Author Topic: Can a church or a nation sin?  (Read 3632 times)

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Bob

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Can a church or a nation sin?
« on: July 05, 2010, 04:14:17 pm »
Can a church or a nation sin? will God hold whole countries responsible for their actions? The text that I would refer you to is revelations 2 and Joel 3.

Revelation 2:5 Therefore, remember from what high state you have fallen and repent! Do the deeds you did at the first; if not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place - that is, if you do not repent.

Joel 3:2 Then I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. I will enter into judgment against them there concerning my people Israel who are my inheritance, whom they scattered among the nations. They partitioned my land,

And of course we have the incidences of Sodom and Gomorrah where God brings into judgment the whole society.

So I think the big question here, first of all speaking of the church, is how does a church avoid sin. Well in the preceding verse of revelations verse 4 Christ points out that the church had abandoned its original love. This could mean many things but for sure the church of Ephesus left the teachings of Christ. This must've been in some way to do with their doctrine. For individuals in any denomination or church will always sin and the church will never be at the state of purity until the last days. So the church must have added or subtracted from the original doctrine which they practice to cause this rebuke. As you go through the seven churches of revelations you see also that the church is guilty of allowing sin to flourish and failed to rebuke their members for their sinful life's. So yes the church can sin but it can avoid sin by sticking to the fundamentals as taught by Christ and the apostles. This includes the use of church discipline.

But what about a nation, there is no question that nations who sinned in the Bible and have been brought to judgment for their sins. And when a nation sins who was responsible? If we are to follow the teaching of Scripture we will obey the orders of the leaders of the nations. So then who in these nations that sin against our Lord will come to judgment for those sins?

As we look at the history and the Bible everyone paid for the sins of the nations. After all there is no one righteous, not even one. So how does a nation avoid sin? When you look at Joel 3 it appears that the judgment in the end times will be against all nations that participate in the division of Israel. As we look at the United Nations including United States it appears that every nation is enthusiastic about the division of Jerusalem. No one stands for God's land but the Israelis and the Christians who are part of the vine scattered amongst the many nations. Fortunately for the Christians they will not be here during those final days when God will gather all nations for judgment for their treatment of his people.

We know by the Scriptures that God likes to tell us of his pending judgment and warned us to change our ways before the judgment comes. That is part of our mission in this world, to explain to the world of the coming wrath of God. It is important that we do our best in the church and as members of our individual nations, to inform those in charge of the necessity of obeying God's commands.




jeanleryenierga

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Re: Can a church or a nation sin?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 08:40:58 pm »
I believe that the church is also sacred like the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus saved the nation from their sins and there is absolutely the possibility that nation sinned against Him. Precisely, we should do away from sin before judgment comes according to the Bible.

Bob

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Re: Can a church or a nation sin?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 05:54:36 pm »
I believe that the church was also sacred like the bible, but I didn't even wonder if the church commits a particular sin that disobey the God's will. In the bible, Jesus saved the nation from sins and there is absolutely the possibility that nation sinned against Him. Precisely, we should take our way from sin before the judgment comes according to the bible.

Hello Jean,

The church we are talking about is the church with a small c not the Church that is the Bride of Christ this a capital C. I believe that the truth contained in the bible to be sacred but not the bible, that would be idolatry in my mind.

Revelation 2:5 is warning us that a church may not become The Church (Bride) of Christ.