Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Apologetics => Topic started by: Zant Law on November 08, 2012, 05:22:05 pm
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I was watching a seven day Adventist explaining how that anyone that did not practice the Sabbath on Saturday was guilty of blasphemy and guaranteed a place in hell. I have always wonder how the seven day Adventist justify their beliefs when they are contrary to Romans 14. Maybe one of you out there can explain to me how this is done.
4 Who are you to criticize another's household slave? Before his own Lord he stands or falls. And stand he will! For the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 Whoever observes the day, observes it to the Lord. Whoever eats, eats to the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; and whoever does not eat, it is to the Lord that he does not eat, yet he thanks God.
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I was watching a seven day Adventist explaining how that anyone that did not practice the Sabbath on Saturday was guilty of blasphemy and guaranteed a place in hell. I have always wonder how the seven day Adventist justify their beliefs when they are contrary to Romans 14. Maybe one of you out there can explain to me how this is done.
FYI whoever you were listening to was probably not a SDA. The SDA teach Annihilationism so he/she was either misrepresenting their own beliefs or he/she was not SDA.
That aside I would also like to see them reconcile their Saturday only belief with Rom 14.
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The commandment to keep the sabbath is part of the ten,and remains, romans 14 simply indicates that some esteem everday alike
as holy ,and some esteem one day . In the bible ,the message is clear not keeping the sabbath is equaled to unbelief, so if romans 14 were to be taken to say not keeping it is ok ,then we have a contradiction which we know there is none but it does create one for those would indicate that the sabbath day is not more significant than any other day. The lord indicated the sabbath day in a prophecy regarding the end times, clearly showing that it would remain even until the end. Romans 14 does start out by saying it is dealing with the weak in faith, not the strong so it is clear that the weak do not have this knowledge , but of course cannot be shielded from the truth.
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I have a different take on Romans 14. I believe Romans 14 is saying the weaker brother is the one who only observes one day a week.
But I would like to address your post because I believe you will fall into a falsehood not supported by the Bible. You're relying on a man-made calendar to interpret the truth given to us in Scripture. The Scripture tells us we were to work six days and the rest the seventh day, keeping it holy unto the Lord. That seventh day is a Sabbath and is determined by the workweek not by the name of the days. Many countries start their calendars with Monday as the first day of the week, and Sunday as the last week. Most of the Western world starts its work week on Monday, and as I said many of the European countries also start calendar as Monday the first day of the week.
Let's review the text:
Deuteronomy 5:13 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Now as hard as I look within this commandment I do not see any day referred to by name. The Bible is very pacific, we are to work six days and the seventh day becomes a Sabbath. The Bible is not specific about what you should start your workweek nor what to call the days of the week. This is all a man-made trap which many have fallen into.
If you fall into this trap you must start your workweek on Sunday, and not use Sunday as a day to go to the beach, have a barbecue, or go visiting friends. You must start your workweek on Sunday, or according to your interpretation you are committing a violation of the commandment given to us in Deuteronomy 5:13.
Let me illustrate this by using a make-believe scenario.
Let's say that somebody filed a suit with the Supreme Court of United States claiming that the names on the calendar of the days of the week were a form of religious discrimination. Because some of the days had Jewish implications and some the days had pagan implications. So let's assume that the court found on the side of the plaintiff and ordered all names be stricken of the days of the week on the calendar used in the United States. To be fair when redesigning the calendars the names of the week were just by number. In other words you had the first day of the week, the second day of the week, the third day of week, and so on to the seventh day of the week. And furthermore to make it fair and easy for the calendar printers the first day of the week would start on January 1. And to go but further the calendar would start every year with January 1 as the first day of the week.
Now obviously if you follow the calendar like this you would actually lose some sabbath days and eventually you would have 2 sabbath days back to back, December 31 and January 1.
Following the man-made calendar is a trap and it is much better than we follow God's calendar that he made a very clear to us in Deuteronomy when he gave us the commandment, 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God'. This is a very simple commandment to follow, however some, like the Pharisees of old, want to manipulate it so they may use it for their own purposes, bringing glory and power to themselves.
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I have a different take on Romans 14. I believe Romans 14 is saying the weaker brother is the one who only observes one day a week.
But I would like to address your post because I believe you will fall into a falsehood not supported by the Bible. You're relying on a man-made calendar to interpret the truth given to us in Scripture. The Scripture tells us we were to work six days and the rest the seventh day, keeping it holy unto the Lord. That seventh day is a Sabbath and is determined by the workweek not by the name of the days. Many countries start their calendars with Monday as the first day of the week, and Sunday as the last week. Most of the Western world starts its work week on Monday, and as I said many of the European countries also start calendar as Monday the first day of the week.
Let's review the text:
Deuteronomy 5:13 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Now as hard as I look within this commandment I do not see any day referred to by name. The Bible is very pacific, we are to work six days and the seventh day becomes a Sabbath. The Bible is not specific about what you should start your workweek nor what to call the days of the week. This is all a man-made trap which many have fallen into.
If you fall into this trap you must start your workweek on Sunday, and not use Sunday as a day to go to the beach, have a barbecue, or go visiting friends. You must start your workweek on Sunday, or according to your interpretation you are committing a violation of the commandment given to us in Deuteronomy 5:13.
Let me illustrate this by using a make-believe scenario.
Let's say that somebody filed a suit with the Supreme Court of United States claiming that the names on the calendar of the days of the week were a form of religious discrimination. Because some of the days had Jewish implications and some the days had pagan implications. So let's assume that the court found on the side of the plaintiff and ordered all names be stricken of the days of the week on the calendar used in the United States. To be fair when redesigning the calendars the names of the week were just by number. In other words you had the first day of the week, the second day of the week, the third day of week, and so on to the seventh day of the week. And furthermore to make it fair and easy for the calendar printers the first day of the week would start on January 1. And to go but further the calendar would start every year with January 1 as the first day of the week.
Now obviously if you follow the calendar like this you would actually lose some sabbath days and eventually you would have 2 sabbath days back to back, December 31 and January 1.
Following the man-made calendar is a trap and it is much better than we follow God's calendar that he made a very clear to us in Deuteronomy when he gave us the commandment, 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God'. This is a very simple commandment to follow, however some, like the Pharisees of old, want to manipulate it so they may use it for their own purposes, bringing glory and power to themselves.
I that is a real nice to post Law, unfortunately it will not work with the SDA. You have to understand you're talking to the same people that say the Bible does not teach of the eternal damnation in hell. A major portion of them do not believe in the Trinity as we define it.
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I have a different take on Romans 14. I believe Romans 14 is saying the weaker brother is the one who only observes one day a week.
But I would like to address your post because I believe you will fall into a falsehood not supported by the Bible. You're relying on a man-made calendar to interpret the truth given to us in Scripture. The Scripture tells us we were to work six days and the rest the seventh day, keeping it holy unto the Lord. That seventh day is a Sabbath and is determined by the workweek not by the name of the days. Many countries start their calendars with Monday as the first day of the week, and Sunday as the last week. Most of the Western world starts its work week on Monday, and as I said many of the European countries also start calendar as Monday the first day of the week.
Let's review the text:
Deuteronomy 5:13 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Now as hard as I look within this commandment I do not see any day referred to by name. The Bible is very pacific, we are to work six days and the seventh day becomes a Sabbath. The Bible is not specific about what you should start your workweek nor what to call the days of the week. This is all a man-made trap which many have fallen into.
If you fall into this trap you must start your workweek on Sunday, and not use Sunday as a day to go to the beach, have a barbecue, or go visiting friends. You must start your workweek on Sunday, or according to your interpretation you are committing a violation of the commandment given to us in Deuteronomy 5:13.
Let me illustrate this by using a make-believe scenario.
Let's say that somebody filed a suit with the Supreme Court of United States claiming that the names on the calendar of the days of the week were a form of religious discrimination. Because some of the days had Jewish implications and some the days had pagan implications. So let's assume that the court found on the side of the plaintiff and ordered all names be stricken of the days of the week on the calendar used in the United States. To be fair when redesigning the calendars the names of the week were just by number. In other words you had the first day of the week, the second day of the week, the third day of week, and so on to the seventh day of the week. And furthermore to make it fair and easy for the calendar printers the first day of the week would start on January 1. And to go but further the calendar would start every year with January 1 as the first day of the week.
Now obviously if you follow the calendar like this you would actually lose some sabbath days and eventually you would have 2 sabbath days back to back, December 31 and January 1.
Following the man-made calendar is a trap and it is much better than we follow God's calendar that he made a very clear to us in Deuteronomy when he gave us the commandment, 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God'. This is a very simple commandment to follow, however some, like the Pharisees of old, want to manipulate it so they may use it for their own purposes, bringing glory and power to themselves.
unfortunately the only thing your failing to indicate is,GOD blessed and santified the seventh day and commanded isreal to keep the seventh day of rest, and clearly showed them which day that was by giving them mana on that day,and ever since that time isreal knew exactly which day that was and has kept it ever since. we also know which day was the seventh day because those who believe that christ rose on sunday morning and believe that sunday is now their day of worship or rest because of thier belief in the first day of the week resurrection, clearly indicating a move away from the sunset friday to sunset saturday sabbath. so we do know what day it is, we will never escape knowing, and the jews to this day acknowledge it as sunset friday to saturday. no way we can deny which day is the sabbath .
