Author Topic: Is the Bible truly God's Word?  (Read 2495 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« on: January 15, 2017, 07:26:08 am »
 Our answer to this question will not only determine how we view the Bible and its importance to our lives, but also it will ultimately have an eternal impact on us. If the Bible is truly God’s Word, then we should cherish it, study it, obey it, and fully trust it. If the Bible is the Word of God, then to dismiss it is to dismiss God Himself.

The fact that God gave us the Bible is an evidence and illustration of His love for us. The term “revelation” simply means that God communicated to mankind what He is like and how we can have a right relationship with Him. These are things that we could not have known had God not divinely revealed them to us in the Bible. Although God’s revelation of Himself in the Bible was given progressively over approximately 1500 years, it has always contained everything man needs to know about God in order to have a right relationship with Him. If the Bible is truly the Word of God, then it is the final authority for all matters of faith, religious practice, and morals.

The question we must ask ourselves is how can we know that the Bible is the Word of God and not just a good book? What is unique about the Bible that sets it apart from all other religious books ever written? Is there any evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word? These types of questions must be seriously examined if we are to determine the validity of the Bible’s claim to be the very Word of God, divinely inspired, and totally sufficient for all matters of faith and practice. There can be no doubt that the Bible does claim to be the very Word of God. This is clearly seen in Paul’s commendation to Timothy: “… from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:15-17).

There are both internal and external evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word. The internal evidences are those things within the Bible that testify of its divine origin. One of the first internal evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word is seen in its unity. Even though it is really sixty-six individual books, written on three continents, in three different languages, over a period of approximately 1500 years, by more than 40 authors who came from many walks of life, the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without contradiction. This unity is unique from all other books and is evidence of the divine origin of the words which God moved men to record.

Another of the internal evidences that indicates the Bible is truly God’s Word is the prophecies contained within its pages. The Bible contains hundreds of detailed prophecies relating to the future of individual nations including Israel, certain cities, and mankind. Other prophecies concern the coming of One who would be the Messiah, the Savior of all who would believe in Him. Unlike the prophecies found in other religious books or those by men such as Nostradamus, biblical prophecies are extremely detailed. There are over three hundred prophecies concerning Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. Not only was it foretold where He would be born and His lineage, but also how He would die and that He would rise again. There simply is no logical way to explain the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible other than by divine origin. There is no other religious book with the extent or type of predictive prophecy that the Bible contains.

A third internal evidence of the divine origin of the Bible is its unique authority and power. While this evidence is more subjective than the first two, it is no less a powerful testimony of the divine origin of the Bible. The Bible’s authority is unlike any other book ever written. This authority and power are best seen in the way countless lives have been transformed by the supernatural power of God’s Word. Drug addicts have been cured by it, homosexuals set free by it, derelicts and deadbeats transformed by it, hardened criminals reformed by it, sinners rebuked by it, and hate turned to love by it. The Bible does possess a dynamic and transforming power that is only possible because it is truly God’s Word.

There are also external evidences that indicate the Bible is truly the Word of God. One is the historicity of the Bible. Because the Bible details historical events, its truthfulness and accuracy are subject to verification like any other historical document. Through both archaeological evidences and other writings, the historical accounts of the Bible have been proven time and time again to be accurate and true. In fact, all the archaeological and manuscript evidence supporting the Bible makes it the best-documented book from the ancient world. The fact that the Bible accurately and truthfully records historically verifiable events is a great indication of its truthfulness when dealing with religious subjects and doctrines and helps substantiate its claim to be the very Word of God.

Another external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the integrity of its human authors. As mentioned earlier, God used men from many walks of life to record His words. In studying the lives of these men, we find them to be honest and sincere. The fact that they were willing to die often excruciating deaths for what they believed testifies that these ordinary yet honest men truly believed God had spoken to them. The men who wrote the New Testament and many hundreds of other believers (1 Corinthians 15:6) knew the truth of their message because they had seen and spent time with Jesus Christ after He had risen from the dead. Seeing the risen Christ had a tremendous impact on them. They went from hiding in fear to being willing to die for the message God had revealed to them. Their lives and deaths testify to the fact that the Bible truly is God’s Word.

A final external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the indestructibility of the Bible. Because of its importance and its claim to be the very Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. From early Roman Emperors like Diocletian, through communist dictators and on to modern-day atheists and agnostics, the Bible has withstood and outlasted all of its attackers and is still today the most widely published book in the world.

