Author Topic: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8  (Read 2332 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« on: January 20, 2017, 09:21:57 am »
Matthew 28:19 refuted by the Scriptures!

http://matthew2819-blog.blogspot.com/2010/07/what-is-original-wording-of-matthew.http

Authenticity of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8 reviewed:


KJV:
Mt.28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

 The short and conclusive answer to Mt.28:19 being altered and 1 Jn.5:7 being inserted is the following:
 
Jesus would never have referred to His Father and the Holy Spirit as separate entities, because He knew the Holy Spirit is His Father - one and the same person, not two!  See the following evidence for yourselves:

God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Jn.4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

God is Holy Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact God is the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus according to Mt.1:20; Lk.1:35 and Acts 13:33. One essence/person, not two!
 
1. What is God? He is Spirit, according to Jesus, in Jn.4:24 and Paul, in 2 Cor.3:17-18. That no one has ever seen Him and that He is invisible, are found in Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; Heb.11:27 and in 1 Jn.4:12. [Moses, Abraham and Jacob saw the pre-incarnate Jesus, not God, the invisible Holy Spirit].
 
2. God, who is Spirit according to the Scriptures, is also Holy, according to Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.
 
Therefore, according to the above Scriptural facts above, it becomes clear why Mt.28:19 as found in our Bibles today is an alteration from that which was originally written by the author. Jesus would never have made a statement like the present day translation, because He knew very well His Father was/is the Holy Spirit, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk,1:35. Jesus stated that His Father lived in Him doing His work, in Jn.14:10, clearly revealing His Father to be the Holy Spirit.
 
In addition, the practice of baptism by the Apostles, was always in the name of Jesus Christ, confirming the prophecy of John the Baptist, in Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33, as found in Acts 2:38. Never in the triune theology Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - for the above Scriptural reasons.
 
With reference to 1 Jn.5:7; it is a late Latin insert of about the 12th century and does not appear in any of the early Greek mss.
 
 
Johannine Comma Authenticity: 1 Jn.5:7,8

KJV:
7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the

Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one.

8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and
the water and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The following scholars reject the Johannine Comma as its main support are from Latin texts;

1. Scrivener, F.H.A. A Plain Introduction to N.T. Criticism. Vol.2. p42-3.
2. Dabney, R.L. The Doctrinal Various readings of the N.T. Greek. Discussions:
Evangelical & Theological. 1891. Vol.1. p350-390.
3. Maynard, M. A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8. p265
4. Hills, Op. Cit. p209-12.
5. Bultmann, R. 1973. The Johannine Epistles. Phila. Fortress Press. p81.
6. Clarke’s Commentary. N.Y. Abingdon Cokesbury Press. p931-33.
7. Nolan, F. 1815. An Inquiry into the Integrity of the Greek Vulgate…London

From: http://go2ifbc.com/Professors_Article_files/Johannine_Comma.pdf

The basic reason for 1 Jn.5:7-8 being a late insert is for the following reasons:
 
God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; 4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

And the Spirit of God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact God is the Holy Spirit.

Therefore there is also no option to the fact the Holy Spirit is also the Father of Jesus according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35

The term father is the title all men receive when they have produced children of their own as the Holy Spirit did in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35 when He produced the human Jesus by the virgin Mary.

According to the above Scriptural facts, God, who is the Holy Spirit, is the Father of Jesus, as documented in the following Scriptures:  Ps.2:7; 2 Sam.7:14; 1 Chr,17:13; 1 Pet.1:3; 2 Cor.1:3 and Eph.1:3.

Therefore, according to the Scriptures, God is the Father, His title, who is the Holy Spirit and the Son, who is Jesus. Two persons - not three that equals one.



Defacto
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 09:32:23 am by Defacto »

Moss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 11:40:23 am »
Is it true that 1 John 5:7 is not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s?

http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/1john57.asp



The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8


What About 1 John 5:7?


It makes no deference if you believe that was as translated in the KJV or not, the rest of the bible confirms that the Trinity is One.

Moss

Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 07:07:31 pm »
Is it true that 1 John 5:7 is not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s?

http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/1john57.asp



The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8


What About 1 John 5:7?


