100 Percent Proof that there is No rapture (Part 1)

[unknownservant]

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I know that this is a controversial subject, but if you will read the following information with understanding, you will know 100 percent with no doubt that there is no rapture before or duing the tribulation of anti CHRIST. You will also be able to prove it easily to anyone. Also, this information shows you what your job is for JESUS during the hour of temption.

Disproving the rapture

1. Paul wrote Thessalonians.
2. Paul wrote Hebrews (Scholars agree).
3. Paul spoke Colloquial Greek (street Greek).
4. Look at the Colloquial Greek usage of the word Cloud in Hebrews 12:1.

Heb 12:1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of
witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily
beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Here is the Strongs definition for the word Cloud in Hebrew 12:1:
G3509
νέφος
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.

Notice how the word 'cloud' is used in a slang way.
If you can see this, then it means it's in the bag, you are on your way to understanding that there is no rapture.

Okay, so since we know that Paul talks that way, lets look at how Paul wrote 1st Thessalonians 4:17. Keep in mind though, that analyzing this verse does not disprove the rapture. We just need to be thorough in order to show people how the verse got misunderstood over the years. The context of The Bible and the chapters involved is what disproves the rapture.

Now look at 1st Thessalonians 4:17 (the verse most often used in rapture doctrine):

Without Strongs Numbers:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

With Strongs Numbers:

1Th 4:17  ThenG1899 weG2249 which are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 shall be caught
upG726 togetherG260 withG4862 themG846 inG1722 the clouds,G3507 to meetG1519
G529 theG3588 LordG2962 inG1519 the air:G109 andG2532 soG3779 shall we everG3842
beG2071 withG4862 the Lord.G2962

Notice the words 'caught up'. It's main definition is 'To Seize':

G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up),
pluck, pull, take (by force).

So, the words 'caught up' really isn't much different than what people who believe in a rapture think it means. For the knowledgeable person however, to seize or take by force stands out.

Now look at the word 'clouds'.  It basically means a cloud, but remember that
Paul speaks Colloquial Greek, which is street Greek. Refer back to Hebrews 12:1
to see the usage of 'cloud' in the slang way in which Paul would use it. Here is the Strongs definition:

G3507
νεφέλη
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.

So, can you see how Paul is saying that we will be taken or seized by force into crowds of people?

Now, people may say that it could be read either way, but that's when you remind them that it is not analyzing this verse that disproves the rapture. We analyze this verse in order to be thorough.

Now, comes a very important part of this verse that puts the entire understanding of a rapture believing person on edge. It totally discredits or nullifies their understanding of it. But again, it does not disprove the rapture theory in itself.

Finally, look at the definition for 'air'. It means to breathe, like the breath
of life, not like atmosphere. Here is the definition:

G109
ἀήρ
aēr
ah-ayr'
From ἄημι aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow);
“air” (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.

Now, take a look at Genesis 2:7 where GOD breathed the breath of life into man. The original writing is in Hebrew, whereas 1st Thessalonians 4:17 is in Greek, but you can easily notice that the words mean the same things.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here is the same verse with the Strongs definition numbers:

Gen 2:7  And the LORDH3068 GodH430 formedH3335 (H853) manH120 of the dustH6083 ofH4480 the ground,H127 and breathedH5301 into his nostrilsH639 the breathH5397 of life;H2416 and manH120 becameH1961 a livingH2416 soul.H5315

Now, the 'H' by the number means that the definition of the word is in Hebrew, whereas in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 the numbers are preceded by a 'G', which means that in the original manuscripts the words are in Greek.

Here is the definition for the word 'breath', as in breath of life. You can see that this word means basically the same thing as 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17.

H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

So, the word 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 means our spirit.

Here is 1st Thesalonians 4:17 again:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, using the definitions of the original Greek words as discussed above, this is what the verse would say using those meanings:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be seized (or taken by force) with them in the crowds, to meet the Lord in the spirit: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Now lets look at two other verses in 1st Thessalonians:

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are
alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall
rise first:

Notice that it says that The LORD Returns with the Trump Of GOD! The Trump Of GOD
is the last or 7th Trump. You can read about it in Revelations. Revelations tell us that there are seven events that will come about that signal the end of the age. The seventh event is called the seventh trump, and is the last trump, or the Trump Of GOD.