Throughout time, skeptics have regarded the Bible as mythological, but archeology has confirmed it as historical. Opponents have attacked its teaching as primitive and outdated, but its moral and legal concepts and teachings have had a positive influence on societies and cultures throughout the world. It continues to be attacked by pseudo-science, psychology, and political movements, yet it remains just as true and relevant today as it was when it was first written. It is a book that has transformed countless lives and cultures throughout the last 2000 years. No matter how its opponents try to attack, destroy, or discredit it, the Bible remains; its veracity and impact on lives is unmistakable. The accuracy which has been preserved despite every attempt to corrupt, attack, or destroy it is clear testimony to the fact that the Bible is truly God’s Word and is supernaturally protected by Him. It should not surprise us that, no matter how the Bible is attacked, it always comes out unchanged and unscathed. After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31). After looking at the evidence, one can say without a doubt that, yes, the Bible is truly God’s Word.

Recommended Resources:Making Sense of Bible Difficulties: Clear and Concise Answers from Genesis to Revelation by Geisler & HoweandLogos Bible Software.

By: S. Michael Houdmann  CEO of gotquestions.org.


Defacto

Frank T

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 12:20:02 am »
This is all the proof you really need:
Quote
There are both internal and external evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word. The internal evidences are those things within the Bible that testify of its divine origin. One of the first internal evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word is seen in its unity. Even though it is really sixty-six individual books, written on three continents, in three different languages, over a period of approximately 1500 years, by more than 40 authors who came from many walks of life, the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without contradiction. This unity is unique from all other books and is evidence of the divine origin of the words which God moved men to record.

The prophecies are icing on the cake. There are some that will say that we can't prove that Christ ever existed, but we can. The new testament was written when thousands of people had seen Him at the teens that are talked about in the scriptures. If they knew they were false statements they would have spoken up at that time. Over 500 people saw Christ after His resurrection, would not one of them speak out if it were not true?

obi_donkenobi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 08:24:42 pm »
>>Defacto: I would say not, if you only consider that if there was a truly all-powerful/knowing/benevolent/and otherwise perfect God, He would know that trusting imperfect humans to convey His intentions into text and language that changes and becomes archaic over time would be foolish, especially with eternal damnation at stake. It's much more likely that humans created gods (they've done it hundreds of times over the ages) and that the Bible is so vague it has generated over 30,000 sects of Christianity because none of you can agree all together on any one thing the Bible says. Kill gays, keep slaves, handle snakes, stone unruly children - the list goes on and on, and some of you say 'yes' to these things while others say 'no.' Who's to say which of you is correct?

>>Frank T: As I understand it, the Bible has dozens if not hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions (https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html). And biblical prophecies are so vague, they're not really prophecies. A *real* prophecy would list exact dates, names and actions. For example: On May 7th, 2035 at 10:32am, Carl Solling will become the youngest person to ever win the United States Presidency at the age of 38 years old. Now THAT'S a prophecy. See https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies to find out about all the unfulfilled prophecies and the ones that were written *after* the events occurred. Also, if I go to a restaurant and order a burger and fries, and they show up a few minutes later, was that a prophecy? The point being: if a prediction is made and people work toward achieving it, was it miraculous?

Oh, one other thing. Just because the Bible says something happened doesn't mean it did. By that logic, Gandalf defeated the Balrog, or Harry Potter conjured a patronus. You can't use a source to verify itself - it makes no logical sense, especially when the authors of those sixty-six books were anonymous.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 12:19:33 am by obi_donkenobi »

macuser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 01:44:54 am »
>>Defacto: I would say not, if you only consider that if there was a truly all-powerful/knowing/benevolent/and otherwise perfect God, He would know that trusting imperfect humans to convey His intentions into text and language that changes and becomes archaic over time would be foolish, especially with eternal damnation at stake. It's much more likely that humans created gods (they've done it hundreds of times over the ages) and that the Bible is so vague it has generated over 30,000 sects of Christianity because none of you can agree all together on any one thing the Bible says. Kill gays, keep slaves, handle snakes, stone unruly children - the list goes on and on, and some of you say 'yes' to these things while others say 'no.' Who's to say which of you is correct?

>>Frank T: As I understand it, the Bible has dozens if not hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions (https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html). And biblical prophecies are so vague, they're not really prophecies. A *real* prophecy would list exact dates, names and actions. For example: On May 7th, 2035 at 10:32am, Carl Solling will become the youngest person to ever win the United States Presidency at the age of 38 years old. Now THAT'S a prophecy. See https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies to find out about all the unfulfilled prophecies and the ones that were written *after* the events occurred. Also, if I go to a restaurant and order a burger and fries, and they show up a few minutes later, was that a prophecy? The point being: if a prediction is made and people work toward achieving it, was it miraculous?

