Author Topic: When will the Rapture occur?  (Read 2892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pilgrim

  • Guest
When will the Rapture occur?
« on: February 22, 2011, 12:19:29 PM »
When will the Rapture occur, before or after the Second Advent?

In His grace

pilgrim

Bob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 689
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »
Before.

pilgrim

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 05:03:00 PM »
You are correct Bob on a very important doctrine.

Some say we do not know how long the time period is after the rapture before the tribulation begins, and others that it is not important. But a study of that time is very important. Why should the Lord's people not be encouraged by the knowledge that we will be spared the carnage and persecution by the Anti-Christ during the tribulation? We can learn many things that transpire at the time of that transition. There was the Apostles counsel in Jerusalem to settle some issues raised by Pharisees that were causing confusion in the Jewish church, as well as in Gentile churches later established by Paul.

At that counsel James says that at this present time God is taking out of the Gentiles a people for His name. And then adds, “After this,” God will begin the rebuilding of David’s kingdom which has fallen down. Paul says the same thing in Rom. 11:25-26 that blindness in part has happened to Israel “until,” the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Meaning this present age that ends with the rapture, and “then” all Israel will be saved.
 
Of course the “all” is the 1/3 of Zech. 13:8-9 that will survive the tribulation. When Paul says then “all Israel” will be saved, he is continuing his remarks from Rom. 11:5 where he speaks of even at that time a remnant is being saved, but then, after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in through the church at the rapture, all Israel will be saved.

Here it is plain that God intends to bring the church and present Dispensation of Grace to a conclusion before the beginning of the re-establishment of the kingdom of Israel. That time of rebuilding the kingdom of David is identical to Daniel’s 70th week and the 7 years tribulation period will begin immediately after the rapture. At the council in Jerusalem in AD 50 after Paul has enlightened the apostles (Gal. 2:2, 7-8) what James tells the Apostles was, and I quote here for the convenience of the reader:

Quote
Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. “And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
‘After this I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up, so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord. Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the ‘Lord who does all these things’ (Acts 15:14-18).
Quote

At that meeting it is also plain that James makes a clear distinction between Israel and the church program; a different good news; Paul's gospel.

Since the rapture was unknown before being revealed to Paul, nothing is said about it by the Lord or His apostles. Consequently, we learn more about the time of the rapture by understanding the time of the beginning of the Day of The Lord; the beginning of the tribulation of which much is said by the Lord and the apostles. And as James said, the taking out of the Gentiles, or rapture takes place immediately precedes the tribulation.

It is the same time (the tribulation and Daniels 70th week) that the Lord mentioned when He said of the third offer of the kingdom “this gospel of the kingdom will preached to all the world and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14).

Thanks again for your input Bob

In His grace

pilgrim

Proa42

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2011, 08:06:35 AM »
ANSWER SIMPLIFIED:  Revelation 14:15 (King James Version)  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.


Matthew 24:30
 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

VCO

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 06:36:56 PM »
Is the Calling Out of the Bride (or Rapture) going to come first or is it the Second Coming?

I apologize that this will be a long reply, so I will break it up into segments:

The rapture (which is the Calling Out of the Bride the Church to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in the New Dwelling Place that HE has prepared for us), has to happen before the Second Coming.  The Second Coming is when HE reclaims the earth, slaying all unbelievers with the sword of HIS mouth; and then sets up HIS Thousand Year Kingdom, ruling from the Throne of David.  That event happens so slowly that the Armies of the World have time to move their troops to Valley of Megiddo, also know as Armagedon, before Christ actually sets foot on earth at the Mt. of Olives, Zech 14:3-4, Rev. 16:12-16, & Rev. 19:1-21.  While in comparison, the Calling Out of the Bride happens so fast that it is compared to lightning flashing from the east to the west, plus at that time Christ does not set foot on earth, He only APPEARS in the air in the clouds.

Matthew 24:27 (NASB)
27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Titus 2:13 (HCSB)
13 while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
The main reason the Calling Out of the Bride has to come first is in this Verse:

Mark 13:32 (NKJV)
32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

That cannot be talking about The Second Coming when HE comes as KING of Kings; but rather when HE appears in the clouds as Our Bridegroom to Call out HIS Bride to go to HIS and Her Wedding; because the Days of the Antichrist’s reign are numbered and he will reign for 3 and a half years peacefully, followed by 3 and a half years of being the most blood thirsty Dictator that has ever lived.