It makes no deference if you believe that was as translated in the KJV or not, the rest of the bible confirms that the Trinity is One.

Moss


Show me where the Bible, Jesus or His disciples ever taught the Trinity.


Defacto

Moss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 11:52:20 pm »

Show me where the Bible, Jesus or His disciples ever taught the Trinity.


Defacto

 The Creation (Genesis 1:1, 2;  John 1:1-3).

The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2).

The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20).

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Moss

Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 05:07:35 am »
The Creation (Genesis 1:1, 2;  John 1:1-3).

The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2).

The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20).

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Moss


You didn't read the OP, or you would know that God is the Holy Spirit, and Father is His title, according to the Scriptures.  Father is the same title all men have after producing children.  You have proven nothing.  Two persons, not three.

Review the Biblical description of God and origin of Jesus Christ in the following:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/3265768/The-Biblical-Description-of-God#.WINeWVw8aXA


Defacto
aka Quasar
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 05:18:34 am by Defacto »

Moss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2017, 08:57:41 am »

You didn't read the OP, or you would know that God is the Holy Spirit, and Father is His title, according to the Scriptures.  Father is the same title all men have after producing children.  You have proven nothing.  Two persons, not three.

Review the Biblical description of God and origin of Jesus Christ in the following:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/3265768/The-Biblical-Description-of-God#.WINeWVw8aXA


Defacto
aka Quasar

You deny Christ deity, then I suppose that your Christ was not good.

Mark 10:18

 Sevior that is not good is not a savior it is unblemished.

Moss


Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2017, 07:48:03 pm »
You deny Christ deity, then I suppose that your Christ was not good.

Mark 10:18

 Sevior that is not good is not a savior it is unblemished.

Moss


No!  I do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ!  You failed to read WHEN Jesus became the Son of God/God the Son in the material I have posted.  You have yet to show me where the Bible, Jesus or His disciples ever taught the Trinity!  Review the following Scriptural support for Jesus deity:  Ps.45:7-8; 110:1; Jn.1:1 and Heb.1:8-9.

Surprising critique of the Trinity:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/14336449/Surprising-admissions-that-the-Trinity-isnt-in-the-Bible#.WIQwnVw8aXA


Defacto
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:14:51 pm by Defacto »

admin

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 197
Re: Critique of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7-8
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 12:02:06 am »
John 1:1

You're done here.

Admin Dude

Just like to add rules set by are good friend Quasar on his forum, note rule #3:

Quote
Rules and Code of Conduct for Members
1. One sign up account per person.
2. Members are not to attack other members, It is understood that not all will agree with the opinion of others but criticism is expected to be carried out on an intelligent level. This applies to all faiths.
3. As a Christian forum there are many questions about the Scriptures, Faith and God, we encourage your questions and discussions about them. But we do not condone members to knowingly post misinformation or falsehoods about the Scripture. Disagreement with the scriptures are expected and criticism is a part of a discussion forum but blatant hate serves no one If this occurs the member will be warned and the post deleted.
4. Linking quotes in your discussions as a reference, only if it relates to the discussion on hand.
5. No spamming or advertising is permitted o this forum.
6. Do not use vulgarity, offensive nick names, attack/insult a poster, Intelligent criticism for a specific reason is expected but degrading is out.
7. Users that attempt to interfere with Christian discussion will be suspended or directed to appropriate board. We want to give people honest answers to specific questions without the threads getting bogged down in a deluge of mocking.Please stick to the topic of the forum.
8. Do not be divisive or inflammatory just for the sake of ridiculing another poster.
9. No arguing with the Moderators without just cause on the forums. You have a personal message system to voice your complaints without clogging up the forum with useless posts that concern no one but the parties involved.
10. Personal profiles pages are provided for you to let people know who you are, through relationship we grow our community, update you personal page and bio and let other members know who they are talking to.
11. Violation of any of the above will receive a warning. Should it occur a second time, a member will be temporarily suspended or banned unless other remedial measures are implimented.
12. Thank you all for helping us keep our forum acceptable to the Lord and to each other.
If who wish to contact management of this web site for any reason, go to "messages," click on it and send me your message.


God Bless you all!

Quasar
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:19:15 pm by admin »