Bible discussion
Bible Talk => Eschatology => Topic started by: Proa42 on January 16, 2012, 04:55:43 pm
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So, how do we know from scripture (not popular commentary), the 70 weeks of Daniel is interpreted correctly to be 70 periods of 7 years?
Remember - no "commentary" reference allowed.
Oh yeah - "It just is" is not a valid answer either. :)
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So, how do we know from scripture (not popular commentary), the 70 weeks of Daniel is interpreted correctly to be 70 periods of 7 years?
Remember - no "commentary" reference allowed.
Oh yeah - "It just is" is not a valid answer either. :)
We know from Scripture because Christ accepted it as fact. But the big clue is we have the hind sight to see when the Messiah will be cut off and we see it was 483 years. 483 divided by 7 = 69.
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So, where might I find that in scripture - you know, part about "Christ accepted it"?
I guarantee you, there is a very clear teaching regarding this and it is within the word.
Study to show your self approved a workman who needs not be ashamed.
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So, where might I find that in scripture - you know, part about "Christ accepted it"?
I guarantee you, there is a very clear teaching regarding this and it is within the word.
Study to show your self approved a workman who needs not be ashamed.
OH GEE PROA42 I was sure that Christ told us that He was the Messiah. John 4:25-26, Matthew 16:16-18
And again when was He cut off (how many years?)
Your trouble my friend is you only see what you want to see in the Scriptures. If the conclusion is not come to by the way it has been chosen by you it cannot be correct in your mind.
And my mom use to call me stubborn.
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Too bad you don't want to apply yourself. This is not about whether Jesus is The Christ.
It's about knowing the Word.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
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Too bad you don't want to apply yourself. This is not about whether Jesus is The Christ.
It's about knowing the Word.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
BB is right you read the bible with blinders on. You ask a question and got a correct answer, it may not be the one you want but it is biblical correct.
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As said, "It's too bad you don't want to apply yourselves."
You've answered nothing, nor advanced yourselves in the slightest.
True it is, that I read the bible with blinders on.
I think you don't know what the purpose of blinders are. You see, horses wear blinders so they focus on the road ahead are not distracted by whats going on to the left or right. In that you are surely correct, and I boast myself to be in blinders.
I leave you to tickle each others ears.
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Pro42,
I find your knowledge to be comical at best, the Prophecy eludes you because you have not been given the gift to understand scripture. The prophecy of the 70 weeks is beyond your comprehension as Christ himself referred to Daniel and the destruction of the temple. If Christ made reference to a Prophet then He fully supported that Prophet as being a true Prophet.
Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand.
Clearly as spoken by the words of Christ Himself..you are not in understanding.
C.J.
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It is clear you can't answer the simple question. You are either not willing or unable to learn. You are comfortable in blind belief and anything that you perceive as a threat, you treat as such - much to your loss.
I know the prophecy. I know it is about 490 years.
This is not about that. You children have a lot to learn. And, that's what this thread was meant to be - a learning opportunity.
You all are in such fear that you immediately go into a defensive posture when you perceive your territory is threatened. Anyone who has ever observed great apes in a territorial defense display will recognize the debris tossing and attack postures displayed here.
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It is clear you can't answer the simple question. You are either not willing or unable to learn. You are comfortable in blind belief and anything that you perceive as a threat, you treat as such - much to your loss.
I know the prophecy. I know it is about 490 years.
This is not about that. You children have a lot to learn. And, that's what this thread was meant to be - a learning opportunity.
You all are in such fear that you immediately go into a defensive posture when you perceive your territory is threatened. Anyone who has ever observed great apes in a territorial defense display will recognize the debris tossing and attack postures displayed here.
Over the years we have put up with a lot of that ape dung of yours because you are an old fart stuck in his ways.
So, how do we know from scripture (not popular commentary), the 70 weeks of Daniel is interpreted correctly to be 70 periods of 7 years?
Remember - no "commentary" reference allowed.
Oh yeah - "It just is" is not a valid answer either.
It's been answerred by three people, now take your meds.
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Daniel 9:25-26 (HCSB)
25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince will be seven weeks and 62 weeks. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times.
26 After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed.
NOTE: It does not say Messiah the KING, because the KING would be riding a white horse, but the Messiah the Prince road into Jerusalem on a donkey. What does "cut off" mean? It means killed.