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unfortunately the only thing your failing to indicate is,GOD blessed and santified the seventh day and commanded isreal to keep the seventh day of rest, and clearly showed them which day that was by giving them mana on that day,and ever since that time isreal knew exactly which day that was and has kept it ever since. we also know which day was the seventh day because those who believe that christ rose on sunday morning and believe that sunday is now their day of worship or rest because of thier belief in the first day of the week resurrection, clearly indicating a move away from the sunset friday to sunset saturday sabbath. so we do know what day it is, we will never escape knowing, and the jews to this day acknowledge it as sunset friday to saturday. no way we can deny which day is the sabbath .
You have it right it is the seventh day. I like to know which version of the Bible you have that has the words Friday and Saturday in it?
Just a reminder the Bible says: 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God'. God relates the sabbath to six days of work nothing else it says nothing about manna. In the desert Moses worked them six days and on the seventh they rested.
Let's make sure we understand it does not say which day you start your work on it only says six days you shall work and the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Now I understand some people have a Bible that has extra words, some people have Bibles that even have extra books in them, but my Bible says: 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you'.
We just recently had a long thread with a Catholic who basis his religion on traditions not the scripture, that is exactly what you are trying to do when you claim that Jewish tradition trumps the holy Scriptures. After all what does the Jewish tradition tell them about the coming Messiah who they are still waiting for?
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You have it right it is the seventh day. I like to know which version of the Bible you have that has the words Friday and Saturday in it?
Just a reminder the Bible says: 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God'. God relates the sabbath to six days of work nothing else it says nothing about manna. In the desert Moses worked them six days and on the seventh they rested.
Let's make sure we understand it does not say which day you start your work on it only says six days you shall work and the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Now I understand some people have a Bible that has extra words, some people have Bibles that even have extra books in them, but my Bible says: 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you'.
We just recently had a long thread with a Catholic who basis his religion on traditions not the scripture, that is exactly what you are trying to do when you claim that Jewish tradition trumps the holy Scriptures. After all what does the Jewish tradition tell them about the coming Messiah who they are still waiting for?
It seems you totally avoided what i had pointed out. God blessed and sanctified the seventh day, and clearly indicated which day that was, and isreal continues to this day to acknowledge that day, as well as churches today as they believe chirst rose at sunrise the first day of the week, which clearly indicates which day is the sabbath and which day is the first day of the week,the only way to avoid knowing that the sabbath is sunset friday to sunset saturday is to believe that the jews have not kept it since
the time of moses. The modern churches also believe in the rise of christ on the first day of the week ,which they know to this day to be sunday the day after the sabbath, although calendars change , the hebrew calendar has not ,and they continue to this day from the time of moses and have kept it,this debunks the myth that we dont know which day it is ,although the word saturday is not used in correlation with sabbath ,we do know which day the sabbath is,becuase the jews have kept it from sunset friday to sunset saturday , what can anyone say to this? is the hebrew calendar wrong? they dont keep the julian calendar or gregorian. so as i said we cannot escape the clear evidence no matter what reasoning we would like to apply to avoid knowing which day the lord blessed and sanctified.
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It seems you totally avoided what i had pointed out. God blessed and sanctified the seventh day, and clearly indicated which day that was, and isreal continues to this day to acknowledge that day, as well as churches today as they believe chirst rose at sunrise the first day of the week, which clearly indicates which day is the sabbath and which day is the first day of the week,the only way to avoid knowing that the sabbath is sunset friday to sunset saturday is to believe that the jews have not kept it since
the time of moses. The modern churches also believe in the rise of christ on the first day of the week ,which they know to this day to be sunday the day after the sabbath, although calendars change , the hebrew calendar has not ,and they continue to this day from the time of moses and have kept it,this debunks the myth that we dont know which day it is ,although the word saturday is not used in correlation with sabbath ,we do know which day the sabbath is,becuase the jews have kept it from sunset friday to sunset saturday , what can anyone say to this? is the hebrew calendar wrong? they dont keep the julian calendar or gregorian. so as i said we cannot escape the clear evidence no matter what reasoning we would like to apply to avoid knowing which day the lord blessed and sanctified.
First of all let's remember that the modern churches believe all kinds of things and many of those beliefs conflict with each other.
And again you're making assumptions which are not in the scripture. The text says: Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. Which came first the manna or the Sabbath? The Sabbath came first after six days of work and manna came later. The giving of the manna revolved around the Sabbath, the Sabbath did not revolve around the giving of manna.
The Jews clearly had the Bible all mixed up in their minds. Christ spent much of his sermons trying to correct their misconception of the scripture.
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First of all let's remember that the modern churches believe all kinds of things and many of those beliefs conflict with each other.
And again you're making assumptions which are not in the scripture. The text says: Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. Which came first the manna or the Sabbath? The Sabbath came first after six days of work and manna came later. The giving of the manna revolved around the Sabbath, the Sabbath did not revolve around the giving of manna.
The Jews clearly had the Bible all mixed up in their minds. Christ spent much of his sermons trying to correct their misconception of the scripture.
All I can say is I told you so!
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All I can say is I told you so!
I know but it's so frustrating the God mentions nothing about a calendar as he did in leviticus 23. They say you must obey the 10 Commandments and they are very clear. It seems to me so much like the Pharisees where they distorted the Sabbath for their own purposes. Six days of labor in the seventh day of rest, so complicated. ;)
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First of all let's remember that the modern churches believe all kinds of things and many of those beliefs conflict with each other.
And again you're making assumptions which are not in the scripture. The text says: Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. Which came first the manna or the Sabbath? The Sabbath came first after six days of work and manna came later. The giving of the manna revolved around the Sabbath, the Sabbath did not revolve around the giving of manna.
The Jews clearly had the Bible all mixed up in their minds. Christ spent much of his sermons trying to correct their misconception of the scripture.
exactly the extra mana was given the day before the sabbath,because the next day the sabbath day there would be no mana,why? because that day was the day of rest and no mana was going to be there. The day did not change from week to week nor was it individually based on which day each person chose, it was a certain day, the seventh day,and that day has been known and kept since that time. GOD did not give a command to enter into his rest and not give a way to know which day it is . zant there is no way of saying that the seventh day has not been kept by isreal to this day from friday sunset to saturday sunset . If i understand correctly what your trying to imply is the day of GODs seventh day rest is which ever day you decide to rest ,and that would make it YOUR rest no HIS rest ,and in hebrews it is pointed out clearly hebrews 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) " it wasnt their rest they were entering into or their decision to pick a day of rest ,it was GOD's rest and they because of unbelief could not enter into it. is it a certain day ,or just any day a man chooses?hebrews4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day." which of course he did not ,nor has GOD . The way i understand what your trying to say is ,GOD blesses and sanctifies any day that we choose to rest on,not his rest ,and so no one really ever knew which day the sabbath was and the jews kept any day of the week. The fact is isreal was told which day to keep as the seventh day,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath so they knew exactly which day it was,and has been ever since there is no way to deny that,except ignore the reality of it.
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I know but it's so frustrating the God mentions nothing about a calendar as he did in leviticus 23. They say you must obey the 10 Commandments and they are very clear. It seems to me so much like the Pharisees where they distorted the Sabbath for their own purposes. Six days of labor in the seventh day of rest, so complicated. ;)
GOD mentions a calendar in leviticus 23, and so with a calendar in place which isreal was aware of and have kept since that time,indicates they knew exactly which days where holy days including the weekly sabbath since that time. that was a bit of contradiction saying GOD mentions nothing about a calendar but mentions months and days which is indication of knowledge of a calendar.
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exactly the extra mana was given the day before the sabbath,because the next day the sabbath day there would be no mana,why? because that day was the day of rest and no mana was going to be there. The day did not change from week to week nor was it individually based on which day each person chose, it was a certain day, the seventh day,and that day has been known and kept since that time. GOD did not give a command to enter into his rest and not give a way to know which day it is . zant there is no way of saying that the seventh day has not been kept by isreal to this day from friday sunset to saturday sunset . If i understand correctly what your trying to imply is the day of GODs seventh day rest is which ever day you decide to rest ,and that would make it YOUR rest no HIS rest ,and in hebrews it is pointed out clearly hebrews 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) " it wasnt their rest they were entering into or their decision to pick a day of rest ,it was GOD's rest and they because of unbelief could not enter into it. is it a certain day ,or just any day a man chooses?hebrews4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day." which of course he did not ,nor has GOD . The way i understand what your trying to say is ,GOD blesses and sanctifies any day that we choose to rest on,not his rest ,and so no one really ever knew which day the sabbath was and the jews kept any day of the week. The fact is isreal was told which day to keep as the seventh day,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath so they knew exactly which day it was,and has been ever since there is no way to deny that,except ignore the reality of it.
Again the calendar had nothing to do in determining the day of the Sabbath. Nowhere in the scripture does it say it has. What does the 10 Commandments say in your Bible?
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GOD mentions a calendar in leviticus 23, and so with a calendar in place which isreal was aware of and have kept since that time,indicates they knew exactly which days where holy days including the weekly sabbath since that time. that was a bit of contradiction saying GOD mentions nothing about a calendar but mentions months and days which is indication of knowledge of a calendar.
There's no calendar that says anything about when the seventh day is and when the six days a worker are. Would they be using a calendar written by the Egyptians?
Please read Deuteronomy 5:13-14.
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Again the calendar had nothing to do in determining the day of the Sabbath. Nowhere in the scripture does it say it has. What does the 10 Commandments say in your Bible?
i did not say the calendar had anything to do with determining the day,i didn't say that,GOD determined the day,and it falls on a certain day which happens to be what we know to be sunset friday to sunset saturday,GOD set the day and this is why no mana was found on that day. what part of what im saying are you missing?
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There's no calendar that says anything about when the seventh day is and when the six days a worker are. Would they be using a calendar written by the Egyptians?
