Author Topic: The Old and New covenant is incorrectly divided  (Read 2736 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pilgrim

  • Guest
The Old and New covenant is incorrectly divided
« on: March 09, 2011, 08:03:04 am »
A young ruler came to the Lord one day and asked:

Quote
…Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” so He said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matt. 19:16-17).
Quote


It should be eviden here that the Lord is not speaking of grace as Paul the apostle taught it. Instead, the Lord is quoting what was required by the Mosaic Law of Lev. 18:5 under which He was yet minstering because the New Covenant and grace could not begin until after the cross and sins were paid for and the coming of the Holy spirit.
 
A refusal to acknowledge the above truths, has spawned such as Seventh Day Advents, Seventh Day Baptists, etc, etc., and a whole host of people trying to gain favor with God and get to heaven by keeping the Mosaic Ten Commandments, that only applied to Israel before the cross. The church is not under the law. Neither could Israel keep the law (Acts 15:10); otherwise there would be no need for the Savior and a New Covenant.

The apostle Paul also said of the times of the Lord's teaching:

Quote
When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons (Gal. 4:4-5).
Quote

With the present arrangement, the Old Covenant ends with the book of Malachi, and the New Testament begins with the book of Matthew. The correct place for the beginning of the New Covenant is the Book of Acts. According to the Scriptures, the New Covenant could not begin until the sins committed under the Old Covenant were paid for. Consequently, it could not begin until the Lord’s death. Paul in his Epistle to the Hebrews said of Christ:
   
Quote
…He is the Mediator of the new covenant by means of death, for the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance (Heb. 9:15).
Quote

Here it is plainly stated that there could be no New Covenant, until the sins committed under the OC were paid for which was at the cross. Furthermore, the New Covenant is likened to a last will and testament where its provisions could only be realized by the testator’s (Christ’s) death.

Quote
For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives (Heb. 9:16-17).
Quote

The apostle Paul also said:

Quote
When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons (Gal. 4:4-5).
Quote

Most certainly, the Lord taught that faith in Himself was the way of life for everyone (Jo. 3:14-18; 20:29-31). But His death where He paid the sin dept was not understood until after the cross.

When He invited someone to come to Himself and find life, it must be remembered, Paul said of Christ’s ministry that would also include the 12 apostles:

Quote
…Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.
Quote

The Jews who believed in Him were already under a covenant whereby they would be saved (preserved) in Hades until their sins were paid for on the cross. Those who lived before the cross did not understand the Lord's blood sacrifice as payment for their sins until after the fact.

When the Memoirs erroneously called the Gospels are used as New Covenant documents, the ever present and inevitable problem remains. He was a teacher of the law, under the law. Not only did the Lord teach the necessity of keeping the commandments to have eternal life, but also instructed the disciples to do as the scribes and Pharisee’s taught.

The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do (Matt. 23:2-3).
   
Are we to do as the Pharisee say; keep the Sabbath, pay a tithe, and make animal sacrifices? Give a writing of divorce to our wife if she doesn’t please us. Without doubt, by questioning the paying of a tithe, some will respond by asking, are you saying we should not pay the pastor a salary? Of course not! What is being said is, nowhere in the NT is it said that we are to give 10 percent of our income to anyone.
 
The teaching of the apostle Paul who founded the present church and Dispensation of Grace is, we are to give freely as the Lord has blessed us, and according to our conscience. We are not under the Mosaic Law. Paul said to the Corinthians church: “So let each one give as he purposes in his own heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Cor. 9:7). If Paul believed we are to pay a tithe surely he would have mentioned it along with the above. Acts 15:28-29 give us the necessities for this dispensation where nothing is mentioned about a tithe, Sabbath keeping or any such things.

Is the church composed of 12 tribes? If as the Amillennialists claim, we are the new Israel, to be consistent then, the church should be divided into 12 tribes. The tithe for the 11 tribes was for the upkeep of the tribe of Levi, who had no allotment of land in Israel when it was divided. And to be even more consistent, where is the allotment of lands for the eleven tribes of the church? Are they in America, or Israel, or if we are the kingdom, the world? The irrational and ridiculous can easily be seen when we turn the Scriptures into such fantasies through the amillennial teaching and present division of the covenants.
 
If it were figuratively said that Abraham the father of the faithful including us referred to as the spiritual children of Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek, then we should do the same. What Abraham gave was 10 percent of what he recovered that belonged to his nephew Lot, and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah. Things that had been taken by king Chedorlaomer and those kings with him (Gen. 14:16-20). It is clear that that incident cannot be used as grounds for believers paying a tithe today.

The greatest single problem Paul encountered was the unbelieving Jews insistence that Paul’s Gentile converts had to keep the commandments to be saved. It was the very exact thing the Lord taught the young ruler, and Paul’s answer to those who demanded that his converts keep the law to be saved in this Dispensation of Grace was:

Quote
…if we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you other than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel than what you have received, let him be accursed (Gal. 1:8-9).
Quote

Am I saying the Lord and Paul contradicted each other? Of course not, what is being said is the Old and New Testaments (Covenant) are improperly divided. The New Covenant should begin with the Book of Acts. The Lord only taught what the Mosaic Law (Covenant) of Commandments commanded (Lev. 18:5; Ex. 24:7-8; Deut. 4:13; Gal. 3:23-24; 2Cor. 3:7).

To find fault with the present division is far from a simplistic complaint. In view of the historical aftermath of such teaching, if we say the New Covenant began before the Lord’s death, are we not in an unintentional but real sense denying the need for His death? Yet, in the face of it all, we seemingly have no care or even the least concern.