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Daniel 9:25-26 (HCSB)
25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince will be seven weeks and 62 weeks. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times.
26 After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed.
NOTE: It does not say Messiah the KING, because the KING would be riding a white horse, but the Messiah the Prince road into Jerusalem on a donkey. What does "cut off" mean? It means killed.
There is only one Messiah and He shall appear on a white horse the second coming.
Cut off also means to take away.
The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary
= The Romans. So who is the coming prince?
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That is EXACTLY what the Jews did not understand. Messiah had to come as Prince first and then LATER HE will come as KING.
Daniel 9:26 (HCSB)
26 After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off . . .
Isaiah 53:8 (HCSB)
8 He was taken away because of oppression and judgment; and who considered His fate? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was struck because of my people’s rebellion.
Zechariah 9:9 (NASB)
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
Dan. 9:26a. The 62 “sevens” (434 years) extend up to the introduction of the Messiah to the nation Israel. This second period concluded on the day of the Triumphal Entry just before Christ was cut off, that is, crucified.—Bible Knowledge Commentary
ZOLA LEVITT - "Daniel the Prophet and the 70 weeks of Daniel"
http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/138 (http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/138)
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Isaiah 53:8 (HCSB)
8 He was taken away because of oppression and judgment; and who considered His fate? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was struck because of my people’s rebellion.
John 16 7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away ; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
Yes cut off from the land of the living (earth), but He conquered death so for you there is no death.
So who is the coming prince in Daniel 9:26?
Do you have any comment about the flood mentioned?
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GOD the SON when He came as GOD in the mortal flesh, His 33 years in the flesh we know as JESUS CHRIST, was the coming Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9:25, JUST AS JESUS in His Resurrected GLORIFIED immortal flesh is the coming KING in Rev. 19:16.
When the Anointed One would be cut off, Daniel was told, he would have nothing. The word translated “cut off” is used of executing the death penalty on a criminal. Thus the prophecy clearly points to the crucifixion of Christ. At His crucifixion He would “have nothing” in the sense that Israel had rejected Him and the kingdom could not be instituted at that time. Therefore He did not then receive the royal glory as the King on David’s throne over Israel. John referred to this when he wrote, “He came to that which was His own [i.e., the throne to which He had been appointed by the Father] but His own [i.e., His own people] did not receive Him” (John 1:11). Daniel’s prophecy, then, anticipated Christ’s offer of Himself to the nation Israel as her Messiah, the nation’s rejection of Him as Messiah, and His crucifixion.
—Bible Knowledge Commentary
Now as for "the prince to come" in Daniel 9:26-27, most say it is the leader of the final world Empire referred to in Dan. 2:42, which is actually a revival of the Iron Legs Empire, that we know as the Roman Empire, but it is weaker because it is made up of several kingdoms. NOTICE that the European Union has not picked a single ruler yet, BUT I believe the Bible clearly indicates that they will. Now is "the prince to come" that man who ascends to that Position, or is he the Satanic being that possesses and controls that man? I believe it is a reference to the Devil trying to rule the world through the final world Empire's leader, and right now the stage seems to be set for that to be the European Union.
The best sermon series on that subject that I know of, even though they are old sermons from 1979 and 1980, are still those by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - "the Rise and Fall of the World": http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/27-07/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-world-part-1 (http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/27-07/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-world-part-1) and for a specific exposition of Dan. 9:26-27, I recommend his sermon entitled "Israel's Future, Part 3": http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/27-26/israels-future-part-3 (http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/27-26/israels-future-part-3)
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"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood ; even to the end there will be war ; desolations are determined.(NAS)
The people that destroy the city and the sanctuary were from the Roman Empire. At that time it included Turkey. The reason I mention Turkey is that Daniel 11:40 tells us that he will come from the north. There's no doubt in my mind that we are talking about the antichrist, and it is most likely that he will come from Turkey. Of course it is possible that he could come from northern Israel being that it was also part of the Roman Empire at the time the city and the sanctuary was destroyed.
I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture so I don't believe that I will ever see this man on earth.
So what are your thoughts on the flood mentioned in verse 26?
