Author Topic: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit  (Read 18279 times)

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Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2012, 08:53:33 am »
Fat,

One finally thought to share with you.  You have quoted this verse several times concerning Faith:

Romans 10:14 (NKJV)
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

And I have quoted this verse several times:

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Romans 1:20 is describing one of GOD's preachers, and it is created nature itself; and it is preaching about the invisibe attributes of GOD, and His power (which includes His power to save), and even the Doctrine of the Godhead.

Now, since I am pretty sure that you believe "All Scripture is inspired by GOD."; it is GOD who put those words in Romans 1:20 in Pauls head.

You should try to read the scriptures in context.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2012, 11:12:24 pm »
You keep forgetting a word in your salvation scenario, repent.

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord ;

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Note that the word sins is plural not singular.

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

May the great corn mother watch your Cherokee brothers.


And you keep forgetting:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Is not repentance a Good Work?  Then Repentance is a BI-PRODUCT characteristic of that Genuine Salvation that is BY GRACE ALONE, and not something we can do to save ourselves, or to appease GOD for our sins.  Was Repentence required in the LAW?  YES it was:

Ezekiel 18:30 (ESV)
30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.

Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

And as I stated before, having faith in the Creator is having faith in Jesus Christ, because HE IS THE CREATOR.  Of that we HAVE NO DOUBT, because He said so in Col. 1:16; PLUS He proved He was the Creator in front of more than thousand times the witnesses required by Roman Law, when HE fed the 5000, and the 4000, as HE created more fish and loaves repeatedly until everyone had their fill.

Yes, I do believe we have a Stalemate.

admin

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2012, 09:36:15 am »

And you keep forgetting:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Is not repentance a Good Work?  Then Repentance is a BI-PRODUCT characteristic of that Genuine Salvation that is BY GRACE ALONE, and not something we can do to save ourselves, or to appease GOD for our sins.  Was Repentance required in the LAW?  YES it was:

Ezekiel 18:30 (ESV)
30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.

Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

And as I stated before, having faith in the Creator is having faith in Jesus Christ, because HE IS THE CREATOR.  Of that we HAVE NO DOUBT, because He said so in Col. 1:16; PLUS He proved He was the Creator in front of more than thousand times the witnesses required by Roman Law, when HE fed the 5000, and the 4000, as HE created more fish and loaves repeatedly until everyone had their fill.

Yes, I do believe we have a Stalemate.

I am going to lock this thread because the casual reader may get the wrong message from our friend VCO. But first my 2 cents.

Repentance is not a work anymore than praying is a work. Our God is a just God and the Holy Spirit can not enter into an unrepentant body. Christ said a man must be born again of the Spirit.

Forgiveness cannot be effected, nor righteousness declared, until guilt has been established, this we call conviction of sin. If a man is not guilty, no act or declaration of justification is needed. The man who contends that he does not need to be justified by God must first establish the evidence that there is no accusation against him. But he who believes the Scriptures, and examines his own heart honestly, must admit that he is an accused and guilty sinner before God. We know that there is something wrong with the human race. “All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).