Author Topic: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem  (Read 1192 times)

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Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2017, 07:26:30 AM »
Hi Defacto

 

Oh do I detect a little pride in this post, isn’t that wonderful.

You are adding to the written word just like Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and the Pope do. You are putting words in the scripture that are not there and you use for your authority MAN.

The Scripture is clear and there is nothing in them that supports your claim:

daniel 9 NAS
24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two * weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 "Then after the sixty-two * weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."


Rev.11 NAS
1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two * months. 3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve * hundred * and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

P.S. there was no USAAF in WW2, there was an Army Air Corps until 1947, and the matter of your 50,000 post is irrelevant to any discussion about any thing except that you made 50,000 post.

IHS
BB


The Scriptures you have quoted are 100% accurate.  However your interpretation of them comes straight from the seat of your pants guesswork from an amateur who implies he knows more about Biblical eschatology than the following experts who all refute you:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.

All of whom fully endorse the prophetic fact that the third temple to be built in Jerusalem, cannot be done until AFTER the Antichrist [the three "he's" in Dan.08:27; the man of lawlessness of 2 Thess.2:3-4 and 8; the beast out of the sea, in Rev.13:1-2] is revealed!  Reference to the temple court yard in Rev.11:1-2 is an event that will take place during the FIRST 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation!.  The beast out of the se/Antichrist has the authrity to continue for 42 months, in Rev.13:5!

The Millennial temple will be built by Jesus, as posted in the OP and recorded in Zech.6:12-13, that is described in Ez.40-47!  All of which is fully supported from the Scriptures, whether you accept it or not!

FYI, I have an Honorable Discharge from the United States Army Air Force, from active service dated December 7, 1945, where I served in the Air Transport Command.  On call in the Reserve until 1953.  The United States Air Force was established in 1948.  Don't call me a liar again, junior!


Defacto
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 07:28:29 AM by Defacto »

Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2017, 07:31:17 AM »

Happy new year everyone !

sola scriptura


“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”
II Timothy‬ 3:16‬ NKJV‬‬


Hi Bob,

Happy New Year to you, and thank you.


Defacto

biblebuf

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2017, 11:23:05 AM »
Hello again Defacto

Quote from: You said
As a WWII vet, I spent two years of it serving in the USAAF Air Corp at numerous rocks in the Pacific, fighting a war to preserve the lifestyle you have been able to enjoy so far, during your lifetime.


Quote from: I said
P.S. there was no USAAF in WW2, there was an Army Air Corps until 1947.


Quote from: Now you say
FYI, I have an Honorable Discharge from the United States Army Air Force, from active service dated December 7, 1945, where I served in the Air Transport Command.  On call in the Reserve until 1953.  The United States Air Force was established in 1948.  Don't call me a liar again, junior!

Are you now saying that you meant to say United States Army Air Corp when you said "USAAF Air Corp"? That is the point I tried to make to you, but you are stuck with the inability to take any corrective criticism, you seem to take it as an assault on your service. You know when I tell people that the Army (with the help of the Air Force) dropped out of a C-130 over Turkey in 1965 I do not feel that my service  is being called into question when they say "but Turkey is part of NATO", they are looking for an explanation not making an accusation.

Quote from: Again I said
P.S. there was no USAAF in WW2, there was an Army Air Corps until 1947.



You added to my post just as you add to the to the scripture to come up with your interpretation of Dan 9.  But good name calling Defacto.


admin

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2017, 11:33:14 AM »
Rules of the Board.

http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,604.0.html

Admin Dude

macuser

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2017, 02:23:29 PM »
Hello Defacto happy new year to you and all the board!

I can give you a thousand  theologians That don't believe in Jesus, a thousand theologians that do believe in Jesus but not that He was the Christ, a thousand theologians that believe  that Christ was the Archangel Michael , a thousand theologians that don't believe that the Son and Father are not ONE.

So what does it mean? Did you know that Gill, the only man I know that has written a commintery on every verse in the Bible, disagrees with you?

Have a great 2017!
Mac

Fat

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2017, 06:31:54 PM »

Revelation 11:1
John Gill and John Darby commentaries use replacement theology to explain the Temple actually being the Church.

Many commentaries claim the reference to the Temple is the spiritual church of God's elect. Another form of replacement theology. Of course this cannot be correct because at this time the rapture would have already occurred, and the church would not be present on earth.

John MacArthur gets it right.