Please read Deuteronomy 5:13-14.
the hebrew calendar is in the old testament the lord mentions it in leviticus 23, 23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
The Sabbath
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first MONTH at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.’” did you see it mentions the 14th day of the first MONTH,those are calendar days , which means there must be a calendar for months to be known. this is not the egyptians saying this,it is GOD telling of months in which sabbaths were to be kept. The weekly sabbath being a holy convocation a day you shall do no work on because it is the sabbath of the lord ,if it were not a certain day ,how would they know which day to assemble? so there must have been a certain day which they have kept since that time.
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the hebrew calendar is in the old testament the lord mentions it in leviticus 23, 23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
The Sabbath
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first MONTH at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.’” did you see it mentions the 14th day of the first MONTH,those are calendar days , which means there must be a calendar for months to be known. this is not the egyptians saying this,it is GOD telling of months in which sabbaths were to be kept. The weekly sabbath being a holy convocation a day you shall do no work on because it is the sabbath of the lord ,if it were not a certain day ,how would they know which day to assemble? so there must have been a certain day which they have kept since that time.
Vs 3 is not attached to any calendar, in verse 4 God starts off with appointing times. Verse three is nothing more than restating Deuteronomy 5:13-14.
i did not say the calendar had anything to do with determining the day,i didn't say that,GOD determined the day,and it falls on a certain day which happens to be what we know to be sunset friday to sunset saturday,GOD set the day and this is why no mana was found on that day. what part of what im saying are you missing?
So the first quote you say the calendar did have something to do with it but now you say the calendar doesn't have something to do.
Man sets the day to start his work week and God tells him what to do on the seventh day.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
The Scriptures say that you work six days and on the seventh day is the Sabbath, there is nothing in the Bible specifies when your first day at work begins. The Pharisees continued to add to the requirements of the Sabbath to the point where they accused Christ of violating the Sabbath. But Christ obviously did not violate God's commandment He only violated the unbiblical requirements put on the Sabbath by the Pharisees, as in the requirements you add on here.
In the same manner many of the Christian churches add on to the requirements of salvation. In fact the seven day Adventist are doing exactly that with their interpretation of these Scriptures.
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Vs 3 is not attached to any calendar, in verse 4 God starts off with appointing times. Verse three is nothing more than restating Deuteronomy 5:13-14.
So the first quote you say the calendar did have something to do with it but now you say the calendar doesn't have something to do.
Man sets the day to start his work week and God tells him what to do on the seventh day.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
The Scriptures say that you work six days and on the seventh day is the Sabbath, there is nothing in the Bible specifies when your first day at work begins. The Pharisees continued to add to the requirements of the Sabbath to the point where they accused Christ of violating the Sabbath. But Christ obviously did not violate God's commandment He only violated the unbiblical requirements put on the Sabbath by the Pharisees, as in the requirements you add on here.
In the same manner many of the Christian churches add on to the requirements of salvation. In fact the seven day Adventist are doing exactly that with their interpretation of these Scriptures.
zant see if you can follow this perhaps this will make clarification . leviticus 23 verse 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. " ok so we see there is a month the lord mentions, and days of that month, that he also mentions this is a calender . which means if someone asked you which month is the passover in you would answer the first month, and if someone were to ask you which month we are currently in where would you go to find that answer? a calender ,because there is a calendar vs three mentions the seventh day,and GOD had already shown isreal which day that was, and had kept it and still do, the seventh day just happens to fall at sunset on friday until sunset on saturday. your logic is isreal has never known which day the sabbath was even though GOD commanded them to keep it ,they never could because GOD never gave them a way of knowing. so your view is GOD told them to obey but never told them which day it was so they couldn't .which is not at all what is shown in leviticus 23. does that clear it up for you?
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zant see if you can follow this perhaps this will make clarification . leviticus 23 verse 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. " ok so we see there is a month the lord mentions, and days of that month, that he also mentions this is a calender . which means if someone asked you which month is the passover in you would answer the first month, and if someone were to ask you which month we are currently in where would you go to find that answer? a calender ,because there is a calendar vs three mentions the seventh day,and GOD had already shown isreal which day that was, and had kept it and still do, the seventh day just happens to fall at sunset on friday until sunset on saturday. your logic is isreal has never known which day the sabbath was even though GOD commanded them to keep it ,they never could because GOD never gave them a way of knowing. so your view is GOD told them to obey but never told them which day it was so they couldn't .which is not at all what is shown in leviticus 23. does that clear it up for you?
The Jewish calendar is a lunisolar calendar, or fixed lunar year, based on twelve lunar months of twenty-nine or thirty days, with an intercalary lunar month added seven times every nineteen years (once every two to three years) to synchronize the twelve lunar cycles with the slightly longer solar year. Each Jewish lunar month starts with the new moon. Although originally the new lunar crescent had to be observed and certified by witnesses, the moment of the new moon is now approximated arithmetically. The fourteenth day of the first month could fall on a different day of the week every year.
The lunisolar calendar has nothing to do with the work days + rest day, they are only numberred 1 through 7.
I hope that helps.
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The Jewish calendar is a lunisolar calendar, or fixed lunar year, based on twelve lunar months of twenty-nine or thirty days, with an intercalary lunar month added seven times every nineteen years (once every two to three years) to synchronize the twelve lunar cycles with the slightly longer solar year. Each Jewish lunar month starts with the new moon. Although originally the new lunar crescent had to be observed and certified by witnesses, the moment of the new moon is now approximated arithmetically. The fourteenth day of the first month could fall on a different day of the week every year.
The lunisolar calendar has nothing to do with the work days + rest day, they are only numberred 1 through 7.
I hope that helps.
yes,so we agree there is a calendar,the only thing that we have to establish is there were 6 work days and the seventh day a holy convocation which GOD showed isreal which day that was and have kept since they were shown and is what we know today to be sunset friday to sunset saturday. if i understand you correctly though you don't accept that and you believe that we have never had any way of knowing which day it was that GOD commanded us to keep and have never known. is that correct?
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There are no days on the Hebrew calender for the days of the week they use our (man made) calendar.
(http://patriciahysell.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/07-hebrew-calendar.png?w=720)
How do you know when the sabbath is? It is explained in the bible.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest.
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There are no days on the Hebrew calender for the days of the week they use our (man made) calendar.
(http://patriciahysell.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/07-hebrew-calendar.png?w=720)
How do you know when the sabbath is? It is explained in the bible.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest.
Actually every decade or two they throw in a thirteenth month to make up fo leap year.
There is nothing in Scripture that says what day the first day of the week falls on. The day Christ rose just happen to be the first day of the week and had nothing to do with the Hebrew calender.
The only thing that we have to establish is there were 6 work days and the seventh day a holy convocation which GOD showed isreal which day that was and have kept since they were shown and is what we know today to be sunset friday to sunset saturday.
Show me where GOD showed isreal which day.
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r.
There is nothing in Scripture that says what day the first day of the week falls on. The day Christ rose just happen to be the first day of the week and had nothing to do with the Hebrew calender.
Show me where GOD showed isreal which day.
This is where the SDA usualy go with that question but as you see in verses 15 and 17 the day is set only by the work week.
Exodus 31:13-17
13 "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths ; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death ; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD ; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.' 17 "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever ; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."
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There are no days on the Hebrew calender for the days of the week they use our (man made) calendar.
(http://patriciahysell.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/07-hebrew-calendar.png?w=720)
How do you know when the sabbath is? It is explained in the bible.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest.
so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?
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Actually every decade or two they throw in a thirteenth month to make up fo leap year.
There is nothing in Scripture that says what day the first day of the week falls on. The day Christ rose just happen to be the first day of the week and had nothing to do with the Hebrew calender.
Show me where GOD showed isreal which day.
If christ rose on the first day of the week,that means the day preceding it was the sabbath,and that means that the sabbath would occur after the next 6 days of work,which will not change and has not change ,sunset friday to sunset saturday. its just common sense.
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so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?
That's ridiculous nobody said that it all, they work six days and the seventh day they rested, that's what God instructed him to do.
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If christ rose on the first day of the week,that means the day preceding it was the sabbath,and that means that the sabbath would occur after the next 6 days of work,which will not change and has not change ,sunset friday to sunset saturday. its just common sense.
Excuse me for butting in here Philer but can you please show me in the Bible where it says the Sabbath is from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
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so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?
Interesting question could this be the answer?
Lamentations 2:6 And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth; He has destroyed His appointed meeting place. The LORD has caused to be forgotten The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion, And He has despised king and priest In the indignation of His anger.
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Excuse me for butting in here Philer but can you please show me in the Bible where it says the Sabbath is from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
it says the seventh day is the day of rest which happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday ,which isreal has kept since they were shown ,or do you disagree ?
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it says the seventh day is the day of rest which happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday ,which isreal has kept since they were shown ,or do you disagree ?
As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.
That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.
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As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.
That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.
do you have anything to support they did not keep the sabbath on the same day since they were shown it by GOD? or is it speculation that because they had a different calendar that they forgot which was the last sabbath they kept and what day the next sabbath would fall on? are you suggesting that isrealites changed the sabbath day to a different day? i sincerely think that would not be likely ,they may have accepted the calendar change,but their holy days including the weekly sabbath would still be kept according to the hebrew calendar but would fall on different days of the babylonian calendar much like today with the gregorian calendar, the calendar may be different but the weekly sabbath would be easily maintained based on the 6 days of work and seventh day of rest. some have tried to suggest the same idea before but its simply not true.
