Author Topic: Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number  (Read 1867 times)

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Zant Law

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Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number
« on: January 03, 2011, 03:59:27 PM »
Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number

 What started me thinking of this topic was Genesis 1:26

Quote from: Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The use of us is also used in the JW's bible, The New World Translation. John Gill teaches that in the following verses the words maker and creator can also be plural. So who is it that God called to council to consider of the making of Man?

Quote from: Makers and Creator
Job 35:10  But none saith , Where is God my maker , who giveth songs in the night;
Psalms 149:2 Let Israel celebrate its Maker; let the children of Zion rejoice in their King.
Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, "I have no delight in them";
Isaiah 54:5 "For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts ; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.

It will be argued that the Us in Genesis is the Father and the Son as pointed out in John 1. Each being a sepreate God or god as the NWT writes it and not a Trinity in one. Most argue that Us is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost Trinity.

Quote from: John 1:1
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

This argument comes from the God's instructions that there is to be no other God's before Israel.

Quote from: KJV
Deuteronomy 8:19
And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish .

When I read the phrase 'serve them' I came up with another question. If you believe that Christ is not God but a lesser god as do JW's and LDS you are stuck in the position where you can not serve or worship Christ. There is a big chunk of the New Testament that you must throw out like the writings of Paul, James, Peter and Jude.

Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus
If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ.
Epaphras, who is one of you, a slave of Christ Jesus, greets you.
James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ:
Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ
Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ,


Some translation use the words 'servant' or 'bound servent' The NWT uses slave. 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ: (NWT)

One verse just leads to more questions if you do not believe in the Trinity of the Godhead. Looking at 2 Peter the reference of Christ being the Savior in the JW's bible lead to another problem for the small (g) people.

Quote from: no savior but I
Hosea 13:4 KJV
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

4 “But I am Jehovah your God from the land of Egypt, and there was no God except me that you used to know; and there was no savior but I  (NWT)


Is 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour KJV

11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” (NWT)

Well there you go there is only one Savior but who is He?


Quote from: Savior Jesus Christ
Luke 2:11 KJV
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

11 because there was born to YOU today a Savior, who is Christ [the] Lord, in David’s city. (NWT)

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ: (NWT)

Oooops looks like two Saviors or could it be that the Godhead is One? It sure would make it all make sense. ;D
ZLaw

ryteous

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Re: Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 05:19:30 AM »
I believe that there is no conflict in the statement found in Genesis and John. God the father, God the son and the Holy Spirit (trinity) is a separate personage but one in purpose. Thus, the word "God" which is spoken in Genesis is true.



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Proa42

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Re: Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 02:10:40 PM »
Is there a solid reason for assuming that when God said, "Let us, , ," He was not speaking to others in His company?

It opens up a whole lot of possibilities to consider, particularly with respect to the active part played by the Heavenly hosts.

Fat

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Re: Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 10:54:55 PM »
Law,
Just reviewing your post you forgot one. The first verse in the bible the word God or ~yhla  is plural of hhwla.

IHS
Fat

Hal

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Re: Divine Creators and Makers in the plural number
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 02:06:07 PM »
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Christ is the Archangel Michael. In their interpretation of John one one must conclude that they believe the angels are God's. You can draw the conclusion by their interpretation of Genesis 1:26, that God and the angels are co-creators of the universe.

I would ask the question, who then do you worship? The creator or the creator's.