 11: 1 a measuring rod. This was a hollow, bamboo-like cane plant that grew in the Jordan Valley. Because of its light weight and rigidity, it was commonly used as a measuring rod (cf. Eze 40: 3, 5). Measuring the temple signified God’s ownership of it (cf. 21: 15; Zec 2: 1– 5). the temple of God. Refers to the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place, not the entire temple complex (cf. v. 2). A rebuilt temple will exist during the time of the Tribulation (Da 9: 27; 12: 11; Mt 24: 15; 2Th 2: 4). altar. The reference to worshipers suggests this is the bronze altar in the courtyard, not the incense altar in the Holy Place, since only the priests were permitted inside the Holy Place (cf. Lk 1: 8– 10). † 11: 2 court which is outside. The court of the Gentiles, separated from the inner court in the Herodian temple by a low wall. Gentiles were forbidden to enter the inner court on penalty of death. That John is instructed not to measure the outer court symbolizes God’s rejection of the unbelieving Gentiles who have oppressed His covenant people. tread under foot the holy city. Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome all oppressed Jerusalem in ancient times (cf. 2Ki 25: 8– 10; Ps 79: 1; Is 63: 18; La 1: 10).
This verse refers to the future devastating destruction and oppression of Jerusalem by the forces of the Antichrist. forty-two months. This 3 1/ 2 year period covers the second half of the Tribulation and coincides with the visibly evil career of the Antichrist (v. 3; 12: 6; 13: 5). During this same time, the Jews will be sheltered by God in the wilderness (12: 6, 14). † 11: 3 two witnesses. Individuals granted special power and authority by God to preach a message of judgment and salvation during the second half of the Tribulation. The OT required two or more witnesses to confirm testimony (cf. Dt 17: 6; 19: 15; Mt 18: 16; Jn 8: 17; Heb 10: 28), and these two prophets will be the culmination of God’s testimony to Israel: a message of judgment from God and of His gracious offer of the gospel to all who will repent and believe. twelve hundred and sixty days. Forty-two months or 3 1/ 2 years (cf. 12: 6; 13: 5; see note on v. 2). sackcloth. Coarse, rough cloth made from goat or camel hair. Wearing garments made from it expressed penitence, humility, and mourning (cf. Ge 37: 34; 2Sa 3: 31; 2Ki 6: 30; 19: 1; Est 4: 1; Is 22: 12; Jer 6: 26; Mt 11: 21). The witnesses are mourning because of the wretched wickedness of the world, God’s judgment on it, and the desecration of the temple and the holy city by the Antichrist.

MacArthur, John (2006-04-11). The MacArthur Study Bible, NASB

When the Temple will be rebuilt is anybody's guess, but nobody that I have read believes it has anything to do with the antichrist covenant. I have read that the Jews have already fabricated the new Temple so that it can be put up very quickly. I don't know if this is true or not but if it is I would believe it would still take some time to construct considering the preparation that will be required before sitting the foundation.



Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2017, 07:33:52 PM »
Hello again Defacto



Are you now saying that you meant to say United States Army Air Corp when you said "USAAF Air Corp"? That is the point I tried to make to you, but you are stuck with the inability to take any corrective criticism, you seem to take it as an assault on your service. You know when I tell people that the Army (with the help of the Air Force) dropped out of a C-130 over Turkey in 1965 I do not feel that my service  is being called into question when they say "but Turkey is part of NATO", they are looking for an explanation not making an accusation.



You added to my post just as you add to the to the scripture to come up with your interpretation of Dan 9.  But good name calling Defacto.


Biblebuf,

The U.S. designation for the Army Air Corp, was the United States Army Air Force.  USAAF for short.  Stop arguing with a veteran who served for them and do a little research on your own.


Defacto

Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2017, 07:36:45 PM »
Hello Defacto happy new year to you and all the board!

I can give you a thousand  theologians That don't believe in Jesus, a thousand theologians that do believe in Jesus but not that He was the Christ, a thousand theologians that believe  that Christ was the Archangel Michael , a thousand theologians that don't believe that the Son and Father are not ONE.

So what does it mean? Did you know that Gill, the only man I know that has written a commintery on every verse in the Bible, disagrees with you?

Have a great 2017!
Mac


Hi macuser,

Happy new year to you.  Yes, that is whar happened to Jesus.  There were many who didn't elieve him either.


Defacto

Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2017, 07:51:39 PM »
Revelation 11:1
John Gill and John Darby commentaries use replacement theology to explain the Temple actually being the Church.