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Who ever it is, I believe he will be invited to rule over the European Union, which is the revived Roman Empire. In Dan. 9:27 it points out that he will be so popular, amongst the Jews and Palestinians, that he will be able to secure a seven year Peace Treaty. It could be that he is a financial wizard that saves everyone economics when it appears that their economies will totally collapse. So he is the conqueror with a bow and no arrows, which symbolizes that he will take over peacefully. However 3.5 years later he becomes the most blood thirsty Dictator that will ever live. He marches into the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, into the Holy of Holies, demands to be worshipped as god, and beheads any and all that refuse to bow to him and take his mark as a symbol of their allegiance.
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I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture so I don't believe that I will ever see this man on earth.
So what are your thoughts on the flood mentioned in verse Dan. 9:26?
I also believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, because it is the only thing that fits the Jewish Wedding traditions; and we are getting called out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb.
As for the flood in Dan. 9:26, it says the end will come with a flood; but I do not see that as additional Noah type heavey rains and water bursting out of the ground flood. GOD keeps his promises and the Rainbows in the skys are the sign of that. Will there be a different type of flood? YES. Just like a flash flood shows no mercy on anyone caught in the Valley, so it will be on the Great Day of His Wrath. And because of HIS no mercy Wrath on that day, there will be a flood in that Valley.
Revelation 14:19-20 (GW)
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth and gathered the grapes from the vine of the earth. He threw them into the winepress of God's anger.
20 The grapes were trampled in the winepress outside the city. Blood flowed out of the winepress as high as a horse's bridle for 1,600 stadia {approximately 184 miles}.
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Like you said that there are many kinds of floods you think this'll do?
Daniel 11:22 A flood of forces will be swept away before him; they will be shattered, as well as the covenant prince.
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So, how do we know from scripture (not popular commentary), the 70 weeks of Daniel is interpreted correctly to be 70 periods of 7 years?
Remember - no "commentary" reference allowed.
Oh yeah - "It just is" is not a valid answer either. :)
In the following, the reason for the 70 Week prophecy in Dan.9:24-27 is recorded in the following, together with the seven years per week formula.
Israel's Sabbatical Year
In reaching a correct understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, it is necessary to understand the circumstances that occasioned the giving of this revelation by God to Daniel. No one questions that it relates to Israel’s Babylonian captivity for failure to observe the sabbatical year, given to Israel by the Lord. But how does that relate to the 70-weeks prophecy? As part of the stipulations in the Mosaic Law Code, Israel was to let her land lay fallow every seventh year.
“Speak to the sons of Israel, and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the Lord. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard. Your harvest’s aftergrowth you shall not reap, and your grapes of untrimmed vines you shall not gather; the land shall have a sabbatical year. And all of you shall have the sabbath products of the land for food; yourself, and your male and female slaves, and your hired man and your foreign resident, those who live as aliens with you’” (Lev. 25:2-6).
Leviticus 26 provides the sanctions that God would impose upon Israel for the years that they did not obey the specifications of a sabbatical year.
"Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it." (Lev. 26:34-35).
"For the land shall be abandoned by them, and shall make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, shall be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes." (Lev. 26:43).
The Lord clearly revealed to Israel on how they were keeping or not keeping His Law in the historical book of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles and why Israel was sent away to Babylon for 70 years in the following passage:
"And those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. all the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete." (2 Chr. 36:20-21).
What passage in Jeremiah was the statement in Chronicles referring to? The following two references provide the answer.
And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years (Jer. 25:11).
For thus says the Lord, “When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place.” (Jer. 29:10).
It is clear from the above passages that God had a specific reason behind the deportation of the Southern Kingdom (Judah) to Babylon for 70 years. This would mean that Israel violated the sabbatical year 70 times. The Jews entered the Promised Land around 1450 b.c. and were deported to Babylon around 600 b.c. This means that they were in the land about 850 years before the Babylonian deportation. Had they disobeyed the sabbatical year commandment every seventh year, it would mean that they should have been in captivity for more than 121 years. Instead, they were held captive for 70 years, meaning that they were disobedient for only 490 of the 850 years in the land. This would mean that there were breaks or gaps in the accumulation of the 490 years, during the 850-year period, that resulted in Israel’s 70-year captivity. Why is this important? Because many of the critics of the literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 insist that it is unreasonable to have gaps in that 490-year period. Which is false, since there were many gaps in the 490-year period related to the Babylonian Captivity.
Defacto