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As Macuser pointed out this is not exactly true. It is true that he is Israelis continue to worship on the seventh day. But that does not mean that they have kept the sequence in order as it was when it was given to them in the desert. Not only do you have the verse that Macuser posted but there's also the fact that while in captivity in Babylon adopted the Babylonian weekly calendar which they still use today. They did this for convenience because the Babylonians had a seven-day calendar and they use names for their days not numbers. Saturday was named after the planet Saturn and was also a day of rest for the Babylonians, they called it Shabattum meaning the day of evil or the unlucky day. And it was a day they did no work so it fit real well with the Jewish 7 day Sabbath.
Sunday=sun, monday=moon, tuesday=mars, wednesday=merury, thursday=jupiter, friday=venus, saturday=saturn.
That being said the Jews still obey the commandment to keep the Sabbath, which states for six days you shall work in the seventh day you will rest.
We can also go to the new testament for validation that the sabbath day was correct. We have christ to give us that validation,being the lord of the sabbath ,would know what day it was. He kept the weekly sabbath, he in no wise instructed them they were keeping the wrong day , otherwise they would have questioned why he was keeping the wrong day,and he would have also instructed them they had forgotten or mistakenly kept the wrong day. so i think its quite clear that they had not forgotten or the babylonian captivity had caused them to forget or not know.
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do you have anything to support they did not keep the sabbath on the same day since they were shown it by GOD? or is it speculation that because they had a different calendar that they forgot which was the last sabbath they kept and what day the next sabbath would fall on? are you suggesting that isrealites changed the sabbath day to a different day? i sincerely think that would not be likely ,they may have accepted the calendar change,but their holy days including the weekly sabbath would still be kept according to the hebrew calendar but would fall on different days of the babylonian calendar much like today with the gregorian calendar, the calendar may be different but the weekly sabbath would be easily maintained based on the 6 days of work and seventh day of rest. some have tried to suggest the same idea before but its simply not true.
The Hebrew calendar is not a weekly calendar, and you might what to ask that question to the Prophet Jeremiah who wrote: And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth; He has destroyed His appointed meeting place. The LORD has caused to be forgotten The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion, And He has despised king and priest In the indignation of His anger.
Is interesting in your attack on the Bible you continually refer to the Babylonian lunar calendar as part of your evidence.
Israel was by no means good about keeping the Sabbath.
isaiah 1:12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts ? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies - I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean ; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight . Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good ; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.
Even in the wilderness.
Ezekiel 20:10 "So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12 "Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live ; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. 14 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands, 16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols. 17 "Yet My eye spared them rather than destroying them, and I did not cause their annihilation in the wilderness. 18 "I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God ; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. 20 'Sanctify My sabbaths ; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'
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We can also go to the new testament for validation that the sabbath day was correct. We have christ to give us that validation,being the lord of the sabbath ,would know what day it was. He kept the weekly sabbath, he in no wise instructed them they were keeping the wrong day , otherwise they would have questioned why he was keeping the wrong day,and he would have also instructed them they had forgotten or mistakenly kept the wrong day. so i think its quite clear that they had not forgotten or the babylonian captivity had caused them to forget or not know.
I am going to type real slow maybe this way you understand what I'm saying. The Jews were not violating the Sabbath day because they worked six days and rested on the seventh. You are the one that is putting in Friday and Saturday into this equation it does not exist in the Bible!
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The Hebrew calendar is not a weekly calendar, and you might what to ask that question to the Prophet Jeremiah who wrote: And He has violently treated His tabernacle like a garden booth; He has destroyed His appointed meeting place. The LORD has caused to be forgotten The appointed feast and sabbath in Zion, And He has despised king and priest In the indignation of His anger.
Is interesting in your attack on the Bible you continually refer to the Babylonian lunar calendar as part of your evidence.
Israel was by no means good about keeping the Sabbath.
isaiah 1:12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts ? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies - I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean ; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight . Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good ; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.
Even in the wilderness.
Ezekiel 20:10 "So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12 "Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live ; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. 14 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands, 16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols. 17 "Yet My eye spared them rather than destroying them, and I did not cause their annihilation in the wilderness. 18 "I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God ; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. 20 'Sanctify My sabbaths ; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'
i can't believe what i am reading what your trying tosaybut common sense kicking in here again,there are days in the calendar,there are obviously atleast 7 days in that calendar. What you consistanly seem to be overlooking is there are 6 days of work and the seventh a day of rest,and it is irrelavent which calendar you use this will always remain to be true, counting backwards or forwards is childs play, there is no way to miss which day the sabbath is,no matter what day it fell on in the babylonian calender or any calendar for that matter, . I am supporting the bible i don't know why you think i am attacking it. I am not referring to the babylonian calender as evidence, or gregorian only the calendar found mentioned by GOD,which was not even the egyptian calendar. No you are correct they could not keep the sabbath perfectly ,in fact NO man can,but they did know which day it was. I'm glad you pointed to isaiah as a reference one of my favorite books and if you notice isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 58:14 Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride upon the heights of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it." that's a great promise regarding the sabbath. But quoting you fat when i asked "so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?" you answered "That's ridiculous nobody said that it all, they work six days and the seventh day they rested, that's what God instructed him to do. ",so you agree with me,so what is it then you are trying to say?
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I am going to type real slow maybe this way you understand what I'm saying. The Jews were not violating the Sabbath day because they worked six days and rested on the seventh. You are the one that is putting in Friday and Saturday into this equation it does not exist in the Bible!
i will type slow as well ,please read carefully what i am saying,agreed it doesn't say friday or saturday in the bible,we agree,and i never said it was,so we agree so you cannot continue to say im putting it in the bible,what i am saying is isreal has kept the sabbath on the seventh day as shown to them by GOD. That day happens to fall on friday sunset to saturday sunset,do you follow me,or in other words the sabbath day of rest also could fall on any other day of any given calendar but in the gregorian calendar we currently use it falls on sunset friday to sunset saturday, is this making it clearer,im not saying fridays in the bible,im saying the sabbath happens to fall on friday sunset,and if you scroll back through all my posts it is consistent with what i have said all along. no where did i say friday was in the bible where did you read that in my posts?
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i can't believe what i am reading what your trying tosaybut common sense kicking in here again,there are days in the calendar,there are obviously atleast 7 days in that calendar. What you consistanly seem to be overlooking is there are 6 days of work and the seventh a day of rest,and it is irrelavent which calendar you use this will always remain to be true, counting backwards or forwards is childs play, there is no way to miss which day the sabbath is,no matter what day it fell on in the babylonian calender or any calendar for that matter, . I am supporting the bible i don't know why you think i am attacking it. I am not referring to the babylonian calender as evidence, or gregorian only the calendar found mentioned by GOD,which was not even the egyptian calendar. No you are correct they could not keep the sabbath perfectly ,in fact NO man can,but they did know which day it was. I'm glad you pointed to isaiah as a reference one of my favorite books and if you notice isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 58:14 Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride upon the heights of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it." that's a great promise regarding the sabbath. But quoting you fat when i asked "so is it your assertion that the isrealites have not kept the sabbath on the seventh day since it was shown to them by GOD?" you answered "That's ridiculous nobody said that it all, they work six days and the seventh day they rested, that's what God instructed him to do. ",so you agree with me,so what is it then you are trying to say?
i will type slow as well ,please read carefully what i am saying,agreed it doesn't say friday or saturday in the bible,we agree,and i never said it was,so we agree so you cannot continue to say im putting it in the bible,what i am saying is isreal has kept the sabbath on the seventh day as shown to them by GOD. That day happens to fall on friday sunset to saturday sunset,do you follow me,or in other words the sabbath day of rest also could fall on any other day of any given calendar but in the gregorian calendar we currently use it falls on sunset friday to sunset saturday, is this making it clearer,im not saying fridays in the bible,im saying the sabbath happens to fall on friday sunset,and if you scroll back through all my posts it is consistent with what i have said all along. no where did i say friday was in the bible where did you read that in my posts?
We will try it again the Bible does not connect the Sabbath with specific days of the week or month. The Bible ties the Sabbath with a period of work. Observing the sabbath does not mean observing the calendar.
So we both agree that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agree that the Bible says the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agreed that the first six days are days of work. We agreed this is what the Bible says.
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest,
We disagree on your authority to add to the Scriptures under the guise of tradition. As did the Pharisees, the church of Rome, Jehovah's Witnesses, the seven day Adventist, Church of Latter Day Saints, the international Church of Christ and many others have done.
2 timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ;
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Phat,
I think you are right in Reply #4. ;) :)
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We will try it again the Bible does not connect the Sabbath with specific days of the week or month. The Bible ties the Sabbath with a period of work. Observing the sabbath does not mean observing the calendar.
So we both agree that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agree that the Bible says the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We agreed that the first six days are days of work. We agreed this is what the Bible says.
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest,
We disagree on your authority to add to the Scriptures under the guise of tradition. As did the Pharisees, the church of Rome, Jehovah's Witnesses, the seven day Adventist, Church of Latter Day Saints, the international Church of Christ and many others have done.
2 timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ;
im not sure how you assume i am adding to the scriptures a guise of tradition as you put it. GOD showed isreal which day the sabbath was,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath day,it was a specific day and that would be the same day after the next six days and so forth ,and that would never change,and never has to this day. this is not a tradition of men,this is what GOD showed man. which day is that day? do we know? yes we do it just happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday of the calendar we use today,it is not a day that will move or change,if we were to adopt a new calendar and replace saturday with some other name it would still be the same day with a different name,and after that next 6 days would be another sabbath. How do we know even during captivity they knew which day it was,how were they able to know after the captivity? The sons of zadok, many people are not familiar with them,they had never stopped keeping the sabbath,even during the captivity ,and taught isreal after the captivity the law ,including the sabbath. What i think you are trying to imply if i understand you correctly is ,the sabbath doesn't fall on a certain day is that correct? i will try it from that approach, if it does fall on a certain day which day is it fat?