Have a look:

Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

No where in GOD'S WORD does it state or indicate that JESUS comes back to this earth at any time or for any reason before that Trump sounds. So, since that is the case, we can say with surity that 1st Thessalonians 4:17 does not happen until that time. Also notice that the two verses regarding preventing those that are asleep and that describe the coming of the LORD at the TRUMP OF GOD are the verses right before 1st Thessalonians 4:17. They are verses 4:15 and 4:16. So, the scripture says right there before it tells us about gathering back to CHRIST when we gather back as well. We just need to read 'in context'!

As we proceed further, you will see that The Seventh Trump, The Last Trump, The TRUMP OF GOD does not happen until satan comes to this earth claiming to be GOD. This means that there is no rapture because no one gathers back to JESUS before satan gets here.

And why can't we 'Prevent' those that are asleep? It's because 'Prevent' actually
means 'Precede or Beforehand'. We can't precede them because they are already there.

Here is the Strongs definition for "Prevent":

G5348
φθάνω
phthanō
fthan'-o
Apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, that is, anticipate or precede; by extension to have arrived at: - (already) attain, come, prevent.

Now, if you study 1st Corinthian chapter 15, you will learn that as soon as this flesh body dies or when JESUS Returns, we are immediately in our Breath Of Life spirit body. It's an incorruptable body.

And as far as why we can't precede or be with JESUS before those that have died, well this verse makes it pretty clear:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This verse shows that as soon as you are absent from the flesh body, you are ALREADY present with The LORD! That is why we can't prevent or more accurately precede those that are asleep.

[unknownservant]

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100 Percent Proof that there is No rapture (Part 2)

Now, I've actually decided to show 2 more verses in 1st Thessalonians. Here they are:

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write
unto you.
1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief
in the night.

In verse 5:1, Paul is saying he doesn't need to write of the signs or seasons because they already know them. They are in Mathew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Daniel has a fair bit to say about them also.
Revelations is full of info on the end time!

So, now look at 5:2. When is the Day Of The LORD? It's at the end of this age when JESUS
returns at the 7th Trump (The Trump Of GOD)! That's the Millennium! And why does The LORD
return as a Thief in the night? Well, it's because the Night before the Day (THE LORD'S DAY)
is the hour of temptation and as a Thief because since many will believe that CHRIST has
already returned, they won't be watching or looking for HIM! Then they will wish for the
rocks to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of the LAMB!

We know from Revelation that satan is cast back to earth (along with his angels) at the
sixth Trump, and we also know that the last Trump is the Seventh Trump which is The Trump Of God!
At the Seventh Trump, CHRIST Returns! This is the start of The LORD'S DAY, which is the Millennium!

So you see, there is no rapture. The rapture is a doctrine from the 1800s that is not
Biblical. If you don't perk up and be knowledgeable of this, there is a chance that you will
fall for satan when he gets here because satan is anti- CHRIST. 'Anti' in the Greek means
'instead of', not against. satan will pretend to be CHRIST in order to deceive you! If you
follow him, you are taking the mark of the beast!

Luke 17: 34 to 37
The subject is the end time and all prophesies given in nights, moons, or months are of
satan. Prophesies given in days or solar years are always regarding GOD or GOD'S children.

Luk 17:34  I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,
and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35  Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36  Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37  And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever
the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. It is known here, that eagles should
have been translated as Vultures.

Since the subject is the night and the night relates to satan, this is right before or the night
before The LORD'S DAY. Since JESUS has not Returned yet, the one taken, is taken by anti- CHRIST
because they think he is JESUS Returned!

The key is that you understand the scriptures and that it is easy to see that if the subject is the night before the DAY, that the one taken is taken by anti CHRIST. These verses are often used to say there is a rapture. But it needs to be explained so that people see they missing the subject and are not understanding what it is saying.

The reason that the one taken is taken by anti CHRIST is that it is the Night before JESUS Returns, So, since JESUS isn't here yet, then if anyone is taken, then they could Only be taken by anti CHRIST!

All of this brings us to one conclusion:
If there is no rapture, what are we waiting for and what are we supposed to do?
The answer is that we are waiting for The TRUE CHRIST to return and we are supposed to put on the
Gospel Armour and prepare and do battle until HE returns! The Gospel Armour is in Ephesions 6!

If you read Mathew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see a set or list of events that take place
at the end time. It tells you exactly what to watch for and what to do (What YOUR job is for JESUS
at the end time!):

I'll tell you in a nutshell, but you should read the verses from one of those chapters so that you can
know for yourself (ALWAYS proof me out, never take man's word for anything! Always use The Bible
(GOD'S WORD) as your anchor in TRUTH!). Let's face it! Deception is running rampant at the end time.
There are more Bible translations than ever before and many Bible translations and Concordance's have
made changes that hide the real TRUTH of GOD'S WORD. Only use the original King James Version of
the Bible or you run the risk of being deceived.