Many commentaries claim the reference to the Temple is the spiritual church of God's elect. Another form of replacement theology. Of course this cannot be correct because at this time the rapture would have already occurred, and the church would not be present on earth.

John MacArthur gets it right.

 11: 1 a measuring rod. This was a hollow, bamboo-like cane plant that grew in the Jordan Valley. Because of its light weight and rigidity, it was commonly used as a measuring rod (cf. Eze 40: 3, 5). Measuring the temple signified God’s ownership of it (cf. 21: 15; Zec 2: 1– 5). the temple of God. Refers to the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place, not the entire temple complex (cf. v. 2). A rebuilt temple will exist during the time of the Tribulation (Da 9: 27; 12: 11; Mt 24: 15; 2Th 2: 4). altar. The reference to worshipers suggests this is the bronze altar in the courtyard, not the incense altar in the Holy Place, since only the priests were permitted inside the Holy Place (cf. Lk 1: 8– 10). † 11: 2 court which is outside. The court of the Gentiles, separated from the inner court in the Herodian temple by a low wall. Gentiles were forbidden to enter the inner court on penalty of death. That John is instructed not to measure the outer court symbolizes God’s rejection of the unbelieving Gentiles who have oppressed His covenant people. tread under foot the holy city. Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome all oppressed Jerusalem in ancient times (cf. 2Ki 25: 8– 10; Ps 79: 1; Is 63: 18; La 1: 10).
This verse refers to the future devastating destruction and oppression of Jerusalem by the forces of the Antichrist. forty-two months. This 3 1/ 2 year period covers the second half of the Tribulation and coincides with the visibly evil career of the Antichrist (v. 3; 12: 6; 13: 5). During this same time, the Jews will be sheltered by God in the wilderness (12: 6, 14). † 11: 3 two witnesses. Individuals granted special power and authority by God to preach a message of judgment and salvation during the second half of the Tribulation. The OT required two or more witnesses to confirm testimony (cf. Dt 17: 6; 19: 15; Mt 18: 16; Jn 8: 17; Heb 10: 28), and these two prophets will be the culmination of God’s testimony to Israel: a message of judgment from God and of His gracious offer of the gospel to all who will repent and believe. twelve hundred and sixty days. Forty-two months or 3 1/ 2 years (cf. 12: 6; 13: 5; see note on v. 2). sackcloth. Coarse, rough cloth made from goat or camel hair. Wearing garments made from it expressed penitence, humility, and mourning (cf. Ge 37: 34; 2Sa 3: 31; 2Ki 6: 30; 19: 1; Est 4: 1; Is 22: 12; Jer 6: 26; Mt 11: 21). The witnesses are mourning because of the wretched wickedness of the world, God’s judgment on it, and the desecration of the temple and the holy city by the Antichrist.

MacArthur, John (2006-04-11). The MacArthur Study Bible, NASB

When the Temple will be rebuilt is anybody's guess, but nobody that I have read believes it has anything to do with the antichrist covenant. I have read that the Jews have already fabricated the new Temple so that it can be put up very quickly. I don't know if this is true or not but if it is I would believe it would still take some time to construct considering the preparation that will be required before sitting the foundation.


Very wel documented, fat.  If you have read pevious posts on this thread, you've probably seen where I disagree with you in the time frame of the two witnesses, being in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, rather than the second 3.5 years of it.  The reason being, that in Rev.13:5, the Antichrist [beast out of the sea] will continue for 42 months, which follows the text in Rev.11:1-3.

Another point I would like to bring up, is the fact that the "he" of Dan.9:27, the Antichrist, confirms a seven year, firm agreement, i.e. covenant.  It is not one that he necessarily makes himself.

Happy new year to you.


Defacto
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 07:55:36 PM by Defacto »

Fat

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2017, 11:46:17 PM »

Very wel documented, fat.  If you have read pevious posts on this thread, you've probably seen where I disagree with you in the time frame of the two witnesses, being in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, rather than the second 3.5 years of it.  The reason being, that in Rev.13:5, the Antichrist [beast out of the sea] will continue for 42 months, which follows the text in Rev.11:1-3.

Another point I would like to bring up, is the fact that the "he" of Dan.9:27, the Antichrist, confirms a seven year, firm agreement, i.e. covenant.  It is not one that he necessarily makes himself.

Happy new year to you.


Defacto

We don't really disagree on the two wetnesses, I believe that they will be at the first half of the 7 years. When I was saying that "John MacArthur gets it right", I was referring to the Temple, a physical Temple, we know it will be present during the tribulation. It is because of the authority of two wetnesses that the sacrifice and offering can occur in the Temple. The question that we have no answer for, is the Temple built before the rapture or overnight after the rapture?

