrew and Greek, used by God to describe his form, those in heaven, and the unseen power he acts through.
We have been PROGRAMMED to read "holy spirit" as "the Holy Ghost-God" - instead of what it REALLY is- the Holy Breath (spirit) of God.
God, Christ, and others referred to it as "it"
God fills people with IT, pours it out, and even split IT into portions. (Num 11)
God manifests it ONLY as a glowing light- NEVER in human form- as He , Christ, and angels were.
IT has no name, is NEVER seen in any of the visions of God & Christ.
Jesus NEVER tells us to praise, or serve it.
So, admin- how HONEST will you be...with YOURSELF?
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So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.
John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”
Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.
Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.
Thank you for your NEXT example- but won't you stick with the FIRST until settled?
Or do you ACKNOWLEDGE having Jesus speaking e-bonics is deceptive?
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Well, 'biblebuf'?
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Why would I want to compare the NWT to any other translation when on it's face it contradicts itself when these contradictions are not found in the NAS?
I asked a simple question of you, I'll repost it here to save you the trouble of looking it up.
The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors?
As most people know the Jehovah's witnesses have rewritten the Bible for the sole purpose of separating Christ and God the Father. They still do not explain how they can have two saviors when in Isaiah 43:10-11 their own translation says, "YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”
In many verses in their translation of the Bible such as acts 13:23 they refer to the Savior of Israel as Jesus. It is repeated again and acts 5:31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And in 2 Timothy 1:10 they refer to the Savior as Jesus Christ. There are many more verses in the Bible such as first John 4:14, Titus 2:6-14, acts 4:9-12 Titus 1:1-16, 2 Timothy 1:10. Sometimes when the Savior is being referred to as Christ is in lower case and sometimes it is capitalized apparently for no rhyme or reason. It appears they've concentrated so hard on trying to divide the Father and the Son that they forgot that only one, according to the Father can be the savior of Israel.
1 John 4: (NWT)
14 In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world.
Titus 2: (NWT)
6 Likewise keep on exhorting the younger men to be sound in mind, 7 in all things showing yourself an example of fine works; showing uncorruptness in your teaching, seriousness, 8 wholesome speech which cannot be condemned; so that the man on the opposing side may get ashamed, having nothing vile to say about us. 9 Let slaves be in subjection to their owners in all things, and please them well, not talking back, 10 not committing theft, but exhibiting good fidelity to the full, so that they may adorn the teaching of our Savior, God, in all things.
Acts 4 (NWT)
9 if we are this day being examined, on the basis of a good deed to an ailing man, as to by whom this man has been made well, 10 let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom YOU impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of YOU. 11 This is ‘the stone that was treated by YOU builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’ 12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
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Fat- diversion will work ONLY when I wish to play: I don't.
Either make one accusation @ the NWT at a time, so that we can examine it together, or I will just ignore you.
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Again the NWT tells us that the Father of Christ is Jehovah but it also tells us that the spirit is the is the Father.
But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united.(NWT)
And of course it tells us that they are not one, RIGHT.
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit (NWT)
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Fat- diversion will work ONLY when I wish to play: I don't.
Either make one accusation @ the NWT at a time, so that we can examine it together, or I will just ignore you.
So you are refusing to answer because you are talking with BB who is at work?
OK we can draw the answer form that. Thank you and goodbye.
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Fat, diversions from the Topic DESTROY the Topic. I have SEVERAL other topics where we can discuss this- if you wish.
I assure you the answers are far simpler than you can imagine!
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Thank you for your NEXT example- but won't you stick with the FIRST until settled?
Or do you ACKNOWLEDGE having Jesus speaking e-bonics is deceptive?
You agreed that Jehovah used more than one name. You want now to walk that back, NO.
Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
Looks like we're done here. Have a good day.
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You agreed that Jehovah used more than one name. You want now to walk that back, NO.
Looks like we're done here. Have a good day.
Notice how they RUN from facts, to stick with church dogma?
Anyone ELSE with an 'example' of NWT error?
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Notice how they RUN from facts, to stick with church dogma?
Anyone ELSE with an 'example' of NWT error?
I am reading the thread and see that you have refused to aswer NWT errors and now you ask me for another 'example'????
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Have Comprehension problems, Zanty?
ONE at a time.
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Have Comprehension problems, Zanty?
ONE at a time.
Notice how they RUN from facts, to stick with church dogma?