Oh, one other thing. Just because the Bible says something happened doesn't mean it did. By that logic, Gandalf defeated the Balrog, or Harry Potter conjured a patronus. You can't use a source to verify itself - it makes no logical sense, especially when the authors of those sixty-six books were anonymous.

First the if you study the Bible you would find that God did not trust any man to "convey His intentions into text", you should study up on the Holy Ghost as He is described in the Scripture. Now if you don't believe it, that's fine but don't try to MOCK something you don't understand and obviously never even tried to understand.

Second let's look at bible Prophecies of Jesus (excuse the cut and paste but I tired it's 0124 hrs here.

Prophecies of Jesus
Although this list is not exhaustive, you'll find 44 messianic predictions clearly fulfilled in Jesus Christ, along with supporting references from the Old Testament and New Testament fulfillment.

44 Messianic Prophecies of Jesus
  Prophecies of Jesus   Old Testament Scripture
  Fulfillment of Prophecies New Testament Scripture


1   Messiah would be born of a woman.   Genesis 3:15   Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4

2   Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.   Micah 5:2   Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6

3   Messiah would be born of a virgin.   Isaiah 7:14   Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31

4   Messiah would come from the line of Abraham.   Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18
   Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5

5   Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac.   Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12
   Luke 3:34
6   Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob.   Numbers 24:17   Matthew 1:2
7   Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah.   Genesis 49:10   Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14

8   Messiah would be heir to King David's throne.   2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7
   Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3

9   Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal.   Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44
   Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12

10   Messiah would be called Immanuel.   Isaiah 7:14   Matthew 1:23
11   Messiah would spend a season in Egypt.   Hosea 11:1   Matthew 2:14-15
12   A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace.   Jeremiah 31:15   Matthew 2:16-18
13   A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah   Isaiah 40:3-5   Luke 3:3-6
14   Messiah would be rejected by his own people.   Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3
   John 1:11
John 7:5

15   Messiah would be a prophet.   Deuteronomy 18:15   Acts 3:20-22
16   Messiah would be preceded by Elijah.   Malachi 4:5-6   Matthew 11:13-14
17   Messiah would be declared the Son of God.   Psalm 2:7   Matthew 3:16-17
18   Messiah would be called a Nazarene.   Isaiah 11:1   Matthew 2:23
19   Messiah would bring light to Galilee.   Isaiah 9:1-2   Matthew 4:13-16
20   Messiah would speak in parables.   Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10
   Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35
21   Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted.   Isaiah 61:1-2   Luke 4:18-19
22   Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek.   Psalm 110:4   Hebrews 5:5-6
23   Messiah would be called King.   Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9
   Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11

24   Messiah would be praised by little children.   Psalm 8:2   Matthew 21:16
25   Messiah would be betrayed.   Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13
   Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-16

26   Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field.   Zechariah 11:12-13   Matthew 27:9-10
27   Messiah would be falsely accused.   Psalm 35:11   Mark 14:57-58
28   Messiah would be silent before his accusers.   Isaiah 53:7   Mark 15:4-5
29   Messiah would be spat upon and struck.   Isaiah 50:6   Matthew 26:67
30   Messiah would be hated without cause.   Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4
   John 15:24-25
31   Messiah would be crucified with criminals.   Isaiah 53:12   Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28

32   Messiah would be given vinegar to drink.   Psalm 69:21   Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30

33   Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced.   Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10
   John 20:25-27
34   Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed.   Psalm 22:7-8   Luke 23:35
35   Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments.   Psalm 22:18   Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-36

36   Messiah's bones would not be broken.   Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20
   John 19:33-36
37   Messiah would be forsaken by God.   Psalm 22:1   Matthew 27:46
38   Messiah would pray for his enemies.   Psalm 109:4   Luke 23:34
39   Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side.   Zechariah 12:10   John 19:34
40   Messiah would be buried with the rich.   Isaiah 53:9   Matthew 27:57-60
41   Messiah would resurrect from the dead.   Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15   
Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32

42   Messiah would ascend to heaven.   Psalm 24:7-10   Mark 16:19
Luke 24:51

43   Messiah would be seated at God's right hand.   Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1   
Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:44
44   Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin.   Isaiah 53:5-12   Romans 5:6-8


Sources
100 Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus: Messianic Prophecies Made Before the Birth of Christ by Rose Publishing

obi_donkenobi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 01:45:58 pm »
>>macuser: When did I "mock" anything? If you're taking my honest questions as mocking, then I think you're misinterpreting me. Example:
Me: "What time is it?"
Joe: "It's 3:47pm."
Me: "Are you sure? I thought it was already past four."
Joe: "Are you mocking me?"
Wouldn't you think Joe is being a little sensitive? I'm trying very hard to keep this if not friendly, then at least civil. If I offended you, I apologize, but at least specify exactly how I did so, so that I can correct myself for the future.