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im not sure how you assume i am adding to the scriptures a guise of tradition as you put it. GOD showed isreal which day the sabbath was,mana was given in double portion the day before the sabbath day,it was a specific day and that would be the same day after the next six days and so forth ,and that would never change,and never has to this day. this is not a tradition of men,this is what GOD showed man. which day is that day? do we know? yes we do it just happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday of the calendar we use today,it is not a day that will move or change,if we were to adopt a new calendar and replace saturday with some other name it would still be the same day with a different name,and after that next 6 days would be another sabbath. How do we know even during captivity they knew which day it was,how were they able to know after the captivity? The sons of zadok, many people are not familiar with them,they had never stopped keeping the sabbath,even during the captivity ,and taught isreal after the captivity the law ,including the sabbath. What i think you are trying to imply if i understand you correctly is ,the sabbath doesn't fall on a certain day is that correct? i will try it from that approach, if it does fall on a certain day which day is it fat?
According to your logic, since God quit giving out double portions mana there must be no more sabbath.
But according to the Bible, For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest.
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
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According to your logic, since God quit giving out double portions mana there must be no more sabbath.
But according to the Bible, For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest.
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
no fat your misreading what i've said,because there were double portions the day before the sabbath the next day would be the sabbath,and after the next 6 days would be another,and so forth without end,and would remain. how did you get that i said there would be NO more sabbaths?. so im asking again. Do you think the sabbath falls on a certain day? and if so which day is it?
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no fat your misreading what i've said,because there were double portions the day before the sabbath the next day would be the sabbath,and after the next 6 days would be another,and so forth without end,and would remain. how did you get that i said there would be NO more sabbaths?.(Because you insinuate that first came manna and then came the Sabbath) so im asking again. Do you think the sabbath falls on a certain day?(And I am answering that question for the 50th time, yes it comes on the seventh day) and if so which day is it? (As prescribed in the Bible: For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest)
The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.
I'll give you the answers to your next four post to save time.
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
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The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.
Excellent point! Man chose the days of the Sabbath.
BB
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The Sabbath came first based on days of work. The double portion did not define the Sabbath, the Sabbath defined the double portion.
I'll give you the answers to your next four post to save time.
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest
your still not answering the question,perhaps im not being specific enough for you,which day does the sabbath fall on our current calendar? is that a clearer way to ask? as far as you think im insinuating about the mana and the sabbath, exodus 16:22 "And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. " ok so we see no insinuation its true twice as much mana on the sixth day,that means the seventh day was next and that is the sabbath,no insinuation it came before the sabbath. did you never read that?
what your doing is going back to when the sabbath began and applying the mana to that which i was not referring to,but if you wish to refer to when the sabbath actually began,yes GOD worked 6 days and rested and i agree predates the mana of exodus by hundreds of years. why you took what i said and went that direction with it is beyond me lol
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Excellent point! Man chose the days of the Sabbath.
BB
if you read it correctly GOD told isreal which day the sabbath would be,because he showed them by the double portion which was the day before the sabbath man did not tell GOD which day he rested,he rested on the seventh day,man did not tell GOD to rest. where did you get that idea?
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if you read it correctly GOD told isreal which day the sabbath would be,because he showed them by the double portion which was the day before the sabbath man did not tell GOD which day he rested,he rested on the seventh day,man did not tell GOD to rest. where did you get that idea?
The double portion came after the sabbath. 2+2 in not 22
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The double portion came after the sabbath. 2+2 in not 22
bible buff scripture states .exodus 16:22 "And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread," its clear the day before the seventh day which was the sabbath they gathered twice as much double portion,what are you trying to say?
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bible buff scripture states .exodus 16:22 "And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread," its clear the day before the seventh day which was the sabbath they gathered twice as much double portion,what are you trying to say?
29 "See, the LORD has given you the sabbath ; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place ; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."
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FYI Israel did not keep the Sabbath, even before their captivity they turned away from it.
II Kings 17
16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal. 17 Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him. 18 So the LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them from His sight ; none was left except the tribe of Judah. 19 Also Judah did not keep the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the customs which Israel had introduced. 20 The LORD rejected all the descendants of Israel and afflicted them and gave them into the hand of plunderers, until He had cast them out of His sight. 21 When He had torn Israel from the house of David, they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king. Then Jeroboam drove Israel away from following the LORD and made them commit a great sin. 22 The sons of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did ; they did not depart from them 23 until the LORD removed Israel from His sight, as He spoke through all His servants the prophets. So Israel was carried away into exile from their own land to Assyria until this day.
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29 "See, the LORD has given you the sabbath ; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place ; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."
yes , He did give us the sabbath so that we may have a day of rest. Now if the idea that some believe that the sabbath is to be kept by their choice or on the day they choose, GOD would have asked each man which day he would like to rest on ,he did not,or he would not tell everyone on that day not to go out of their place,if it were individual decision as to which day they wanted the day of rest to be. some suggest it is a random uknown day that men decide. but as we can see GOD gave the mana to isreal,GOD set the seventh day,and has been kept by isreal ever since that time on that day. because a child can count it,and after the first sabbath shown to isreal,six work days would pass and another sabbath and another six work days and another sabbath and that would continue,no one unless they wanted to disobey GOD, Exodus 31:14
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." and with the death penalty hanging over their head,it was important to know which day that was, thankfully GOD did show them which day that was. because you never read the terminology , he did not keep a sabbath within seven days ,or a sabbath occurring randomly on days others did not keep it that someone else decided to keep.
so based on some peoples assertion it was a random day chosen by men ,we would have people wondering did someone rest atleast once during the seven day period and keep a sabbath? and if they did based on that assertion it would be a holy convocation,which meant everyone would have to keep the convocation. and if everyone had their own individual sabbath ,that could fall on every day of the week making every day a holy convocation, and we know that just is not what happened. no matter how hard some try to reason out of it, the facts are just too clear, GOD set a day to be holy,it is his day not ours, and it is a certain day. now some may not agree with this but as was stated about the isrealites because of unbelief they were not allowed to enter into his rest ,his meaning GOD's not mans ,and there is the distinguishing factor, the isrealites could rest ,but they were not accepted ,because of unbelief, but it would be their rest not GOD's rest , so it is up to GOD then not man. which disproves any suggestion the sabbath was whatever or whenever man decided or thought he wanted it to be. and even on the sabbath you are instructed to do certain things,not what you want to do,if it were your day, then you could decide,but it isn't and never will be. The sabbath will not be moved or eliminated by what men think , it also being GOD's holy day , has never been left to men to decide what they want to do with the sabbath and have the expectation that GOD find it acceptable. i know that many disagree, but if you believe the sabbath is a random day based upon your decision,then say that,or if you believe it is a certain day then say that, but much of the conversation has been like a bad abbott and costello routine, "whos on first?" when asking which day the sabbath falls on the reply i have gotten,the seventh ,yeah but which day ,the seventh yeah but ..... when the answer is either they don't think there is a certain day the seventh day falls on,or they think its up to each individual to decide or are the jewish correct in keeping it sunset friday to sunset saturday . and ultimately we going back to a previous post regarding romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." so we do. we discuss,but not to anger nor to hate,nor falsely accuse,or belittle or degrade, or say someone said something they didn't ,or atleast that is what we SHOULD do. it's been an interesting discussion but ,where it becomes difficult is where someone reads what you say and then thinks you said something else , and so you have to explain again,and they misread that and making it more difficult to understand one another ,it has happened many times in my posts where someone has said i was saying something i did not say. but anyway it was a good topic initially unfortunately it did not move forward. thank you for the experience.
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FYI Israel did not keep the Sabbath, even before their captivity they turned away from it.
II Kings 17
16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal. 17 Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him. 18 So the LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them from His sight ; none was left except the tribe of Judah. 19 Also Judah did not keep the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the customs which Israel had introduced. 20 The LORD rejected all the descendants of Israel and afflicted them and gave them into the hand of plunderers, until He had cast them out of His sight. 21 When He had torn Israel from the house of David, they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king. Then Jeroboam drove Israel away from following the LORD and made them commit a great sin. 22 The sons of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did ; they did not depart from them 23 until the LORD removed Israel from His sight, as He spoke through all His servants the prophets. So Israel was carried away into exile from their own land to Assyria until this day.
then how does this fit what your saying? GOD answering elias romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." they may not have kept it,for example as during the captivity or before,but the knowledge of the law of GOD remained and there was always someone to show them , and the sabbath remained the same day. I don't disagree most of isreal failed to keep the law,but the law remained , the law doesn't go away, as the scripture pointed out there is always someone that is doing the right thing,though most are not ,the same remains true to this day, as christ said" Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."
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yes , He did give us the sabbath so that we may have a day of rest. Now if the idea that some believe that the sabbath is to be kept by their choice or on the day they choose, GOD would have asked each man which day he would like to rest on ,he did not,or he would not tell everyone on that day not to go out of their place,if it were individual decision as to which day they wanted the day of rest to be. some suggest it is a random uknown day that men decide. but as we can see GOD gave the mana to isreal,GOD set the seventh day,and has been kept by isreal ever since that time on that day. because a child can count it,and after the first sabbath shown to isreal,six work days would pass and another sabbath and another six work days and another sabbath and that would continue,no one unless they wanted to disobey GOD,
The point you miss is they were traveling under one command. They all stopped the same day to rest just as later they all fought under one commander, even on the Sabbath. (that is Scripture)
As far as discussion goes and who believes what on this board may I remind you of the title of this board, "Bible Discussion." You will find that people here tend to fall back on the Bible, and 2 timothy 3:16 is commonly used as sort of a hint to put up or shut up.