About the wetnesses

David Pepe

Quote
The key to understanding Daniel 9:27 is found in the 1260 day ministry of the Two Witnesses, which takes place in the first half of the seven year tribulation. Leave them out or diminish them and the whole prophetic text of Daniel 9:27 falls apart.

Two Witnesses who will begin the re-institution of the daily scarifies and oblations...


J. Dwight Pentecost

Quote
Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”
As J. Dwight Pentecost explains, "This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th 'seven.'" Antichrist will replace the legitimate, God-honoring Jewish worship system, which only the two witnesses can inaugurate, with his own system, namely, the abomination of desolation


Something else we should consider on the time line considering the two witnesses, there will be no one to wetness to in the last half.

Matt. 24:15-21
 
Quote
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2017, 08:43:31 AM »
We don't really disagree on the two wetnesses, I believe that they will be at the first half of the 7 years. When I was saying that "John MacArthur gets it right", I was referring to the Temple, a physical Temple, we know it will be present during the tribulation. It is because of the authority of two wetnesses that the sacrifice and offering can occur in the Temple. The question that we have no answer for, is the Temple built before the rapture or overnight after the rapture?

About the wetnesses

David Pepe


J. Dwight Pentecost


Something else we should consider on the time line considering the two witnesses, there will be no one to wetness to in the last half.

Matt. 24:15-21



Hi Fat

The 144,000 Israelite evangelists will be placed on earth by God, in Rev.7, the same way He will do so with the two witnesses, in Rev.11.  They will enter the scene at tne end of the sixth seal/the beginning of the seventh sel.  The results of their ministry, is the Great Multitude, in Rev.7.  The same ones who are recorded as the tribulation martyrs/saints in Rev.20:4.  Who will, when resurrected, serve as priests for Jesus and the Father, according to Rev.20:6, in the fourth temple Jesus will build, according to Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47.  During Jesus Millennial reign on earth, on the throne of David, fulfilling Acts 2:29-30 and 15:16, in the restored kingdom of Israel, fulfilling Mt.6:10 and Acts 1:6.

With reference to how many people will be left on earth at the end of the tribulation, there is more than seven billion now, for example, if the trib began now, and end at Jesus second coming, seven years later, with Israel alone, there will only be one third of them left, according to Zech.13:8.  If we were to use that formula, the population of those left on earth at the end of the trib, would be something like two and a third billion.  So it is safe to conclude, there will definitely be people on earth during the final 3.5 years of the trib.


Defacto

 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:47:54 AM by Defacto »

Fat

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2017, 03:58:41 PM »


Hi Fat

The 144,000 Israelite evangelists will be placed on earth by God, in Rev.7, the same way He will do so with the two witnesses, in Rev.11.  They will enter the scene at tne end of the sixth seal/the beginning of the seventh sel.  The results of their ministry, is the Great Multitude, in Rev.7.  The same ones who are recorded as the tribulation martyrs/saints in Rev.20:4.  Who will, when resurrected, serve as priests for Jesus and the Father, according to Rev.20:6, in the fourth temple Jesus will build, according to Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47.  During Jesus Millennial reign on earth, on the throne of David, fulfilling Acts 2:29-30 and 15:16, in the restored kingdom of Israel, fulfilling Mt.6:10 and Acts 1:6.

With reference to how many people will be left on earth at the end of the tribulation, there is more than seven billion now, for example, if the trib began now, and end at Jesus second coming, seven years later, with Israel alone, there will only be one third of them left, according to Zech.13:8.  If we were to use that formula, the population of those left on earth at the end of the trib, would be something like two and a third billion.  So it is safe to conclude, there will definitely be people on earth during the final 3.5 years of the trib.


Defacto

Defacto

We are talking about Jew in the last half of the week, I don't know what your post has to do with the discussion but I have seen that you do not address the issue directly and choose not to get into the kind of discussion you have been having on this forum.

Thank You for your time and have a good new year.

Defacto

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Re: There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2017, 08:57:41 PM »
Defacto

We are talking about Jew in the last half of the week, I don't know what your post has to do with the discussion but I have seen that you do not address the issue directly and choose not to get into the kind of discussion you have been having on this forum.

Thank You for your time and have a good new year.


My response to subject material addressed to me has always been relevant to the issue.  My regrets you fail to see that.


Defacto