The understanding of why the Calling out of the Bride the Church has to happen first is found in understanding the Jewish Wedding Traditions at the time of Christ.  Most of the info that I have on the Jewish Wedding Traditions, comes from the late Dr. Zola Levitt.  I pray this will be helpful:

VCO

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 06:38:56 PM »
False teachers frequently try to pick the day of the Second Coming or even the Judgment Day, and some even say the Church must go through the Tribulation. Therefore they either skip entirely the 7 year reign of Antichrist or falsely claim we go through it too; and some even deny the 1000 year Kingdom of Jesus Christ.  I totally believe in both, and I believe the Lord literally meant it when he said:

1 Thess 5:9 (KJV)
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I believe the Wrath He is referring to is:

Rev 6:15-17 (NKJV)
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

I also believe HE literally meant it when HE said:

Rev 3:10 (NKJV)
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

In Mal. 3:6 the Lord says "HE DOES NOT CHANGE.  He got His people out to a place of safety, in the Ark, before pouring out His wrath in the form of the Flood.  Therefore I also believe that because the "hour of trial" is coming upon the whole earth and those who dwell on the earth; then our "Ark" of safety is a place off this earth.  I believe that place of safety off this earth is in Heaven in the New City Jerusalem that is described in Rev. Chapter 21.  WHY is He taking us there?:

Rev 21:9 (NKJV)
. . . "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."

NOTE:  She is in her new dwelling place in Heaven.

Rev 19:9 (NKJV)
9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Eph 5:23 (NKJV)
23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

VCO

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 06:39:44 PM »
The Marriage Supper is always at the very end of the 7 day Wedding Ceremony. 
So what happens at the very beginning of the 7 day Wedding Ceremony?

Matt 25:1-13 (NKJV)
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

NOTE, that it says the "Son of Man" not the "KING of Kings".  He is Our Bridegroom, and HE is coming for us, but we do not know the day or the hour which is exactly the same in the Jewish Wedding Traditions.  The Jewish Wedding Traditions that apply to Christ coming for His Bride the Church are as follows:

VCO

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 06:40:38 PM »
1. The man seek a bride had to make a contract with the father, agreeing on the purchase price of the Bride, which was due the day after she accepted the Proposal.  The price the Father demanded to Redeem us was a Holy Blood Sacrifice, and Christ paid the price purchasing the Church as His Bride. 

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NKJV)
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.


2. The wedding proposal was never verbal.  The man seeking a Bride is invited to a family sit down supper, after making contract with the father.  During the course of the meal the man would pour a cup of wine and passed it to his prospective Bride.  If she drank from the cup she was accepting the proposal, and if she set it down without drinking, she was refusing the proposal.  Jesus poured the cup and passed it to the Disciples the foundation of the Church.  The Disciples drank from the betrothal cup accepting Jesus Christ as our Bridegroom.  Just as in any Jewish Wedding Proposal, the Couple is known as Bride and Bridegroom throughout the Betrothal Period.   ( Mat. 9:15 )

1 Corinthians 11:25 (NCV)
25 In the same way, after they ate, Jesus took the cup. He said, “This cup is the new agreement that is sealed with the blood of my death. When you drink this, do it to remember me.“

3. The first thing that would take place after the Bride drank from the Cup, accepting the Marriage Proposal, is the Bridegroom would stand, look at his Bride, and say, “I go to prepare a place for you.”  He would then leave the old dwelling place of the Bride, never to set foot in it again until after the Wedding Ceremony.  According to the Jewish Wedding Traditions, he would go back home and begin to build a New Dwelling Place for his Bride either in or near his father’s home.  Jesus said in:

John 12:2-3 (NASB) “ 2 In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. “ 

That comes straight out of a Jewish Wedding Proposal.