Important thing about Romans 14 is that it teaches us not to judge someone because they eat different food then you eat or that they celebrate the Sabbath on a different day than you do. "He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord", that is not abstract it is very clear. If you notice you don't see denominations like the Baptist, telling the seven day Adventist that they worship on the wrong day, it is the other way around. A Baptist preacher will tell you that you should rest one day out of seven and you should worship all seven days.
If you feel that God has told you that you should worship on Saturday then so be it. But the claim that the Bible says that everyone should worship on Saturday is simply not true.
By the way when you answerred Moss who quoted 2 Kings 17, you answered him with Romans 11:4 which was misleading. The Romans 11 quote was actually from 1 kings 19 and had nothing to do with 2 Kings 17 that was a whole different time period.
1 kings 19:18 "Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."
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The point you miss is they were traveling under one command. They all stopped the same day to rest just as later they all fought under one commander, even on the Sabbath. (that is Scripture)
As far as discussion goes and who believes what on this board may I remind you of the title of this board, "Bible Discussion." You will find that people here tend to fall back on the Bible, and 2 timothy 3:16 is commonly used as sort of a hint to put up or shut up.
Important thing about Romans 14 is that it teaches us not to judge someone because they eat different food then you eat or that they celebrate the Sabbath on a different day than you do. "He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord", that is not abstract it is very clear. If you notice you don't see denominations like the Baptist, telling the seven day Adventist that they worship on the wrong day, it is the other way around. A Baptist preacher will tell you that you should rest one day out of seven and you should worship all seven days.
If you feel that God has told you that you should worship on Saturday then so be it. But the claim that the Bible says that everyone should worship on Saturday is simply not true.
By the way when you answerred Moss who quoted 2 Kings 17, you answered him with Romans 11:4 which was misleading. The Romans 11 quote was actually from 1 kings 19 and had nothing to do with 2 Kings 17 that was a whole different time period.
1 kings 19:18 "Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."
i will ask then you the same question ,and hopefully you will respond without the similar vague answer,what day of our week does the sabbath fall on ? As far as the quote i used ,the point of it is,there is always and has always been someone who kept the sabbath,you will also notice even when isreal had gone astray ,and even if only a few. The fact of the whole matter is the sabbath was kept by christ,and he knew exactly which day it was, and was not accused of not keeping it,if anything he was accused of doing things on the sabbath which the pharisees had felt was breaking the sabbath. so as you said i have put up,but no one even addressed it because there is noone willing to say that jesus didn't know which day the sabbath was . Many denominations are just branches broken away from the catholic church, of course denominations like the seventh days are going to have conflict in doctrine ,but no matter who you are ,what denomination , if you say jesus didn't keep the sabbath and know which day it was, then you don't believe he was who he said he was. if you believe he was christ and did keep it ,then your saying we know which day the sabbath is,what choice do you have?.
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i will ask then you the same question ,and hopefully you will respond without the similar vague answer,what day of our week does the sabbath fall on ? As far as the quote i used ,the point of it is,there is always and has always been someone who kept the sabbath,you will also notice even when isreal had gone astray ,and even if only a few. The fact of the whole matter is the sabbath was kept by christ,and he knew exactly which day it was, and was not accused of not keeping it,if anything he was accused of doing things on the sabbath which the pharisees had felt was breaking the sabbath. so as you said i have put up,but no one even addressed it because there is noone willing to say that jesus didn't know which day the sabbath was . Many denominations are just branches broken away from the catholic church, of course denominations like the seventh days are going to have conflict in doctrine ,but no matter who you are ,what denomination , if you say jesus didn't keep the sabbath and know which day it was, then you don't believe he was who he said he was. if you believe he was christ and did keep it ,then your saying we know which day the sabbath is,what choice do you have?.
interesting that you say that the people that kept the sabbath over the centuries are the ones that accused Christ of not keeping it were they wrong or were they right? the scripture is very specific on the day of the sabbath, it says it is the seventh day, do you disagree with that? do you believe the bible or do you not, if not the seventh day then what day? if you believe it what does it say? who are you to judge the servant of another? to his own master he stands or falls ; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. he who observes the day, observes it for the Lord.
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then how does this fit what your saying? GOD answering elias romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." they may not have kept it,for example as during the captivity or before,but the knowledge of the law of GOD remained and there was always someone to show them , and the sabbath remained the same day. I don't disagree most of isreal failed to keep the law,but the law remained , the law doesn't go away, as the scripture pointed out there is always someone that is doing the right thing,though most are not ,the same remains true to this day, as christ said" Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."
They indeed kept a copy of the written law but there is no indication anyone scriptures that somebody was assigned to keep the sabbath. As pointed out to you by BB your scripture reference has nothing to do with question. What day does the Bible say the Sabbath falls on???????
2 tim 3:16
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interesting that you say that the people that kept the sabbath over the centuries are the ones that accused Christ of not keeping it were they wrong or were they right? the scripture is very specific on the day of the sabbath, it says it is the seventh day, do you disagree with that? do you believe the bible or do you not, if not the seventh day then what day? if you believe it what does it say? who are you to judge the servant of another? to his own master he stands or falls ; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. he who observes the day, observes it for the Lord.
christ was accused of doing things on the sabbath that was not lawful. No one ever accused him of not keeping the sabbath day itself as luke states Luke 4:16: “as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day” but there was never an arguement about if he kept the sabbath or which day was the sabbath. so of course i believe the bible. so yes it is the seventh day which happens to fall on sunset friday to sunset saturday. even the scriptures agree matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
we know what day the first day of the week was,and we know then the sabbath came before it. as far as judging,i have not judged anyone ,we are trying to establish if the sabbath is a certain day or it is a random day chosen by men,or some other option , there is no judgement in question here. what i am asking is what day of the week is the sabbath in your view,do you think it to be whenever you decide it is,or is it a day GOD has set aside for us to keep or something else, but the question of right or wrong ,wasn't part of this conversation.
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They indeed kept a copy of the written law but there is no indication anyone scriptures that somebody was assigned to keep the sabbath. As pointed out to you by BB your scripture reference has nothing to do with question. What day does the Bible say the Sabbath falls on???????
2 tim 3:16
unfortunately that is not entirely accurate,Numbers 25:13,Phineas the son of Elazar the son of Ahron the Kohen..Behold I give to him my covenant of Peace, and is/will be his and his progeny after him (a) covenant of everlasting priesthood in turn of his zealousness for of his God, and he atoned for the sons of Israel
—Numbers 25:13
Torah commentators record that Phineas sinned due to his not availing his servitude of Torah instruction to the masses at the time leading up to the Battle of Gibeah. In addition, he also failed to address the needs of relieving Jephthah of his vow. As consequence, the high priesthood was taken from him and given to the offspring of Ithamar, essentially Eli and his sons. Upon the sin of Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas, Elkanah prophecized the return of high priesthood to the sons of Elazar;
And I will erect myself a reliable priest (who acts) with my heart, and with my soul he will do, and I will build him a reliable household, and he will go before my Annointed all of days
—Book of Samuel 1 2:35
This prophecy of Elkanah ultimately happened in the era of King David when Zadok from the progeny of Eleazar was appointed as high priest.[2] The Metzudoth and Obadiah ben Jacob Sforno comment that the service of Zadok and his sons was in line with the will of God even at times when the actions of the general nation was not.[citation needed] The Midrash Rabba relates how Zadok and offspring where righteous in their personal actions and service to the Temple to the point that where Aaron and his sons present at the era of Zadok and sons, Zadok and sons would supersede them in quality (Koheleth Rabbah Chap. 1). Rashi comments that since Zadok functioned first as high priest in Solomon's Temple, as opposed to the tabernacle, which was mobile, and also busied himself with establishing the twenty-four priestly divisions, he merited that the preferred lineage of Eleazar be called by his name, "the sons of Zadok (as opposed to being titled the sons of Eleazar), and the entire concept of the twenty-four divisions be attributed to him (Rashi to Ezekiel 43:19).
as to your question which day does GOD say the sabbath falls on,the seventh day, and the isrealites were shown which day that was,not a uknown random day, it was a specific day shown to them by reason of mana collected on the sixth day in double portion,meaning that after that sabbath would be six days of work ,and then another sabbath . this is what the bible tells us, there is no indication or suggestion it was sparatic and random that no one knew which day it was,or that it was up to individual people to choose which day they wanted the sabbath to be,GOD chose it not isreal,they only knew when the sabbath was by the double portion given to them the day before that specific day . or do you not believe the bible?
