Author Topic: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'  (Read 401 times)

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fredjames

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'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« on: December 18, 2017, 01:45:38 AM »
Brethren, in church and at street ministries do we 'stand', 'sit' or 'kneel' when we pray.....?

And what did JESUS teach in regards....?

macuser

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 11:32:30 AM »
Prayer being worship:


For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."  (Romans 14:11, NASB)

But we are advised to be in continuous communion with our Lord. Did Christ pray on the cross?

Moss

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 01:04:33 PM »
Prayer being worship:


For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."  (Romans 14:11, NASB)

But we are advised to be in continuous communion with our Lord. Did Christ pray on the cross?

To your point.

pray without ceasing;  (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

fredjames

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 01:11:01 AM »
What about the prayers JESUS taught to His disciples to continue with...?

And what about the other 'posture' like, 'stand' and 'sit' when we pray, and what did JESUS teach us in regards....?

Moss

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 08:02:17 AM »
If you are asking for examples and not directed teaching there are only two that comes to mind the cross and “He fell to His face”. He also usually went to a high place to pray. You have been instructed to pray in private.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 09:57:08 AM by Moss »

fredjames

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 12:07:07 AM »
What about the prayers JESUS taught to His disciples to continue with...?

When the disciples ask JESUS to teach them how to pray, JESUS said, "Pray like this, ............" And that's the daily prayer we recite from in our private and church meetings. Nevertheless, when he said, "Pray like this, .........", meaning in spiritual wisdom one can extend themselves in prayers from that initially CHRIST has taught and given as just a foundation to begin with.

He also taught them in the same Gospel, as testified by them, to pray to GOD for the nation Israel, even of today; "GOD save Israel from all of it's troubles."   

And, "Since the harvest is plenty, pray to the LORD/MASTER of the harvest, to send forth His servants/workers, to bring in the harvest." And this i believe and have faith, till today the Gospel is to be likewise preached and taught to all nation, kindred and tongue.

And, "Pray to GOD for Israel, that during the day of the 'horrible thing', Israel do not have escape during winter or Sabbath." And this i believe and have faith, when Israel will go through 'The Great tribulation', as to say the 'horrible thing', with half of the Christians left behind as well.

And apart from those who have shared theirs wisdom here Scripturally sticking to the topic and tread, JESUS also taught, "Pray to GOD that you will be counted worthy to escape tribulation." and this i believe and have faith, this is when initially Christians are punished and persecuted for their faith sake, and those who going to face the first Tribulation during the reign of 'Anti-CHRIST', for three and a half years before the ascension where half of the  Christians will be taken up to meet the LORD in the cloud. And henceforth 'The Great Tribulation' of GOD's wrath poured out from Heaven, the nine bowls of GOD's wrath poured upon the earth, as to call it the day of the 'Horrible Thing'.

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And what about the other 'posture' like, 'stand' and 'sit' when we pray, and what did JESUS teach us in regards....?

JESUS taught the church, even the Gentile Christians, the Gospel as well (Matthew 28:19&20), and is not how the theologians claims, was taught only for Israel. And He taught and gave His 'commandment', to do/practice and abide, and bear much fruit, the church. And their fruit, the church, should abide (John 15:16). Here in regards to prayer He taught and gave a commandment, "............., thou shall not ............" (Matthew 6:5).

So Christians who 'stand' and pray in church meetings held anywhere, even the street corners, are 'hypocrites'. And ones who do not obey His given commandments, among others in the New Testament, even through and of the Apostles, do not love Him (John 14:21-24).

JESUS said, "When you pray, go into a room and lock yourself, and pray in secret between you and your FATHER, who art in secret. And in secret HE shall reward you."

In other words, there are prayers also done in the open according to the written truth one prays of and for, but will not be rewarded. This because such act has been seen by others. And in the book of Acts, has any Apostles or believers prayed in the open. If a church, as the body CHRIST being 'one', gathers and pray in a room or building with theirs doors 'locked', will be rewarded. For in the book of Acts we witness these are practiced, apart from what Christians may say, that they locked themselves up and in prayers, fear from persecution.