1. Many shall come in CHRIST'S NAME, don't be deceived by them.

2. There will be wars and rumours of wars, but the end is not yet.
         (This indicates that the time to perk up is when there is talk of peace. It says that when there are wars and rumours of wars that the end is not yet. So, that must mean when the wars and rumours of wars stop and peace is around, then perk up because the end is at hand.)

3. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
         (Since 2011, there have been commotions or insurrections in many Middle East countries.
           There are many wars also.)

4. There will be great earthquakes in diverse places, and famines, and pestilences; and signs from heaven.
         (The Chili quake and the Japan quake and also varius other quakes.)
         (The Tetrads coming up in 2014 and 2015.)
         (These are the beginnings of sorrows (birth pains).)

5. They shall lead you and deliver you up to councils, but take no thought beforehand what you will say,
for THE HOLY SPIRIT will speak through you for a testamony against them. (This is your end time Job!)
If it clearly says that you will be delivered upto death (which is the devil), then how can you be raptured
out? Do you think that GOD will speak through a deceived person or non believer? I don't think so!

6. The abomination of desolation (the devil) will stand in Jeruselem claiming to be JESUS.
Remember anti in the Greek means 'instead of', so he is 'instead of' CHRIST or anti CHRIST.
The devil blaspheme's the NAME OF GOD by claiming to be GOD!
Do you know what the 'Falling Away' is? It's when most of the world believes that satan is JESUS and instantly falls away from the TRUE JESUS! Do you know how the Gospel is preached throughout the world? It's by those trials where they deliver you up for a testamony against the devil! All who hear is will hear it in their own language and it will convince even the gainsayers!

7. THE TRUE JESUS RETURNS! IT'S NOW THE START OF THE LORD'S DAY (THE MELLENIUM)!
In Peter is says that a day with the LORD is 1000 years to man. The LORD'S DAY is 1000 years long and we will all be in spirit bodies at that time. The LORD'S DAY is also called the Mellenium. It's the time when JESUS rules with an Iron Rod. This means descipline! There are no second chances! The LORD'S DAY is for those that did not get the TRUTH in this age! At the end of the LORD'S DAY, the devil is loosed for a short season to test those that go through the Mellenium! Then comes THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT, and after that, ETERNITY!

In 2nd Thessalonians, Paul says we do not gather back to CHRIST until the devil stands in the Holy Place.
So, if the devil is already here, and CHRIST hasn't returned, and JESUS says that you will be delivered up to synagogs for a testamony against them, there is no rapture!
Also, if you can pinch yourself and it hurts, you are not in your spirit body.
When JESUS returns, we all change in the blink of an eye into our spirit bodies (we will meet HIM in our spirit bodies).
So, if you are not in a spirit body and someone is claiming to be JESUS, then it is anti CHRIST.
I don't mean your average person claiming to be JESUS. I mean if there is a being that is very powerful and supernatural performing miracles, and you are not in a spirit body, that being is the devil.

Now, I said I would show that satan comes to this earth before JESUS Returns. Take a look at Mark 13:14. It states that the abomination of desolation stands in the Holy Place. That is satan, and JESUS has not yet returned. The TRUMP OF GOD has not happened and everyone is still here on earth and in flesh. So this means that we all have to go through The Great Tribulation.

If you take a look at Mark 13:26, you will see that THE TRUMP OF GOD has sounded because JESUS is Returning. The order of events are that satan comes first, then at some time later JESUS Returns. I will post both verses right here before the chapter so that you can read them and see the order of events. Read the chapter though, there is a lot of information as to what happens at the end time.

Mar 13:14  But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Mar 13:26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

With the information in this document, it should be clear to the reader that there is no rapture. The rapture is an end time deception that could result in a Christian being deceived into worshipping satan.

One last comment:

When the Thessalonians became confused as to when we would gather back to CHRIST after Paul sent them the first letter (which was 1st Thessalonians), Paul wrote them a second letter to straighten it all out. The second letter is 2nd Thessalonians and the key verses that correct the misunderstanding of when we gather back to CHRIST are as follows:

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:1 shows that the subject is the return of CHRIST and our gathering back to HIM. Beseech basically means Paul is giving them a warning.