Just because I'm questioning things does not mean I'm mocking them, right?

Now, about those prophecies: they're from the Bible. What makes you think the Bible is true or accurate? The Bible's authors are anonymous - we don't know who wrote them, and there's no corroborating writings from the historians of the Bible's time (of which there are at least 15) who mention anything about any of the Bible's contents. Now, there are historians who came as early as about 70 years later who do make brief mentions about Jesus, but they weren't eyewitnesses to the Bible's claims, weren't saying they had heard anything from eyewitnesses and were merely writing about what people of their own time were saying. Doesn't the lack of corroboration put the claims of the Bible in question?

And finally, one cannot fairly use a source to confirm itself. It would be like saying, Harry Potter could indeed produce a patronus in real life (a magical entity representing one's self) because it says he did it in the third Harry Potter book.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 01:59:11 pm by obi_donkenobi »

macuser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 06:42:17 pm »




Quote
>>macuser: When did I "mock" anything? If you're taking my honest questions as mocking, then I think you're misinterpreting me. Example:
Me: "What time is it?"
Joe: "It's 3:47pm."
Me: "Are you sure? I thought it was already past four."
Joe: "Are you mocking me?"
Wouldn't you think Joe is being a little sensitive? I'm trying very hard to keep this if not friendly, then at least civil. If I offended you, I apologize, but at least specify exactly how I did so, so that I can correct myself for the future.

Just because I'm questioning things does not mean I'm mocking them, right?

For instance you posted a link that is supposed to show the inconsistencies of the Bible. I'm not going to go through the whole list there compiled by Donald Morgan, but let’s take the first example at the inconsistency and how atheist like to use deceit.

This is what the website says:


GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

Here is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:3. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Genesis 1:14. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15. and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; [He made] the stars also. 17. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18. and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.


WOW!!!! It’s a whole deferent ball game. Greater light and lesser light, reminds me of some people.




Quote
Now, about those prophecies: they're from the Bible. What makes you think the Bible is true or accurate? The Bible's authors are anonymous - we don't know who wrote them, and there's no corroborating writings from the historians of the Bible's time (of which there are at least 15) who mention anything about any of the Bible's contents. Now, there are historians who came as early as about 70 years later who do make brief mentions about Jesus, but they weren't eyewitnesses to the Bible's claims, weren't saying they had heard anything from eyewitnesses and were merely writing about what people of their own time were saying. Doesn't the lack of corroboration put the claims of the Bible in question?

And finally, one cannot fairly use a source to confirm itself. It would be like saying, Harry Potter could indeed produce a patronus in real life (a magical entity representing one's self) because it says he did it in the third Harry Potter book.

Actually you can use a source that is written over a period of 1000s of years. The Old Testament was written long before the New Testament. The prophecies of the Old Testament concerning Christ were fulfilled 2000 years ago. The last book of the New Testament, I believe, was written 70 years after the death of Christ. When most of the New Testament was written the people who observed the events that were written about were still alive and undoubtedly would have objected if the letters written by the apostles were false. The only prophecies of Christ that have not yet come true are those concerning the end times, which seem to be approaching quickly. One of these prophecies happen in my lifetime, 1948 when Israel and Jerusalem again became a nation under control of the Jewish people.

So, how do you know your atheism is true?  Does it represent reality properly?  Does your denial of God's existence properly represent actuality?  If you cannot demonstrate that your atheism is true, then you are believing in something by faith, correct.

obi_donkenobi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Is the Bible truly God's Word?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 01:25:43 pm »
For instance you posted a link that is supposed to show the inconsistencies of the Bible. I'm not going to go through the whole list there compiled by Donald Morgan, but let’s take the first example at the inconsistency and how atheist like to use deceit.
This is what the website says:
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
Here is what the Bible says:
Genesis 1:3. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Genesis 1:14. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15. and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; [He made] the stars also. 17. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18. and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
WOW!!!! It’s a whole deferent ball game. Greater light and lesser light, reminds me of some people.
>>macuser: That's a bit broad and harsh, don't you think? I'm not trying to "deceive" you "like all atheists." If I'm mistaken, I'll admit it and retract what I've said. I'm always happy to be corrected and come closer to the truth. I will concede the alleged contradiction Morgan referenced (https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html) with regard to Gen 1:3-5 and Gen 1:14-19 is debatable, meaning it may or may not have merit depending on how it is interpreted. Indeed, Morgan does state in the two IMPORTANT notes at the top of that web page that the subjects listed, "are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible." In this specific case, I'll concede that the scripture is too vague to be definitely called a contradiction, and won't adhere to it specifically in the future as an argument against God, though it does seem wrong for both light and darkness to have to be manually created, rather than occurring as the natural result of demonstrable physical processes.