Fat

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 12:26:07 AM »
Hello Brother Fred

Quote from:  fredjames
And apart from those who have shared theirs wisdom here Scripturally sticking to the topic and tread, JESUS also taught, "Pray to GOD that you will be counted worthy to escape tribulation." and this i believe and have faith, this is when initially Christians are punished and persecuted for their faith sake, and those who going to face the first Tribulation during the reign of 'Anti-CHRIST', for three and a half years before the ascension where half of the  Christians will be taken up to meet the LORD in the cloud. And henceforth 'The Great Tribulation' of GOD's wrath poured out from Heaven, the nine bowls of GOD's wrath poured upon the earth, as to call it the day of the 'Horrible Thing'.

Could you please give me the scriptures to back this up? Sounds like you're a mid trip rapture guy, but I don't get the reference to half of the Christians and the first tribulation.

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If a church, as the body CHRIST being 'one', gathers and pray in a room or building with theirs doors 'locked', will be rewarded.

Did you mean to say doors shut and not doors locked?

Quote
So Christians who 'stand' and pray in church meetings held anywhere, even the street corners, are 'hypocrites'. And ones who do not obey His given commandments, among others in the New Testament, even through and of the Apostles, do not love Him (John 14:21-24).

This is absolutely not so! We see the parable the Christ gave to us to demonstrate that he was talking about humbling yourself in front of God, and not being a show off in front of man.  Both men stood in the synagogue while they prayed.

Luke 18
10. 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer;
11. the Pharisee having stood by himself, thus prayed: God, I thank Thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer;
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.
13. 'And the tax-gatherer, having stood afar off, would not even the eyes lift up to the heaven, but was smiting on his breast, saying, God be propitious to me -- the sinner!
14. I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.



Thanks
Fat
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 12:50:26 AM by Fat »

fredjames

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 09:01:05 PM »
Hello Brother Fred

Hello Brother Fat likewise, and peace be with you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Quote
Could you please give me the scriptures to back this up? Sounds like you're a mid trip rapture guy, but I don't get the reference to half of the Christians and the first tribulation.

i am not a Scripture quoting talent believer, but one in given wisdom talented, according to the sound doctrine of the New Testament. i can plainly tell what JESUS said and the Scriptures you have learned will come into mind, thank you...

'mid-trip rapture guy', am not, but what JESUS said in simple understanding. Like He said that the reign of Anti-CHRIST supposedly is to be 7 years. As it is also called the Tribulation period for saint, being punished and persecuted for their faith. But due to the atrocity He, the false prophet and the world inflicts against the Christian saint and because of their faith in CHRIST JESUS our LORD, not to give in and join them, and moreover for them not to give up in faith, JESUS said GOD shortened it to 3&1/2 years. The time was not shortened for the world, but for the 'very elect', whom the beast shall deceive.

Christian saints will be tested for their faith, and it has happened historically, and GOD allowed it to test in order to divide between the 'pure faith', who would lay down their lives for the Kingdom and their brethren. And 'nominal faith', who will be on the neutral side, by being the good guy. Moreover the 'fake faith', immediately denies one's faith and join the winning side. For example, GOD's test already started with the MASTER in His time, from Herod to the Priest and leaders of Israel, inflicting tribulation and persecution towards believers in faith, even aided by Saul himself in zeal until to the outskirts of Jerusalem until his conversion in Damascus. And it continue still from Jerusalem until Rome, to Nero and more in power and authority. Then, from Constantine to the Pope through to the Crusaders, and too from the Protestant themselves, to the islamic prophet and islamic leaders, and through out the world till today, reported or unreported, even through media. And finally, in the reign of the 'Beast' worldwide for 3&1/2 years, even with the aid of the world, who will be deluded themselves in lies, and be on his side to do his wretched work, as seem righteous in delusion. For all of this has taken place and taking place, as well going to take place, where for now we nominal don't inflict it, since being neutral with the world for now, but will come. It has been said by the LORD JESUS CHRIST in the beginning, and as the Apostles for Him testify to the churches. That in conclusion to one's genuine faith and as how gold is reheated again and again, refined to it's purity, Apostle Paul said that, 'Every foundation will be tested with fire.'

