Author Topic: The Jewish creed of Jesus.  (Read 1704 times)

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AFB1935

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The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« on: July 25, 2016, 03:34:32 AM »
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 Vol. 27 p. 294:
Quote
"Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian (believing in one God). The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”

The striking quotation above about the complex route from the NT to the council of Nicea raises this interesting question. 

How do Christians justify their obvious departure from the Jewish unitarian creed of Jesus?

And how can Christianity really be Christianity if it abandons Christ at the most fundamental level of defining GOD?

macuser

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 07:07:43 AM »
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 Vol. 27 p. 294:
The striking quotation above about the complex route from the NT to the council of Nicea raises this interesting question. 

How do Christians justify their obvious departure from the Jewish unitarian creed of Jesus?

And how can Christianity really be Christianity if it abandons Christ at the most fundamental level of defining GOD?

Hello AFB

If I remember my scriptures, it was the Jews who abandoned Christ. I have read a few of your post, why is it that you quote man more than God?

AFB1935

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 03:54:59 AM »
Thanks, please tell me whether Deut 6:5; Mark 12:29 is unitarian or trinitarian?

You are assuming that the church maintained the faith or did it perhaps not?


macuser

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 10:00:03 AM »
O' I see you don't answer questions you only give them.

You have put restrictions on God I have not. My God can hand down commandments to  Moses while taking the form of a burning bush, or  negotiate with Abraham while in the form of a human.  My god can be in the past and the future at the same time, He can be in heaven and on earth at the same time. He can be talking to someone in Brazil at the same time talking to someone in Africa .

MY GOD CAN NOT BE LIMITED.


 I don't presume anything, I read the Scriptures and they tell me that the Jews turned their back on Christ and nailed to the cross.

 Peace
Mac

Fat

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 05:35:51 PM »
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 Vol. 27 p. 294:
The striking quotation above about the complex route from the NT to the council of Nicea raises this interesting question. 

How do Christians justify their obvious departure from the Jewish unitarian creed of Jesus?

And how can Christianity really be Christianity if it abandons Christ at the most fundamental level of defining GOD?

Tell me were the Jews right when they question Jesus's power to forgive sin?



Mark 2:7 Why does He speak like this? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."


If Christ was/is a created being, does He have the right to forgive sins?

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,)Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

AFB1935

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 05:44:20 AM »
O' I see you don't answer questions you only give them.

You have put restrictions on God I have not. My God can hand down commandments to  Moses while taking the form of a burning bush, or  negotiate with Abraham while in the form of a human.  My god can be in the past and the future at the same time, He can be in heaven and on earth at the same time. He can be talking to someone in Brazil at the same time talking to someone in Africa .

MY GOD CAN NOT BE LIMITED.

Thanks, but you have given no answer. Scripture is given in intellgible words and we will be judged by the words of Scripture.

So then what is the meaning of Mark 12:29 by which we shall be judged!
Trinitarian or unitarian proposition.

I don't presume anything, I read the Scriptures and they tell me that the Jews turned their back on Christ and nailed to the cross.

 Peace
Mac

AFB1935

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 06:17:18 AM »
Tell me were the Jews right when they question Jesus's power to forgive sin?



Mark 2:7 Why does He speak like this? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."


If Christ was/is a created being, does He have the right to forgive sins?

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,)Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Jesus gave the right to forgive sins and of course God can empower whoever he likes to forgive sins, including the Messiah.

First establish who GOD is, and Mk 12:29 tell us all!

Fat

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 07:19:01 AM »
Jesus gave the right to forgive sins and of course God can empower whoever he likes to forgive sins, including the Messiah.

First establish who GOD is, and Mk 12:29 tell us all!

Jesus gave the Right to who?

AFB1935

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 03:39:06 AM »
John 20.23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any they are retained.”

Fat

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 07:36:24 AM »
John 20.23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any they are retained.”

 Christ taught over and over and over again that we are to forgive those who trespass against us. No one not even the pope as he authority to forgive sins against God. Christ and The Father are one.

The Pope is not the Holy Father ( John 17 )
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 07:20:31 PM by Fat »

JJ483

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2016, 04:23:38 AM »
Jesus gave the right to forgive sins and of course God can empower whoever he likes to forgive sins, including the Messiah.

First establish who GOD is, and Mk 12:29 tell us all!

The Word/Jesus gives us the answer in the Book of Isaiah:
16)  Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning: from the time that it was, there Am I: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath send Me.
17)  Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel I Am the LORD God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 48:16-17


Although I know many Christian believe that I John 5:7 is spurious the fact that Cyprian quotes it in 250 AD, way before the time that are oldest and best manuscripts took most of this verse out, IMO gives us great reason to trust that it is truly authentic. For there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these Three are One.  I John 5:7  As for myself I will not only believe man's witness spoken of in I John 5:8-9 referred to us by the Apostle John see John 19:30-37.  But I will also believe in the Godhead/Trinity (see Colossians 2:9) witness given in Matthew 3:16-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22 along with John 1:29-34 referred to in I John 5:7,9.

We Christian who believe in the Trinity don't believe in 3 separate Gods, but in 3 Beings who form One United Godhead.  Just like the United States has 1 Federal Government, yet 3 branches each branch is the government but not 3 separate government unto themselves.

Xuan

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Re: The Jewish creed of Jesus.
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 05:56:08 AM »
Thanks, please tell me whether Deut 6:5; Mark 12:29 is unitarian or trinitarian?

They are Trinitarian.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
(4) Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
(5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (NASB)

Mark 12:29-30
(29) Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
(30) AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ (NASB)

The only one God of Deuteronomy 6:4 and Mark 12:29 is to be prayed unto (cf. Deuteronomy 6:5 and Mark 12:30), and since the Lord Jesus is properly prayed unto this necessitates that the one God of Deuteronomy 6:4 and Mark 12:29 encompasses the Lord Jesus.

1. Richard N. Longenecker: There is no commandment in the Jewish Scriptures that says simply "Thou shalt pray!" Rather, what one finds is a verse like Deut 11:13, which calls on Israel "to love the Lord your God and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul." The rabbis of the Talmud asked about this verse: "What kind of service is it that takes place in the heart"? And they answered their own question: "It is prayer!" (b. Ta' anith 2a) (Studies in Paul, Exegetical and Theological, page 33).
2. The Jewish Encyclopedia (1901): The word "tefillah" is defined as "thought" and "hope" (comp. Genesis 48:11), as representing the means of reasoning and discriminating (Comp. Exodus 9:4) between good and evil. A tefillah consists of two parts: (1) Benedictions, or praises of God's greatness and goodness, and expressions of gratitude for benefits received (2) petitions, of either a public or private character. A tefillah is called a "service of the heart." "Ye shall serve the Lord your God" (Exodus 23:25) is understood as "Ye sall worship God in prayer." The Patriarchs were the first authors of prayers, and are credited with instituting those for the morning, afternoon, and evening (see Abudarham, "Ḥ ibbur Perush ha-Berakot weha-Tefillot," p. 8a, Venice, 1566). Moses was the author of the phrase, "a great God, a mighty, and a terrible" (Deuteronomy 10:17), which was incorporated into the opening of the ' Amidah (Yer. Ber. 7:3 Yoma 69b). David and Daniel prayed thrice daily (Psalm 55:17 Daniel 6:10). (Prayer, see "In Rabbinical Literature", the underlined is mine).
https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/tje/p/prayer.html