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unfortunately that is not entirely accurate,Numbers 25:13,Phineas the son of Elazar the son of Ahron the Kohen..Behold I give to him my covenant of Peace, and is/will be his and his progeny after him (a) covenant of everlasting priesthood in turn of his zealousness for of his God, and he atoned for the sons of Israel
—Numbers 25:13
Torah commentators record that Phineas sinned due to his not availing his servitude of Torah instruction to the masses at the time leading up to the Battle of Gibeah. In addition, he also failed to address the needs of relieving Jephthah of his vow. As consequence, the high priesthood was taken from him and given to the offspring of Ithamar, essentially Eli and his sons. Upon the sin of Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas, Elkanah prophecized the return of high priesthood to the sons of Elazar;
And I will erect myself a reliable priest (who acts) with my heart, and with my soul he will do, and I will build him a reliable household, and he will go before my Annointed all of days
—Book of Samuel 1 2:35
This prophecy of Elkanah ultimately happened in the era of King David when Zadok from the progeny of Eleazar was appointed as high priest.[2] The Metzudoth and Obadiah ben Jacob Sforno comment that the service of Zadok and his sons was in line with the will of God even at times when the actions of the general nation was not.[citation needed] The Midrash Rabba relates how Zadok and offspring where righteous in their personal actions and service to the Temple to the point that where Aaron and his sons present at the era of Zadok and sons, Zadok and sons would supersede them in quality (Koheleth Rabbah Chap. 1). Rashi comments that since Zadok functioned first as high priest in Solomon's Temple, as opposed to the tabernacle, which was mobile, and also busied himself with establishing the twenty-four priestly divisions, he merited that the preferred lineage of Eleazar be called by his name, "the sons of Zadok (as opposed to being titled the sons of Eleazar), and the entire concept of the twenty-four divisions be attributed to him (Rashi to Ezekiel 43:19).
as to your question which day does GOD say the sabbath falls on,the seventh day, and the isrealites were shown which day that was,not a uknown random day, it was a specific day shown to them by reason of mana collected on the sixth day in double portion,meaning that after that sabbath would be six days of work ,and then another sabbath . this is what the bible tells us, there is no indication or suggestion it was sparatic and random that no one knew which day it was,or that it was up to individual people to choose which day they wanted the sabbath to be,GOD chose it not isreal,they only knew when the sabbath was by the double portion given to them the day before that specific day . or do you not believe the bible?
You should give credit to yor cut n paste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kohanim_sons_of_Tzadok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kohanim_sons_of_Tzadok)
And as your wikipedia article said [citation needed] after all Joseph Smith claimed to be a Zadok High Priest.
Now what day was the double portion given?
And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited ; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.
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You should give credit to yor cut n paste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kohanim_sons_of_Tzadok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kohanim_sons_of_Tzadok)
And as your wikipedia article said [citation needed] after all Joseph Smith claimed to be a Zadok High Priest.
Now what day was the double portion given?
And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited ; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.
yes yes indeed, credit to that site for saving me some typing.
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Excellent point! Man chose the days of the Sabbath.
BB
I am not an SDA and really have no dog in the fight, but you, Fat and Zant Law seemed to have missed the point that the Sabbath was created by God, not designated by the days men work...
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
You guys quote Ex 20 and say that it is only the seventh day after six days of work, but you are not quoting the entirety of the text...
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day? Interesting.
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I am not an SDA and really have no dog in the fight, but you, Fat and Zant Law seemed to have missed the point that the Sabbath was created by God, not designated by the days men work...
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
You guys quote Ex 20 and say that it is only the seventh day after six days of work, but you are not quoting the entirety of the text...
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day? Interesting.
You seem to not understand how God designated that day as Holy. That day was designated as the seventh day after six days of work. That is what the Scriptures say. That is the day that our Lord blessed. Not the third day after 2 days of work, not the seventh day on a man made calendar, not the ninth day after 8 days of work, but the 7th after 6 days of work.
What does your bible tell you about how to keep this day Holy? I mean does it tell you to attend some sort of service at your synagogue, or worship is some special way?
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Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. NAS
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You seem to not understand how God designated that day as Holy. That day was designated as the seventh day after six days of work. That is what the Scriptures say. That is the day that our Lord blessed. Not the third day after 2 days of work, not the seventh day on a man made calendar, not the ninth day after 8 days of work, but the 7th after 6 days of work.
What does your bible tell you about how to keep this day Holy? I mean does it tell you to attend some sort of service at your synagogue, or worship is some special way?
Read right over it didn't you?
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
There was at this time one man and one woman and NO man made calendar. In fact the man and woman had not been alive for 24 hours yet. The point being that God sanctifed and hallowed a particular day independant of a man made calendar. But if you insist, you may continue believing anything you wish to.
Actually, the bible does tell us how to keep the Sabbath holy...
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Notice that it is a Feast of the Lord? A day of rest and a holy convocation...
convocation:
H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
A public meeting, an assembly that is holy...
holy:
H6944
קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
A sacred or holy meeting or assembly.
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Read right over it didn't you?
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
There was at this time one man and one woman and NO man made calendar. In fact the man and woman had not been alive for 24 hours yet. The point being that God sanctifed and hallowed a particular day independant of a man made calendar. But if you insist, you may continue believing anything you wish to.
Actually, the bible does tell us how to keep the Sabbath holy...
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Notice that it is a Feast of the Lord? A day of rest and a holy convocation...
convocation:
H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
A public meeting, an assembly that is holy...
holy:
H6944
קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
A sacred or holy meeting or assembly.
I am glad that you agree that we should not base the sabbath on a man made calendar and that it does not say 7th day of the week but the after 6 days of work. God blessed the seventh day.
Good verses to prove my point.
Leviticus 23:3
Holman Christian Standard
"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord wherever you live.
Assemble your family at your table and break bread, pray, and immerse yourselves in His Word as Paul did with his friends. Acts 20:7
Now as we read farther we see that God did set some dates for specified Sabbaths.
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
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Other than Shabbat, the name of the seventh day of the week, the Jewish calendar doesn't have names for the days of the week. The days of the week are simply known as first day, second day, third day, etc.
1. Yom Rishon - יום ראשון (abbreviated יום א׳) = "first day" (starting at preceding sunset)
2. Yom Sheni - יום שני (abbr. יום ב׳) = "second day"
3. Yom Shlishi - יום שלישי (abbr. יום ג׳) = "third day"
4. Yom Reviʻi - יום רביעי (abbr. יום ד׳) = "fourth day"
5. Yom Chamishi - יום חמישי (abbr. יום ה׳) = "fifth day"
6. Yom Shishi - יום ששי (abbr. יום ו׳) = "sixth day"
7. Yom Shabbat - יום שבת (abbr. יום ש׳) or more usually שבת - Shabbat
It's almost biblical isn't it?
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Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. NAS
Read the whole chapter and you find the subject is judging a brother.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
The questions that were being addressed were...
1) Vegetarianism...
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
2) Fasting...
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
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Read the whole chapter and you find the subject is judging a brother.
That is exactly my point.
Let me play that again for you, Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Now you hold one day above another, good for you because so do I. You hold Saturday above the others and I hold the seventh day above the others. I hope your Saturday falls on the seventh day.
It's almost biblical isn't it?
Good point. Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)
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Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)
Did not know that.
That would start the next week early making the 7th day Friday. Unless of course you start your work week on tuesday, pre-1582, making the post-1582 sabbath on tuesday.
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Good point. Did you know that when we went from the Julian calendar in 1582 to the Gregorian calendar we lost a Wednesday? What does that do to the equation :)
Well I didn't know that because it isn’t true. What actually happened is that in October of 1582AD the first week went like this…
Sunday - September 30
Monday – October 1
Tuesday – October 2
Wednesday – October 3
Thursday – October 4
Friday – October 15
Saturday – October 16
Ten days were dropped from the year, but the weekly continuity was not disrupted. The problem is not the seven day week, but rather the inaccuracy of the Julian calendar. There was a great deal of debate over how to fix it…
“Thus, every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz., the abandonment of the seven-day week” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, p. 251, article “Lilius”).
“It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus, when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October. So in England, in 1752, Wednesday, 2 September, was followed by Thursday, 14 September” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 740, article “Chronology”).
So in this happy vein, I will ask you a did you know…
Did you know that this occurred again in 1752 in the month of September? The first week of September looked like this…
Sunday – August 30
Monday – August 31
Tuesday – September 1
Wednesday – September 2
Thursday – September 14
Friday - September 15
Saturday – September 16
Again, 12 days were dropped from the calendar, but the weekly cycle was not changed or interrupted.
“In spite of all of our dickerings with the calendar, it is patent that the human race never lost the septenary [seven-day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, through the ages, without a single lapse.”
Dr. Totten of New Haven, Connecticut—Professor of Astronomy, Yale University
(www.tagnet.org/llt/science.htm (http://www.tagnet.org/llt/science.htm))
“It is a strange fact that even today there is a great deal of confusion concerning the question of so-called ‘lost time.’ Alterations that have been made to the calendar in the past have left the impression that time has actually been lost. In point of fact, of course, these adjustments were made to bring the calendar into closer agreement with the natural [solar] year. Now, unfortunately, this supposed ‘lost time’ is still being used to throw doubt upon the unbroken cycle of the Seventh-day Sabbath that God inaugurated at the Creation. I am glad I can add the witness of my scientific training to the irrevocable nature of the weekly cycle.
“Having been time computer at Greenwich [England Observatory] for many years, I can testify that all our days are in God’s absolute control—relentlessly measured by the daily rotation of the earth on its axis. This daily period of rotation does not vary one-thousandth part of a second in thousands of years. Also, the year is a very definite number of days. Consequently, it can be said that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle” (Frank Jeffries, Statement [Dr. Jeffries was Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]).
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John,
So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)
From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"
I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
You really believe that man has the authority to bless and hallow a particular day? Interesting.
So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?
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John,
So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)
From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"
I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?
So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?
What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation? You are trying to argue technicalities attempting to save a lost position. I am not championing any calendar, you are creating false windmills to tilt at.
Of course you know it is sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening. That was established at creation...
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
and reaffirmed here...
Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Scripture shows that the Sabbath is the seventh day, it was sanctified (set apart) by God, not man. It begins at sunset and ends at sunset. I find it interesting, any time there is a discussion about the Ten Commandments, everyone thinks they are great and wonderful and should be done, all except for that fourth one. It is the one that most refuse to do.
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Not sure who this website represents, I stumbled on to it and the common sense instruction seemed most appropriate for Arctic and Antarctic conditions...
http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/when-does-the-bible-sabbath-begin-and-end.html (http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/when-does-the-bible-sabbath-begin-and-end.html)
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John,
So let me get this straight John, you believe that our present day calendar coincides with the Jewish Hebrew calendar posted by BB?