Anyone ELSE with an 'example' of NWT error?
Okay then your done or not? Have you answerred their examples or not. Can I ask you a question not addressed so far with out have your sarcastic childish remarks as a respounce?
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ZANT...READ CAREFULLY:
ONE...QUESTION...AT...A...TIME.
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ZANT...READ CAREFULLY:
ONE...QUESTION...AT...A...TIME.
You question was answerred, but I understand your problem, see you.
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More games. Yawn ::)
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First- nothing ANYWHERE in the Bible says or implies it's "immortal". That would mean Satan told Eve the TRUTH; that we never really die (stop living), since our good ol' 'immortal soul' would float off still alive. That would also make God the Liar- since he told them they would die...not Fry or Fly....
Second, the VERY FIRST REFERENCE to the human soul, if not warped by translation makes it VERY clear that no such 'soul' was put into Adam-
Gen 2:7- And Jehovah formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - KJV with God's Name put back in.
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STILL no answer as to who Jesus' God is????
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First- nothing ANYWHERE in the Bible says or implies it's "immortal". That would mean Satan told Eve the TRUTH; that we never really die (stop living), since our good ol' 'immortal soul' would float off still alive. That would also make God the Liar- since he told them they would die...not Fry or Fly....
Second, the VERY FIRST REFERENCE to the human soul, if not warped by translation makes it VERY clear that no such 'soul' was put into Adam-
Gen 2:7- And Jehovah formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - KJV with God's Name put back in.
What is a spirit is it deffrent than the soul?
NWT
50 On hearing this, Jesus answered him: “Have no fear, only put forth faith, and she will be saved.” 51 When he reached the house he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter and John and James and the girl’s father and mother. 52 But people were all weeping and beating themselves in grief for her. So he said: “STOP weeping, for she did not die but is sleeping.” 53 At this they began to laugh at him scornfully, because they knew she had died. 54 But he took her by the hand and called, saying: “Girl, get up!” 55 And her spirit returned, and she rose instantly, and he ordered something to be given her to eat.
NWT
30 When, now, he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and, bowing his head, he delivered up [his] spirit.
OH It's the spirit that lives and does not die, amazing!
Note that we learn later that Christ body had not gone up with his spirit but was delivered later on.
NWT
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”
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biblebuf: What is a spirit is it deffrent than the soul?
The Bible uses two different words.
The soul refers to a specific living being or creature- or some part of it .
"Spirit" refers to an unseen energy, power (lit, breath, wind)- like the Holy Spirit, or the form being in Heaven have.
God keeps all things ALIVE by His Breath (spirit).
Those that were temporarily resurrected had that power RETURN enliving their soul/body.
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Do you deny those FIRST two points?
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Do you deny those FIRST two points?
I agree with the Scripture, do you?
Have you read about the new body?
NAS
5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord - 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight - 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
YOUR BIBLE PUTS IT THIS WAY
20As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,21who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.
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BB, if you WANT to understand (and its sounding like you DON'T) stop thinking in churchese (church dogma).
Adam BECAME a soul. Animals and Fish are souls. (Genesis) Souls DIE. (Ezekiel) Souls are DESTROYED (CHrist).
There simply is NOTHING 'immortal' about them- unless God GIVES them immortality.
When you read the word "spirit", think BREATH/WIND- for that is what the word really means.
God comforts us with His holy Breath (spirit).
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BB, if you WANT to understand (and its sounding like you DON'T) stop thinking in churchese (church dogma).
Adam BECAME a soul. Animals and Fish are souls. (Genesis) Souls DIE. (Ezekiel) Souls are DESTROYED (CHrist).
There simply is NOTHING 'immortal' about them- unless God GIVES them immortality.
When you read the word "spirit", think BREATH/WIND- for that is what the word really means.
God comforts us with His holy Breath (spirit).
You don't get it do you?
John 3:6 CSB
Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NWT
6 What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit
Are you born again in the spirit?
NWT
3In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4Nic‧o‧de′mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?”5Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Will you get a new body into conformity with the body of His glory?
No don't tell me, I see your going to be wind... fantastic!!!!
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You don't get it do you?
Are you born again in the spirit?
NWT
3In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4Nic‧o‧de′mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?”5Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Will you get a new body into conformity with the body of His glory?
No don't tell me, I see your going to be wind... fantastic!!!!