2Th 2:2 shows that Paul is saying not to get mixed up (shaken in mind) or be troubled by spirit (like a bunch of hype where people are into and believing a false doctrine such as the rapture doctrine) or anyone's opinion (word), and the key part for us is that Paul is saying don't be shaken in mind (mixed up) by that last letter we wrote to you (nor by letter as from us). That last letter that Paul is talking about is 1st Thessalonians. The main thing that Paul wants them to realize is that the day of CHRIST is NOT at hand. It's not going to happen until things are set into place!

2Th 2:3 Paul is saying don't fall for anyones lies or tricks or ignorance. He is saying that CHRIST does not return (by rapture or otherwise) until there is a falling away from CHRIST (how can there be a falling away from CHRIST? It's simple! When satan comes pretending to be CHRIST, most people fall for it and start worshiping satan. They think satan is CHRIST and fall away from The True CHRIST). The man of sin that gets revealed is the devil, the son of perdition. There is only one named son of GOD that is already  sentenced to death and that is satan. Perdition means to die. Ezekiel 28 is where satan is sentenced to death.

Eze 28:18  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

So you see, satan will be turned to ashes from the inside out.

2Th 2:4 Shows what satan will be doing. That discusting arch angel will be standing in The Holy Place claiming to be GOD. The key thing is to notice that all of this happens before the true CHRIST returns. There is no rapture!

[Fat]

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Hello Unknownservant and welcome.

Do you believe there will be a rapture after the 7 year tribulation?

By the way the Strong's number used for cloud in Hebrew 12:1(G3509) is not the same word used in 1Th 4:17 (G3507)

Strong's Number:   3507    
Original Word   Word Origin
nefevlh   from (3509)
Transliterated Word   
Nephele   
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
nef-el'-ay        Noun Feminine
 Definition
a cloud
used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The only question here is the timing. (IMHO)
 

[Fat]

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Rom. 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

[unknownservant]

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Hi Fat,

Thanks for the welcome!
The main point is that the word 'cloud' is used to indicate cloud. Whether it is Hebrew or Greek, it's still a cloud. The point being in Hebrews 12:1 is that Paul is speaking Greek slang or street Greek. He is saying 'a cloud of witnesses' just like you might say a swarm of bees or cloud of bees. So, using that same slang, Paul would be saying 'meet in the crowd'. This isn't what disproves the rapture however, I'm just being thorough. It's the overall context and timing that proves there is no rapture. Especially that we don't gather back with CHRIST until The Trump Of GOD. As far as a rapture after the 7 year tribulation, first I want to say that the 7 year tribulation is cut short to five months. I can prove this to you in a later post. To answer your question though, we aren't actually raptured after the tribulation, but switched into our spirit bodies at the 7th Trump. At that time, the Millennium begins and the Millennium is here on earth.

[admin]

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I receive the following email from mike in the  AU
I think that's Australia .

I agree with a lot of what you have said but you are in error in your reasoning here.



Since the subject is the night and the night relates to satan, this is right before or the night
before The LORD'S DAY. Since JESUS has not Returned yet, the one taken, is taken by anti- CHRIST
because they think he is JESUS Returned!


Indeed when you look at who is taken and left

Some are in daylight some are in night

People did not realise this at the time but as the earth has daylight in some parts it is night in other parts

Luk 17:34  I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,
and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35  Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36  Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


v35 and v36 are in daytime
v34 is night

[Fat]

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I don't believe Paul Hebrews.

What's your main problem is with the phrase I will return as a thief in the night. The idea of Christ return together with his people without warning is repeated throughout the Scriptures. Can you explain to me help any Christian and go to a seven year tribulation not know that it is this happening? If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.

But Unknownservant, that would mean you would not have to keep the oil in your lamp for the return of the groom, how convenient.

matthew 25
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn't take oil with them. 4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps. 5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 "In the middle of the night there was a shout: 'Here's the groom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.' 9 "The sensible ones answered, 'No, there won't be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.' 10 "When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

[unknownservant]

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Hi Mike,

On this verse, JESUS is saying that it is night. HE is indicating symbolically that it is the hour of temptation, which is considered the darkest hour for mankind. It's the night before The LORD'S DAY! At the end of this night, the Day starts (meaning The LORD'S DAY). This 'night' is actually five months long, but I'll show that in a future post (GOD Willing!).
Luk 17:34  I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

This verse says that two will be working, one is taken (stops working) and the other will be left (continues working).
Luk 17:35  Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The field is the world. What do people do in the field? They work. The one taken, again, stops working. The other continues to work. The one taken is taken by anti CHRIST. Why does the one taken stop working? Because the one taken believes that the work is over. The one taken believes JESUS has returned. The one that continues working in the field (the field is the world) knows that the anti CHRIST is a fake and is not the TRUE JESUS, so he or she is continuing to do their work and waiting on The TRUE CHRIST to return.
Luk 17:36  Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

[unknownservant]

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Hi Fat,
I copied your reply so that it would be easier for me to keep track of our conversation. I will put a '>" next to my response.