But that was the first of well over 400 contradictions/inconsistencies listed. Do you really want to tear each one apart, or could you concede that there are problems with the Bible? Remember: over 30,000 different sects of Christianity is proof positive that the Bible can't be perfect. If it were really perfect, there would be only one version of the religion and conflicting interpretations would be impossible. Shouldn't God be capable of doing that?

And did I detect a mocking insult in that last line? I got the Administrator's note of your complaint that I was mocking you. But don't worry, I'm incredibly thick-skinned and won't complain. Mock, insult, demean as much and as harsh as you like. I'll just assume you're just having fun and laugh, though I promise not to respond in kind. Also, I asked you to tell me exactly how I mocked you, but you didn't respond. I'd still like to know.

Quote
Actually you can use a source that is written over a period of 1000s of years. The Old Testament was written long before the New Testament. The prophecies of the Old Testament concerning Christ were fulfilled 2000 years ago. The last book of the New Testament, I believe, was written 70 years after the death of Christ. When most of the New Testament was written the people who observed the events that were written about were still alive and undoubtedly would have objected if the letters written by the apostles were false. The only prophecies of Christ that have not yet come true are those concerning the end times, which seem to be approaching quickly. One of these prophecies happen in my lifetime, 1948 when Israel and Jerusalem again became a nation under control of the Jewish people.
I would have to disagree that you can use the Bible to confirm the Bible. First and foremost, because its authors are anonymous and therefore unable to be corroborated or otherwise validated. What if the biblical authors were all today's equivalents of fiction story writers? And biblical prophecies are so vague, they're not really prophecies. A real prophecy would list exact dates, names and actions. For example: On Feb 11th, 2035 at 10:32am, Carl Solling will become the youngest person to ever win the United States Presidency at the age of 38 years old. Now THAT'S a prophecy. See https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies to find out about all the unfulfilled prophecies and the ones that were written after the events occurred. Also, if I go to a restaurant and order a burger and fries, and they show up a few minutes later, was that a prophecy? The point being (specifically concerning the Israel/Jerusalem prophecy): if a prediction is made and people work toward achieving it, was it miraculous?

Add to that, that many of the stories, characters and events told in the Bible likely come from the nearby cultures preceding it. From historian Richard Carrier:

Chronological trend in action: Eleusinian and Dionysian mysteries combined Hellenistic elements with Phoenician (Western Syria). The mysteries of Attis and Cybele combined Hellenistic elements with Phrygian (Northern Turkey). The mysteries of Jupiter Dolichenus combined Hellenistic elements with Anatolian (Western Turkey). The mysteries of Mithras combined Hellenistic elements with Persian (Iran). The mysteries of Isis and Osiris combined Hellenistic elements with Egyptian. Christianity combined Hellenistic elements with Jewish (Israel/Palestine). They are all: "Savior gods," and were "an offspring" of God. They all undergo a "passion." They all obtain victory over death, which they share with their followers. And they all have stories about them set in human history on Earth.

Story elements from middle-eastern cultures, including Hellenism, Eleusinian, Dionysian, Phoenician, Phrygian, Anatolian, Persian, Egyptian, and Judaean have been incorporated into Christianity.


Did you know any of this?

Quote
So, how do you know your atheism is true?  Does it represent reality properly?  Does your denial of God's existence properly represent actuality?  If you cannot demonstrate that your atheism is true, then you are believing in something by faith, correct.
Please listen carefully, as it does get somewhat tedious having to repeat it all the time. Like most atheists, it isn't my position that there is no god or gods; maybe there is or are. I am simply un-convinced that your claim for a Christian God is true. I am not making a positive claim - I am doubting your claim. As the one making the positive claim, you now have the Burden of Proof to show such a thing exists in reality, and I'm pretty certain you can't. Some atheists are what are called "gnostic" or "strong" atheists. They do state "there is no god or gods," but in stating that, they put themselves in the same epistemic boat as theists - they cannot prove their claim, either. Well, except for certain, more simplistic versions of God, such as an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent and perfect God. That one just cannot logically exist, like a square circle or a married bachelor. I can explain that further, if you'd like.

Now let me ask you this: If you were born, raised and lived in India, do you think it likely you would believe in the Hindu gods, Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma? Why do you believe in the Christian God? How can you tell whether you've chosen the right god?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:19:41 am by obi_donkenobi »