Ridiculing God's description is evidence of your insinjcerity- for he chose the word for Breath/Wind (ruach/pneuma) to describe his form and power.
Are you possessed of a Nameless Ghost-God, or filled with the holy breath of God?
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No more takers?
maybe one day someone, somewhere WILL find an error; I haven't in over 30 years!
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No one here knows who the God of Jesus Christ is?
SHOCKING! heh
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Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
So He was by Himself or maybe not.
He was talking to Israel- who knew NOTHING about God having a son- and was comparing Himself to all the false gods they were starting to worship, believing that THEY had made all things. Your church teaches you NOTHING...
Job 9:8 teaches that God alone created everything, and the context does not have to do with false gods being worshiped.
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John 17:3- And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
In the New World Translation it reads that the Lord Jesus is our only owner and Lord. (the underlined is mine)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Jude+4
But then in 2 Timothy 2:21 the Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that Jehovah is our owner.
2 Timothy 2:21
So if anyone keeps clear of the latter ones, he will be an instrument for an honorable use, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=2+Timothy+2%3A21
ACCEPT MOLDING BY JEHOVAH
15. To what extent would you like to be molded by Jehovah? Illustrate.
15 With the help of Jehovah’s worldwide congregation, we may become aware of Bible principles that deal with a specific course. For instance, we might know how we ought to respond if a brother seems to rub us the wrong way. (Eph. 4:32) We might admit that the Bible’s counsel is right and wise. Yet, what kind of clay will we prove to be? Will we really respond to being molded by Jehovah? If our heart is malleable, we will change for the better; the Great Potter will mold us into a vessel more suitable for his use. (Read Romans 9:20, 21; 2 Timothy 2:20, 21.) Rather than show a heart attitude like that of Jehoiakim or the slave owners in Zedekiah’s day, we should accept being molded by Jehovah for an honorable purpose.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010143
To Whom does the only owner in heaven refer to? Jehovah (2 Timothy 2:21) or to the Lord Jesus (Jude 1:4)?
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Hello Xuan
I have a question that I cannot get the JWs to answer.
They claim that Christ is a lesser and separate God In the NWT John 1:1. But they have a problem explaining other scripture using that interpretation, for instance, “And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.” Mark 10:18 NASB
What they must believe is that their savior is not good.
When ask about this they say that Mark 10:18 reads the same in the KJV. But they cannot understand that it revolves around their mistranslation of John 1. By putting an “a” before God and using a low case “g” they have made themselves a savior that Christ would not have you call “good “.
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Hello Fat,
That is an excellent point.
That the Lord Jesus asked why He was being called "good" does not necessitate a denial. I'll give an example as to why it isn't a denial based on what I experienced many times when I first began teaching English in South Korea (1995). Oftentimes when children would see me they would say, "Miguk saram imnida!" meaning "You are an American!" However, they did this to many foreigners who happened to be Caucasian. Had I been able to speak Korean to them I would have asked them, "Why do you call me an American?" or "What makes you say that I am an American?" In both questions I am simply asking them the reason why they are calling me an American, but nowhere am I denying that I am an American (to which I am).
The absolute holiness of the Father and the absolute holiness of the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 6:9
Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. (NASB)
1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence. (NASB)
The Greek word for "Hallowed" in Matthew 6:9 is hagiazō and it is the same word used in reference to the Lord Jesus in 1 Peter 3:15 for "sanctify." Just as the Father is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness so too the Lord Jesus is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness.
G. W. Blenkin: Christians are to treat the indwelling presence of Christ, as Lord and Master in their hearts, as a kind of sacred shrine which must never be surrendered or profaned by cowardly fears or inconsistent conduct...In Isaiah the words are merely “Sanctify Jehovah.” The constant transference to Christ of language referring to Jehovah in the O.T. is one indication of the full Divinity ascribed to Christ by N.T. writers. (1 Peter, Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges)
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cgt/1-peter-3.html
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No one here knows who the God of Jesus Christ is?
SHOCKING! heh
It's not shocking that the Father refers to the Lord Jesus as "God" in Hebrews 1:8 and the Lord Jesus refers to the Father as "God" in John 6:27.
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It's not shocking that the Father refers to the Lord Jesus as "God" in Hebrews 1:8 and the Lord Jesus refers to the Father as "God" in John 6:27.
Xuan
That does put it in perspective, you shut down the thread with just two verses. ;D