And this also come in conjunction to what JESUS said about the ascension, where two men will be working in the field, one will be taken, and two women in the house, where one will be taken. Isn't that in a scale comparison of 'half of them will be taken', while the other 'half left behind'?

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Did you mean to say doors shut and not doors locked?

Am sorry, the Scripture quotes, ....shut thy door.... Perhaps also locking, for not to be seen by anyone, who might come in, thinking the room is empty, beyond all odds possible....? You do not want while your door is shut and you are praying to GOD in secret, someone assuming the room is empty or accidentally opens the door, to be seen by others right?

Quote
This is absolutely not so! We see the parable the Christ gave to us to demonstrate that he was talking about humbling yourself in front of God, and not being a show off in front of man.  Both men stood in the synagogue while they prayed.

Luke 18
10. 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer;
11. the Pharisee having stood by himself, thus prayed: God, I thank Thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer;
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.
13. 'And the tax-gatherer, having stood afar off, would not even the eyes lift up to the heaven, but was smiting on his breast, saying, God be propitious to me -- the sinner!
14. I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.

In that parables JESUS also include the natural hypocritical act of the Pharisees and as teachers and leaders of the people of Israel, and the person who prayed behind him in unworthiness naturally act as their leaders do.... JESUS also said and commanded His disciples, even referring to the acts of the Pharisees, which is, "Learn from them, but do not do what they do."

And too from them to the church who are born again from above and born of the HOLY SPIRIT and are spirit, He teaches them likewise the act from above which pleases GOD, that when they pray, to do/practice and abide according to Matthew 6:5-8, and also among many other things JESUS taught....

Therefore brother, your justification of absolutely not so, is untrue, and likewise your parables defeats Matthew 6:5. For, as JESUS refers Pharisees as a lesson to us Christians, even 'standing' and praying in our meeting places and every street corner is an act of 'hypocrisy', just to be seen by others 

Quote
Thanks
Fat

Also thank you, and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless HIS church with HIS kindness and peace.

fred
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 09:17:50 PM by fredjames »

Fat

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 12:13:41 AM »
BR. Fred

Hello Brother Fat likewise, and peace be with you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.



'mid-trip rapture guy', am not, but what JESUS said in simple understanding. Like He said that the reign of Anti-CHRIST supposedly is to be 7 years. As it is also called the Tribulation period for saint, being punished and persecuted for their faith. But due to the atrocity He, the false prophet and the world inflicts against the Christian saint and because of their faith in CHRIST JESUS our LORD, not to give in and join them, and moreover for them not to give up in faith, JESUS said GOD shortened it to 3&1/2 years. The time was not shortened for the world, but for the 'very elect', whom the beast shall deceive.

Christian saints will be tested for their faith, and it has happened historically, and GOD allowed it to test in order to divide between the 'pure faith', who would lay down their lives for the Kingdom and their brethren. And 'nominal faith', who will be on the neutral side, by being the good guy. Moreover the 'fake faith', immediately denies one's faith and join the winning side. For example, GOD's test already started with the MASTER in His time, from Herod to the Priest and leaders of Israel, inflicting tribulation and persecution towards believers in faith, even aided by Saul himself in zeal until to the outskirts of Jerusalem until his conversion in Damascus. And it continue still from Jerusalem until Rome, to Nero and more in power and authority. Then, from Constantine to the Pope through to the Crusaders, and too from the Protestant themselves, to the islamic prophet and islamic leaders, and through out the world till today, reported or unreported, even through media. And finally, in the reign of the 'Beast' worldwide for 3&1/2 years, even with the aid of the world, who will be deluded themselves in lies, and be on his side to do his wretched work, as seem righteous in delusion. For all of this has taken place and taking place, as well going to take place, where for now we nominal don't inflict it, since being neutral with the world for now, but will come. It has been said by the LORD JESUS CHRIST in the beginning, and as the Apostles for Him testify to the churches. That in conclusion to one's genuine faith and as how gold is reheated again and again, refined to it's purity, Apostle Paul said that, 'Every foundation will be tested with fire.'