You seem to be fighting awful hard for this man-made calendar, and it does not at all coincide with biblical instruction. I'm sure you are aware that the Jewish Sabbath starts at night fall on Friday, as practiced by today's Jews. On our modern calendar the day starts at midnight that is the first discrepancy.
Now since the Sabbath starts on the sixth day at nightfall, we see a major problem. You claim that the calendar for the Sabbath is other than six days of work in the seventh day of rest, and is set by specific days and non-specific times and not at 0001 Hrs Saturday, this means that much of the world is left with no Sabbath for them to worship during the time near summer solstice. (circle of illumination)
From google search.
"Alaska has the longest day of the year in the U.S. No sunset for 82 days in summer. Alaska also has the longest night with no sunrise for 67 days in winter"
I'am sure the same holds for Antarctica. Now are you going to argue that we are talking about 24 hour days and not that used by the tradition of the Jews?
So is it sunset on Friday John, or 1201 AM Saturday?
So now, when do you worship and what annual days do you dedicate to God? Please use scripture to validate them.
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What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation? You are trying to argue technicalities attempting to save a lost position. I am not championing any calendar, you are creating false windmills to tilt at.
Of course you know it is sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening. That was established at creation...
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
and reaffirmed here...
Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Scripture shows that the Sabbath is the seventh day, it was sanctified (set apart) by God, not man. It begins at sunset and ends at sunset. I find it interesting, any time there is a discussion about the Ten Commandments, everyone thinks they are great and wonderful and should be done, all except for that fourth one. It is the one that most refuse to do.
So you are not going to set your Sabbath by the Gregorian calendar, and you agree that the Sabbath (the 7th day) starts at night fall on the 6th day. So John how do you handle no sunset for 82 days?
What is complicated about the fact that the Julian and the Gregorian calendars are different than the Hebrew calendar, yet they have in common a seven day weekly cycle that has remained unbroken since creation?
Why don't you show me your scripture for this John.
You say that I argue technicalities but that is exactly what you are doing, as did the Pharisees.
6 days of work and the 7th day of rest, it so simple.
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So now, when do you worship and what annual days do you dedicate to God? Please use scripture to validate them.
I worship on the seventh day after 6 days of work, it is a Holy day at my house. See above post for the numerous scriptures.
Annual days are not part of this thread, the Scriptures do not address an annual worship day for the Gentiles. If you consider the Scripture does address this and you must consider that the Gentiles must be circumcised. Were you circumcised on your eighth day John?
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Not sure who this website represents, I stumbled on to it and the common sense instruction seemed most appropriate for Arctic and Antarctic conditions...
http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/when-does-the-bible-sabbath-begin-and-end.html (http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/when-does-the-bible-sabbath-begin-and-end.html)
It does not answer the question John. Are saying now that the scriptures teach that the Sabbath starts at Fri 6 p.m. and ends at 6 p.m. Sat. that is what this web sit says. Please show me the Scripture for your belief John.
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I worship on the seventh day after 6 days of work, it is a Holy day at my house. See above post for the numerous scriptures.
Annual days are not part of this thread, the Scriptures do not address an annual worship day for the Gentiles. If you consider the Scripture does address this and you must consider that the Gentiles must be circumcised. Were you circumcised on your eighth day John?
Ah, yes I was.
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Ah, yes I was.
And are you Jew or Gentile John?
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And are you Jew or Gentile John?
Let's see how much you know, I am not a Jew but I am an Israelite.
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Let's see how much you know, I am not a Jew but I am an Israelite.
The reason I ask is I wonder do you believe that that you are bound by the Law, Tradition or other. I asked this because we've seen others, especially Catholics, claimed that tradition is actually more important than what the Scripture says. And I get the impression that is exactly what is happening with you hear. However when you're put in the corner you pull out something like that previous website which tries to use common sense to manipulate the Sabbath.
So I am kind of puzzled here John on exactly what you believe. Do you believe that the seven days are 24 hour periods using our present day Western (Gregorian) calendar, or do you believe the seven days as defined in Jewish tradition? I am talking only about the seven days numbered one through six and ending with the Sabbath, I'm not asking about the other traditional annual sabbaths.
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The reason I ask is I wonder do you believe that that you are bound by the Law, Tradition or other. I asked this because we've seen others, especially Catholics, claimed that tradition is actually more important than what the Scripture says. And I get the impression that is exactly what is happening with you hear. However when you're put in the corner you pull out something like that previous website which tries to use common sense to manipulate the Sabbath.
So I am kind of puzzled here John on exactly what you believe. Do you believe that the seven days are 24 hour periods using our present day Western (Gregorian) calendar, or do you believe the seven days as defined in Jewish tradition? I am talking only about the seven days numbered one through six and ending with the Sabbath, I'm not asking about the other traditional annual sabbaths.
You have had several impressions of me and so far, none have been accurate.
I need no common sense to read straightforward passages about the Sabbath. The Sabbath dates from creation and is clearly stated as THE seventh day, not a day or any day.
I do not believe in any traditions being superior to the Word of God. Traditions such as Sunday worship that was instituted by the Catholic and codified at the coucil of Nicea when Christians were told not to Judaize the church by keeping the seventh day, but rather they must work on the seventh day and then rest on the first day of the week. Traditions such as xmas and ishtar instead of the fourteenth of Nisan. (might want to look up the Quarto-Deciman controversy right about now).
What I believe is that the SAbbath is the approximately 24 hour period from sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening. This is what the Bible defines it as and as such is what I keep.
Do I believe the law is still in force?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You betcha. Christ said it would be until heaven and earth pass away. I looked up at the stars this morning before daybreak and stepped out onto the earth to walk to my car, so, the law is still in force and not a jot or tittle has passed.
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You have had several impressions of me and so far, none have been accurate.
I need no common sense to read straightforward passages about the Sabbath. The Sabbath dates from creation and is clearly stated as THE seventh day, not a day or any day. I don't see one post on this thread that says that it is any other day then the seventh.
I do not believe in any traditions being superior to the Word of God. Traditions such as Sunday worship that was instituted by the Catholic and codified at the coucil of Nicea when Christians were told not to Judaize the church by keeping the seventh day, but rather they must work on the seventh day and then rest on the first day of the week. Traditions such as xmas and ishtar instead of the fourteenth of Nisan. (might want to look up the Quarto-Deciman controversy right about now). Who's week?
What I believe is that the SAbbath is the approximately 24 hour period from sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening. This is what the Bible defines it as and as such is what I keep.
So you don't go by the Gregorian calendar because it's seventh day start at midnight and your sabbath starts on it's (Gregorian calendar) Friday?
Do I believe the law is still in force?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You betcha. Christ said it would be until heaven and earth pass away. I looked up at the stars this morning before daybreak and stepped out onto the earth to walk to my car, so, the law is still in force and not a jot or tittle has passed.
9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat ; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance ; 11 and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat !" 14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
1 Timothy 4:1-5 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which .God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude ; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
By those who believe and know the truth. Amen
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1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
I noticed that you highlighted verse 4, OK, now let's not ignore verse 5. What creatures are sancitfied by the word of God and where might I find this information?
Uh, well, let's try Lev 11 and Deut 14.
(For any SDAs following along, carefully note that "commanding to abstain from meats" is a doctrine of demons.)
Now let me ask you a question, do you believe that Christ is desperately trying to save the world right now and the Devil is doing all he can to get the wrold to go to hell? If someone doesn't say the magic words today, they are doomed to burn in hell forever?
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1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
I noticed that you highlighted verse 4, OK, now let's not ignore verse 5. What creatures are sancitfied by the word of God and where might I find this information?
Uh, well, let's try Lev 11 and Deut 14.
(For any SDAs following along, carefully note that "commanding to abstain from meats" is a doctrine of demons.)
Now let me ask you a question, do you believe that Christ is desperately trying to save the world right now and the Devil is doing all he can to get the wrold to go to hell? If someone doesn't say the magic words today, they are doomed to burn in hell forever?
I posted it for in the last post Acts 10.
1) Christ is not in any danger of losing this battle. John 10, John 17, Revelation 17:8
2) There are no magic words, it is accepting the truth of the Cross and having a change of heart through faith (repentance). All accomplished through the Grace of God.
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The law of the 7th day sabbath is clear but the Jewish Tradition has muddled it up. Through history of the Bible they have misread the meaning of the scriptures. Look at all the prophecy they had of their messiah and when He came giving them all the signs and wonders they MISSED it. Well Christ told them they missed the meaning of the sabbath too.
BB
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I posted it for in the last post Acts 10.
1) Christ is not in any danger of losing this battle. John 10, John 17, Revelation 17:8
2) There are no magic words, it is accepting the truth of the Cross and having a change of heart through faith (repentance). All accomplished through the Grace of God.
So, what say you? Does this go on? For if you believe it does you subscribe to another misunderstanding of the SDAs and Ellen G. White called the Great Controversy.
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So, what say you? Does this go on? For if you believe it does you subscribe to another misunderstanding of the SDAs and Ellen G. White called the Great Controversy.
White was a false prophet. Do you deny this? But I guess the answer that is no, because you are taking up her position on this topic.
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White was a false prophet. Do you deny this? But I guess the answer that is no, because you are taking up her position on this topic.
She was absolutely a false prophet. I plainly said that the Great Controversy doctrine was a misunderstanding of the truth. You seem to have a habit of reading something and misinterpreting it according to preconceived ideas. I do not condemn the SDAs, but they have many, many major errors in their teachings.