Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Bible Study => Topic started by: biblebuf on November 03, 2011, 11:20:17 pm
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John 10:16 NAS
11 "I am the good shepherd ; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 "He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 "He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father ; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold ; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice ; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
The joining of the Jew and the Gentile. The Jews are God's chosen people and through the Jews the Son of David offered eternal life to the Gentile elect.
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Hello BB
I see more to this verse, words mean things. Look at the word have, I have other sheep
He is not talking about sheep He will acquire in the future, He is saying He has already acquired these sheep.
Twice He uses the phrase ' they will 'This term is an absolute, He did not say some might, or maybe they will.
Remember at this time the calling of the Gentiles had not began and Paul had not started his ministry to them.
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Hi , and John 10:16 , " they shall hear " is a verb ( AKOUO ) and is in the Future Tense , Actice voice and in the Indicative mood of Fact .
#1 , These sheep are not Gentiles !
#2 , Only Jews are called sheep !
#3 , Do you see Paul call the Body of Christ Sheep ?
#4 , These sheep are the Jews that enter the Millennium !!
#5 , Jews are always separate from Gentiles , period , see Num 23:9 !!
dan p
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Hi , and John 10:16 , " they shall hear " is a verb ( AKOUO ) and is in the Future Tense , Actice voice and in the Indicative mood of Fact .
#1 , These sheep are not Gentiles !
#2 , Only Jews are called sheep !
#3 , Do you see Paul call the Body of Christ Sheep ?
#4 , These sheep are the Jews that enter the Millennium !!
#5 , Jews are always separate from Gentiles , period , see Num 23:9 !!
dan p
Jews are always separate from Gentiles , period , see Num 23:9 !!
Not so!
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Note that Paul include himself, a Jew, with the gentiles.
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Hi , and a question for you !!
#1 , Are we saved by Grace Eph 2:8 ??
#2 , Or are saved by being Grafted into to an Olive Tree ?
#3 , Does being Grafted into the Olive , NEGATE 1 Cor 12:13 , where the Holy Spirit BAPTIZO/PLACES all believers n9into the Body of Christ ??
Rom 11:17 is yet Future as Rom 11:25 reveals !!!!
dan p
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Hi , and a question for you !!
#1 , Are we saved by Grace Eph 2:8 ??
#2 , Or are saved by being Grafted into to an Olive Tree ?
#3 , Does being Grafted into the Olive , NEGATE 1 Cor 12:13 , where the Holy Spirit BAPTIZO/PLACES all believers n9into the Body of Christ ??
Rom 11:17 is yet Future as Rom 11:25 reveals !!!!
dan p
You are grafted onto the Olive Tree and are joined to the promiss at the time your receive God's grace.
John 17:20 I pray not only for these, but also for those who believe in Me through their message. 21 May they all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You. May they also be one in Us, so the world may believe You sent Me.
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Hi , and what believers fail to see , is that Israel was set aside at the Cross and to day the message is the Grace of God as Acts 20:24 revealed to Paul .
Rom 11:21 did not spare Israel and were set aside , and any Gentiles that is grafted in can also be cut out .
Glad to say that we are " in Christ " which you ahve failed to see and are NOT in and Olive Tree .
The Body of Christ is not called an Olive Tree < period , dan p
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Hi , and what believers fail to see , is that Israel was set aside at the Cross and to day the message is the Grace of God as Acts 20:24 revealed to Paul .
Rom 11:21 did not spare Israel and were set aside , and any Gentiles that is grafted in can also be cut out .
Glad to say that we are " in Christ " which you ahve failed to see and are NOT in and Olive Tree .
The Body of Christ is not called an Olive Tree < period , dan p
"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” 27 “And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable," (Rom. 11:25-29).
Is your God a liar? If Israel is saved will they not be part of the body? John 17
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Hi , and there was never a covenant ever given to Gentiles and Eph 2:12 says so , and your verses above are MOOT !! DAN P
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Hi , and there was never a covenant ever given to Gentiles and Eph 2:12 says so , and your verses above are MOOT !! DAN P
genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed ; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
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Hi , and I see that you have not responed to Eph 2:12 , where no Covenant was NEVER given to Gentiles and your argument is MOOT , dan p
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Hi , and I see that you have not responed to Eph 2:12 , where no Covenant was NEVER given to Gentiles and your argument is MOOT , dan p
The promis made to Abraham was for all the Earth.