I don't believe Paul Hebrews.

>Whether or not Paul wrote Hebrews or not doesn't really prove or disprove the rapture. I believe that he did write Hebrews, however, I'm aware that some do not believe this to be the case. It still does not make any difference on the result of the scriptures. It's the context and timing of what is written that actually proves there is no rapture.

What's your main problem is with the phrase I will return as a thief in the night. The idea of Christ return together with his people without warning is repeated throughout the Scriptures. Can you explain to me help any Christian and go to a seven year tribulation not know that it is this happening?

>You have to read the book of Daniel. The devil does not come in as a snarling evil beast trying to kill everyone. The devil comes in peacefully and prosperously and destroys wonderfully with peace. Those that dwell on the earth will 'wonder' after him except those written in the book of Life from the 'foundation' of the world. The word 'wonder' means 'admire', which is the same as worship. Those that dwell on the earth think he is JESUS. The people won't think they are in a tribulation, they will think their savior has returned.

Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The only ones that the devil is after are GOD'S elect. They are the one's whose names were written in The Book Of Life from the foundation of the world.

 If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.

Those that don't know TRUTH will also not likely know who the two witnesses are. People will believe there is a rapture because one verse preachers told them that, not because they studied. It's likely they will not know the two witnesses are who they are. It would be nice if at least some do however. It might mean they don't have to go through the Millennium. Also, it's not three and a half years after the two witnesses are killed that JESUS returns, it's three and a half days.

Rev 11:11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

But Unknownservant, that would mean you would not have to keep the oil in your lamp for the return of the groom, how convenient.

>The Oil that we keep in our Lamps is The Oil Of Our People, which is Olive Oil, which is symbolic of TRUTH, Which is THE HOLY SPIRIT!

matthew 25
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn't take oil with them. 4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps. 5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 "In the middle of the night there was a shout: 'Here's the groom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.' 9 "The sensible ones answered, 'No, there won't be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.' 10 "When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

[Fat]

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You're making my point Unknownservant.

Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The only ones that the devil is after are GOD'S elect. They are the one's whose names were written in The Book Of Life from the foundation of the world.

 If you were here at the time of the tribulation would you not recognize the two witnesses? And if you recognized the two witnesses and observed them rising from death and returning to the heavens would you not be able to count the 3 1/2 years remaining before the return of Christ? That would not really be coming unannounced would it.

Those that don't know TRUTH will also not likely know who the two witnesses are. People will believe there is a rapture because one verse preachers told them that, not because they studied. It's likely they will not know the two witnesses are who they are. It would be nice if at least some do however. It might mean they don't have to go through the Millennium. Also, it's not three and a half years after the two witnesses are killed that JESUS returns, it's three and a half days.

It is 3 1/2 years but even if it was Days it is still notice of His return, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about the (a) rapture or the Day of the Lord the clock starts at the with the 'rapture' of the two witnesses.
Test your theory with the Scripture, it does not hold up.

As far as a rapture after the 7 year tribulation, first I want to say that the 7 year tribulation is cut short to five months. I can prove this to you in a later post.

I'm interested in this statement, go on please.

[Hal]

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Fat,
There is no judgement in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, it is not the Day of the Lord. The rapture and the day of judgement are not the same as Rev 6 and Rev 19.