And this also come in conjunction to what JESUS said about the ascension, where two men will be working in the field, one will be taken, and two women in the house, where one will be taken. Isn't that in a scale comparison of 'half of them will be taken', while the other 'half left behind'?

Well I believe the the Rapture will be before the tribulation and it is the view of 95% of theologians that are bible based. If I am correct then there is no way your interpretation can hold up. The Church will be gone and only the 144,000 Jewish believers will be left to spread the news of Christ and Him crucified.

 
Quote
In that parables JESUS also include the natural hypocritical act of the Pharisees and as teachers and leaders of the people of Israel, and the person who prayed behind him in unworthiness naturally act as their leaders do.... JESUS also said and commanded His disciples, even referring to the acts of the Pharisees, which is, "Learn from them, but do not do what they do."

And too from them to the church who are born again from above and born of the HOLY SPIRIT and are spirit, He teaches them likewise the act from above which pleases GOD, that when they pray, to do/practice and abide according to Matthew 6:5-8, and also among many other things JESUS taught....

Therefore brother, your justification of absolutely not so, is untrue, and likewise your parables defeats Matthew 6:5. For, as JESUS refers Pharisees as a lesson to us Christians, even 'standing' and praying in our meeting places and every street corner is an act of 'hypocrisy', just to be seen by others 

This is not true and I posted the Scripture to refute it. Now please take the time to read Matt 6:5    “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

 If someone prays kneeling is he not also seen by men?

Luke 18
10. 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer;
11. the Pharisee having stood by himself, thus prayed: God, I thank Thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer;
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.
13. 'And the tax-gatherer, having stood afar off, would not even the eyes lift up to the heaven, but was smiting on his breast, saying, God be propitious to me -- the sinner!
14. I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.

Both men were standing in prayer and Christ only found fault with one of them and it was not because he was standing it was because he was a braggart and hypocrite.


2 Tim 3:16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Shalom
Fat

fredjames

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 03:31:23 AM »
BR. Fred

Well I believe the the Rapture will be before the tribulation and it is the view of 95% of theologians that are bible based. If I am correct then there is no way your interpretation can hold up. The Church will be gone and only the 144,000 Jewish believers will be left to spread the news of Christ and Him crucified.

i am no theologians, for they are according to Matthew 15:9. And i am prophesying in the spirit. JESUS said the falling away will come first and many will loose their faith... And believers were told not to accept the mark of the beast in order to buy and sell, or they will be cut off from GOD. For the very elect the beast shall deceive. For the seven year of the beast's reign has been shorten to three and a half for the people of faith.

And the 144,000 is the church, the remnant Jews chosen by grace who were not harden to the Gospel, will be taken. Together with half of the Gentiles (as one will be taken while the other left behind), according to the book of Revelation. During the reign of the beast Christians will be here on earth to watch out for these signs, that the beast will make a peace treaty with Israel and later break it, and allow the Temple of the Jews be erected once again, and sacrifices resume as according to the Law of Moses, and later stop all of them by farce and the beast himself will take his throne in the same temple as god. And Christians also will witness during the reign of the beast, the two witnesses will be ministering from Jerusalem to the Jews, and the beast will destroy them both.......

These are the signs to watch out and be alert for in the time of Tribulation with the beast and know who he is, and who shall deceive the world and the very elect themselves. Therefore seeing these things coming to pass, Christians are not loose faith in the teaching of LORD JESUS CHRIST according to the New Testament, who have said that all of these must come to pass first, and perhaps during our time today, in order to be alert and stay awake at all times...