Read the verse
genesis 12:3
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Hi , and the Abrahamic Covenant is yet FUTURE and this is the age of Grace , Acts 20:24 , and are out of touch with the Dispensation of Grace that Paul is preaching for today , dan p
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Hi , and the Abrahamic Covenant is yet FUTURE and this is the age of Grace , Acts 20:24 Dispensation of Grace , and are out of touch with the Dispensation of Grace that Paul is preaching for today , dan p
Your verse does not support your view.
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Hi and in Matt 28:19 and 20 the 11 disciples were command to preach to all NATIONS/ETHNOS , have you seen any Jews going to the World as Gal 3:8 says , " that in thee SHALL all nations be Blessed " ?
The word SHALL is in the Future Tense !!!
There are 4 verb tenses in Gal 3:8 !!
" Be blessed " is in the Future tense , Passive voice and in the INDICATIVE mood of FACT , AND THIS WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED during the 1000 reign in the Millennium where there will be Olive tree grafting , dan p
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Hi and in Matt 28:19 and 20 the 11 disciples were command to preach to all NATIONS/ETHNOS , have you seen any Jews going to the World as Gal 3:8 says , " that in thee SHALL all nations be Blessed " ?
The word SHALL is in the Future Tense !!!
There are 4 verb tenses in Gal 3:8 !!
" Be blessed " is in the Future tense , Passive voice and in the INDICATIVE mood of FACT , AND THIS WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED during the 1000 reign in the Millennium where there will be Olive tree grafting , dan p
NEWS FLASH!!
Gal 3:8 accrued 4000 years ago and Matt 28 accrued over 2000 years ago.
This is the future.... :o Unless you are some kind of space traveler, and I beginning to think you are.
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Hi , and who said Matthew was written BEFORE Galatians , not true !!
Paul's letters were all written later !!
dan p
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Hi , and who said Matthew was written BEFORE Galatians , not true !!
Paul's letters were all written later !!
dan p
You have a problem reading and I can now see how you got your scriptures so mixed up.
NEWS FLASH!!
Gal 3:8 accrued 4000 years ago and Matt 28 accrued over 2000 years ago.
This is the future.... Unless you are some kind of space traveler, and I beginning to think you are.
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Hi , and God has seated all believers in the Heavenlies , and that qualifies me as a time traveler , as Paul say our citizenship is in heaven , dan p
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I think that people,mankind tries to catagorize things ,for example jew or gentile ,but not just these but as an example, it is hard or difficult to think that there may be a bigger picture and that the sheep as they are called are still his sheep no matter if they are not in the same place or in the same group but his none the less and one day will be one. This may have referred to the gentiles being grafted in becoming adopted therefore being isreal. This may have been also trying to show that those who are his can be anywhere in any place . we do know that those whose names are written in the book of life when that time comes are his , and those who are not are not, but they can be anyone from anywhere and will be one and in the same fold. but we can be certain we
individually do not know who they are or may be and we cannot concern ourselves with something we could possibly not know nor does it depend upon us knowing or disagreeing about it, it is and we must accept that whoever GOD chooses whoever they are where ever they are ,praise GOD for it and blessed are they for recieving. amen.
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John 10:16 NAS
11 "I am the good shepherd ; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 "He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 "He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father ; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold ; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice ; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
The joining of the Jew and the Gentile. The Jews are God's chosen people and through the Jews the Son of David offered eternal life to the Gentile elect.
I believe this refers to the Christians who are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church. Most Christians in the world are Catholic.
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I believe this refers to the Christians who are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church. Most Christians in the world are Catholic.
So you are stating that the catholic church teaches that there is salvation outside the catholic church?
We know that Paul had a great ministry in Rome. What kind of ministry did Peter have in Rome?