4.  So did they set the Date for the Wedding like we do?  NO, because only the father of the Bridegroom had the right to periodically inspect the New Dwelling Place and giving additional instructions to his son to add this and that, make this better, etc.  Finally without any advanced warning, the father would say to his son, frequently near midnight, “It is finished, go get your Bride.”
Hence, it is a reality in any Jewish Wedding that ONLY the Father knows when the Wedding will start; because it is ONLY the Father that can decide when the New Dwelling Place is FINISHED, including the Wedding Decorations, because the Wedding ALWAYS took place in the New Dwelling Place.  While the Son would go off to steal His Bride away like a Thief in the Night, the father would give orders to the servants to get ready to welcome the Wedding Guests.  Where is our New Dwelling Place?  The New City Jerusalem in Heaven and it is Decorated, adorned as you would a Bride, which eventually be lowered to the earth.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV)
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

5.  While it is true that NO ONE knew the day or hour that Wedding would begin, because only the father of the Bridegroom made that decision at the last minute; is was possible to see signs that the Time for the Wedding was NEAR.  If the new dwelling place was outside the father’s house, the building itself was a visible sign of times, and/or by the products the servants were buying for their Master.  When you saw them buying decorations for a Wedding you knew the time was near.  At that time the Bride would gather her wedding party in her old dwelling place.  They each would have to have a lantern with oil in because they new that the Jewish Wedding Traditions of 2000 years ago, dictated that the Bridegroom could come to call out his Bride late at night.  We in a real sense are gathering the Wedding Party in our old dwelling place, “earth”, as we lead each new believer to receive Jesus as LORD.  Sure we do not know the day or hour, but the signs of the times indicate that it is soon.  Therefore we keep watch, expecting our Bridegroom to APPEAR in the clouds to call us out.  And JUST LIKE the parable of ten virgins, ONLY those with oil in their lamps ( the Holy Spirit is the living oil in us ), get to go with the Bridegroom to the Wedding.

Mark 13:35 (NIV)
35  "Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back--whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.

VCO

  • Guest
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 06:42:30 PM »
6.  When the father tells the son to go get his Bride, he still does NOT set foot in the old dwelling place of the Bride.  He actually travels to the old dwelling place of the Bribe, but stops just outside of it and calls her out.  The Bridegroom is not the one that calls out the Bride, but rather he chooses a member of his wedding party to SHOUT to wake her and her wedding guests, calling her out of the old dwelling place.  And they join with the Bridegroom’s wedding party and together they travel to the new dwelling that the Bridegroom has personally built, for the Wedding Ceremony.  Jesus has actually chosen the archangel already to SHOUT and call us out of our old dwelling place “earth”.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NKJV)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
7.  The wedding ceremony in the new dwelling place was not like our weddings of today.  They actually lasted seven days.  If the guests lived close by they would go home, but if the bridegroom lived far away from the old dwelling place of the Bride, then accommodations would be made in the father’s house for the wedding guests.  Each morning the Wedding celebrations would continue, with the official Marriage Supper being saved for last.   Then they would travel back to the old dwelling place of the Bride and the Bridegroom we set foot again in the old dwelling place of the Bride for the first time since the Bride had accepted his proposal.

Revelation 19:9 (NKJV)
9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Zechariah 14:3-4 (ESV)
3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.

U&U

I believe the Wedding of the Lamb is a Week of Years, not a Week of days, and is the very same week of years that is the 70th Week of Daniel.  All 70 weeks in Daniel's prophecy are weeks of Years, but the 70th Week of Daniel is set apart from the rest; placing the Church Age between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniel.  It is all culminated with Christ setting foot on earth, destroying all the remaining unbelievers with the sword of His mouth (His Word), and setting up His one thousand year Kingdom, reigning from David’s Throne, while the 144,000 Jews that were sealed in the mortal bodies (we will be in our glorified bodies reigning with Him); are the Jews who will repopulate the earth with mortal human beings.

Revelation 19:21 (NKJV)
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20:6 (ESV)
6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

And as John said:

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

WGY

Defacto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • WWII Vet
Re: When will the Rapture occur?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2016, 08:19:13 AM »
According to the Scriptures, the price a potentia Jewishl groom must pay the father for the potential Jewish bride is seven years, not seven days.   Confirmation of that can be found in Gen.29:9-30.


Defacto