[Hal]

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From: Barnes’ Notes On The New Testament

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive—Those who shall then be alive; see 1 Thes 4:15. The word here rendered “then” ( ἔπειτα epeita ), does not necessarily mean that this would occur immediately. It properly marks succession in time, and means “afterward, next, next in the order of events;” Luke 16:7 ; Gal. 1:21 ; James 4:14 . There may be a considerable interval between the resurrection of the pious and the time when the living shall be caught up to meet the Lord, for the change is to take place in them which will fit them to ascend with those who have been raised. The meaning is, that after the dead are raised, or the next thing in order, they and the living will ascend to meet the Lord. The proper meaning of the word, however, denotes a succession so close as to exclude the idea of a long interval in which other important transactions would occur, such an interval, for example, as would be involved in a long personal reign of the Redeemer on earth. The word demands this interpretation—that the next thing in order after the resurrection of the righteous, will be their being caught up with the living, with an appropriate change, into the air—though, as has been remarked, it will admit of the supposition of such a brief, momentary interval ἐν ἄτομος ἐν ῥιπη ὀφθαλμου en atomos en rhipē ophthalmou , 1 Cor. 15:51-52 ) as shall be necessary to prepare for it.
Shall be caught up—The word here used implies that there will be the application of external force or power by which this will be done. It will not be by any power of ascending which they will themselves have; or by any tendency of their raised or changed bodies to ascend of their own accord, or even by any effort of their own will, but by a power applied to them which will cause them to rise. Compare the use of the word ἁρπάζω harpazō in Matt. 11:12 , “the violent take it by force;” Matt 13:19, “then cometh the wicked one and snatcheth away;” John 6:15 , “that they would come and take him by force; John 10:12, “the wolf catcheth them;” Acts 8:39 , “the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; 2 Cor. 12:2 , “such an one caught up to the third heaven;” also, John 12:28-29 ; Acts 23:10 ; Jude 23 ; Rev. 12:5 . The verb does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament In all these instances there is the idea of either foreign force or violence effecting that which is done. What force or power is to be applied in causing the living and the dead to ascend, is not expressed. Whether it is to be by the ministry of angels, or by the direct power of the Son of God, is not intimated, though the latter seems to be most probable. The word should not be construed, however. as implying that there will be any reluctance on the part of the saints to appear before the Saviour, but merely with reference to the physical fact that power will be necessary to elevate them to meet him in the air. Will their, bodies then be such that they will have the power of locomotion at will from place to place?
In the clouds—Greek, “in clouds”— ἐν νεφέλαις en nephelais —without the article. This may mean “in clouds;” that is, in such numbers, and in such grouping as to resemble clouds. So it is rendered by Macknight, Koppe, Rosenmüller, Bush (Anasta. 266), and others. The absence of the article here would rather seem to demand this interpretation Still, however, the other interpretation may be true, that it means that they will be caught up into the region of the clouds, or to the clouds which shall accompany the Lord Jesus on his return to our world. Matt. 24:30; 26:64 ; Mark 16:19; 14:62 ; Rev. 1:7  compare Dan. 7:13 . In whichever sense it is understood, the expression is one of great sublimity, and the scene will be immensely grand. Some doctrine of this kind was held by the ancient Jews. Thus rabbi Nathan (Midras Tillin, 48:13) says, “What has been done before will be done again. As he led the Israelites from Egypt in the clouds of heaven, so will he do to them in the future time.”
To meet the Lord in the air—In the regions of the atmosphere—above the earth. It would seem from this, that the Lord Jesus, in his coming, would not descend to the earth, but would remain at a distance from it in the air, where the great transactions of the judgment will occur. It is, indeed, nowhere said that the transactions of the judgment will occur upon the earth. The world would not be spacious enough to contain all the assembled living and dead, and hence the throne of judgment will be fixed in the ample space above it.
And so shall we ever be with the Lord—This does not mean that they will always remain with him in the air—for their final home will be heaven—and after the trial they will accompany him to the realms of glory; Matt. 25:34 , “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom,” etc. The time during which they will remain with him “in the air” is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It will be as long as will be necessary for the purposes of judging a world and deciding the eternal doom of every individual “according to the deeds done in the body.” There is no reason to suppose that this will be accomplished in a single day of twenty-four hours; but it is impossible to form and conjecture of the period which will be occupied.

[unknownservant]

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Hi Fat,

The hour of temptation will be cut to five months. It's the same length of time as Noah's flood.

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Rev 9:10  And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

[Fat]

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We get a lot of people that draw smoke out of the scriptures used to form cult religions but this is really a stretch.
You would make a good Mormon, but you don't claim that on your profile, is that an oversight?

[unknownservant]

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Hi Fat,

If you read each thing I write, you will see that it is completely GOD'S WORD. No stretching needed. Cults take things that are written and then twist them just like the devil did in Matthew 4. But be careful, if you let those cults keep you from the Truth, then your lack of Truth is basically as bad as a cult.

No, I'm not mormon, I'm elect.