If the ascension happens before the Tribulation and the reign of the beast, then we do not need these signs and to stay awake and watch out for, which JESUS already taught us beforehand, to who are born again from above and are in faith to all of them spiritually, in order to watch our for and stay awake to witness these things which must come to pass during our time of the next. As ones waiting in faith, for His coming is soon, and He will come like a thief in the night, in order to take those who are on guard in faith in the midst of Tribulation and the beast. And therefore leave behind those who are 'lukewarm' and off guard in regards to faith, and peace with the world.

The points are very thorough and from the HOLY SPIRIT, who brings to our remembrance, all that CHRIST JESUS our LORD in teaching to Christian have taught us already, and passed on to the next generation to the next. In order from the beginning, they are to stay awake and be alert to and the LORD's coming soon. His coming soon predicament, has already begin to be preached by the Apostles at their time to the churches, in order from the beginning, to always, until to this generation and perhaps to come, who know the 'hour' and the 'time' of His coming, to always stay awake and be alert to...     
 
Quote
This is not true and I posted the Scripture to refute it. Now please take the time to read Matt 6:5    “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

 If someone prays kneeling is he not also seen by men?

Luke 18
10. 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer;
11. the Pharisee having stood by himself, thus prayed: God, I thank Thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer;
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.
13. 'And the tax-gatherer, having stood afar off, would not even the eyes lift up to the heaven, but was smiting on his breast, saying, God be propitious to me -- the sinner!
14. I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.

Both men were standing in prayer and Christ only found fault with one of them and it was not because he was standing it was because he was a braggart and hypocrite.


2 Tim 3:16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Shalom
Fat

i am sticking to what i already prophesy in faith, because He said 'do not', and that is His commandment, be like the hypocrites. And second, they love to 'stand up', when they pray, and vice-verse to the next point CHRIST is making....

And again He also said to His disciples, to learn from them, and 'do not', and that is another commandment of His, do what they do. As JESUS refers also in the Parable likewise they tend to do as Jews (hypocrites, Pharisee and likewise their pleasers, habitually do and show off). And that is also why JESUS included about them that all must come to repentance, that:

"The blind leading the blind and soon they are going to fall into a ditch."

« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 03:52:44 AM by fredjames »

Fat

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 10:35:37 AM »
Hello Fred

He also gave the  commandment to :

and said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation." Jesus Betrayed by Judas  (Luke 22:46, NASB)

Not wake up but get up.

You can play this game of removing scripture from the Text without understanding of its context, but your going to run into major problems.

These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;  they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."  (Mark 16:18, NASB)

So do you drink poison Fred?

fredjames

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 11:53:28 PM »
Hello Fred

He also gave the  commandment to :

and said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation." Jesus Betrayed by Judas  (Luke 22:46, NASB)

Not wake up but get up.

You can play this game of removing scripture from the Text without understanding of its context, but your going to run into major problems.

These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;  they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."  (Mark 16:18, NASB)

So do you drink poison Fred?

Oh my GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, i forgive fat, and do forgive him too who have miss judged me and your Word.

Oh fat, stop in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST being wise in your own conceit and the children of disobedience, who hear GOD's voice everyday, and are 'heat-harden'.

The disciples were sleeping, and JESUS said to them, 'get up' or 'wake up', is the same word and expression calling someone to wake up from their sleep. And definitely not as you claim that JESUS told them to 'standup' and pray...

i believe you are the one who is poisoned with deception and pride sadly....   

Fat

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Re: 'Prayer and poisture in prayer'
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 12:11:17 AM »
Oh my GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, i forgive fat, and do forgive him too who have miss judged me and your Word.

Oh fat, stop in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST being wise in your own conceit and the children of disobedience, who hear GOD's voice everyday, and are 'heat-harden'.

The disciples were sleeping, and JESUS said to them, 'get up' or 'wake up', is the same word and expression calling someone to wake up from their sleep. And definitely not as you claim that JESUS told them to 'standup' and pray...

i believe you are the one who is poisoned with deception and pride sadly....

Good for you Fred.