The teaching that the New Covenant began through the Lord’s teaching, love, good works, and miracles is the very root and wellspring of the social gospel. From that we hear much about the love and Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man apart from the cross and the blood of Christ. A pseudo gospel that is anything but good news (Gal. 1:6-7) but rests squarely on works and denies the need for the Lord’s sacrifice.

In searching some of the best commentaries for their comments on the aforementioned Scriptures, it is almost inexplicable why the truth about where the New Covenant begins is completely passed over without saying anything about the present incorrect division.

It is as if they simply refuse to see the truth and would choose rather to ignore it than try to explain it. Perhaps the truth is, if they acknowledge the present division as being incorrect and change to the scriptural division, then for many, their theology will be radically affected. They would then have to rearrange a lifetime of mistaken teaching about many things, and that, they are not willing to do.

May the Lord bless

pilgrim

pilgrim

  • Guest
The present division of the Old and New testaments mixes Law and Grace
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2011, 11:55:06 am »
What was spoken to Israel under the law about the keeping of the commandments as the way of life, even before the end of the first century has been applied to the church by most of Christendom. It is still a problem with everyone who attempts to make church doctrine from the Old Covenant documents, the Memoirs (erroneously called Gospels).

As an example, if someone unacquainted with the Scriptures, and basic doctrines of Christianity should ask, where can I find the church in the Bible? They would be directed to the New Testament. They would then find the place where it would say: The New Testament, and begin reading in the book of Matthew, four books short of the New Testament when the law of commandments were yet taught, and more than thirty-four years before the New Covenant actually existed. They would still be short of the birth of the present church which did not begin until approximately AD 46-47; some 10 years after the conversion of the apostle Paul (Acts 13:2, 46-47; 14:1, 27).

To carry the example to what could be a very realistic result, let us say the person began reading where it says “The New Testament.” He reads in Matthew until he came to the place (19:16-17) where it is said:

Quote
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Quote

But later when reading the letter to the Galatians (2:21), Paul says:

Quote
“I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” Confused but determined, he continues on until he reads: “But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “The just shall live by faith” (Gal. 3:11).
Quote

By now he is beginning to wonder if he misread something, and perhaps he remembers Rom. 3:20 where it was said: “Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

As the confusion mounts, he goes back and again read the Lord’s words: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” But he remembered where the same one who said that no one could be justified by keeping the commandments also says, “But if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Gal. 1:8, 9). In total confusion, the book is thrown aside as something that at least, doesn’t make sense, because the Lord and Paul do not even agree on how one is to be saved and they are left wondering if the Bible is even believable.

The whole imaginary episode above would have been averted if a proper separation had been made between the Old and New Covenant, the Lord's teaching of the Law and Paul's teaching of grace, and the Gospel of the Kingdom and the present Gospel of Grace. One of law and the kingdom, the other grace, which tragically for most of Christendom has been obliterated by the present division.

It will probably be said: that’s only a hypothetical scenario, and it is; however, it is constantly borne out in reality. As I listened to a liberal minister on television when speaking to millions said: “Jesus and Paul did not agree on some things, who should we believe?” He then answered his own question by saying that we should believe Jesus.

He had been confused and misled by the present improper division of the covenants. However, the real tragedy is that of believing Jesus and Paul contradicted each other. In his statement, he denied, in the presence of million’s, 14 books of the New Testament as being reliable and “given by inspiration of God,” and therefore being, “profitable for doctrine, for re proof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Tim. 3:16).

Not only did he discredit all of the epistles of Paul, but in fact was saying the Lord’s teaching the law and commandments was more important than the Pauline doctrine of justification through faith completely apart from the law.

In the last two centuries many books have been written about the difference between the gospel that Jesus preached and that of Paul. Many written to ridicule the Scriptures as being at least inconsistent. Whatever their conclusions, their basic problems are not derived from the differences between the teachings of Jesus or Paul, but the mixing of two completely different covenants in which there can be no harmony of what each demands.

Why would Paul be preaching the gospel of the kingdom that the Lord and the other apostles were yet teaching? It had already being rejected for the second time. For that very reason Paul was called to be the apostle to the Gentiles and launch the beginning of a new dispensation. His primary message was the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles apart from the gospel of the kingdom including salvation that the other apostles were yet preaching to the Jews.

What had the Gentiles to do with the Mosaic Law? The present assembly of Christ is not a nation. The law of commandments, and the statutes and judgments was for the governing of a nation; a theocracy, whereas, we in this dispensation are to be in subjection to the existing civil governments.

Let us put the whole issue in even plainer words; if indeed the Memoirs of the apostles are part of the New Covenant, then Jesus and Paul do contradict each other! Which immediately raises the question, who should we believe, or are any Scriptures believable?

Indisputably it can be seen that there is no contradiction between the Lord Jesus and Paul. Each spoke that which applied under the covenant, and in the dispensation in which they ministered. But the critical truth to be seen here is, with the present division, confusion cannot, and will not be avoided. And that also applies to those who claim to know where the New Covenant begins, but act otherwise.

Paul’s whole life’s work was hampered by the Jewish legalists who demanded that his converts be circumcised and keep the law. Everywhere he went they followed and in his last days we read his melancholy words to Timothy: “This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me (2 Tim. 1:15). Yet, in spite of it all, we seem to have no concern whatever for what has and is being done with the present mixture. To be silent we are continuing the identical work of those who opposed Paul by using the very same instruments of confusion designed by them; the mixing of law and grace with the present division of the Old and New Covenant.

Those under the Law who trusted God and tried to be obedient and keep the commandments were preserved and saved not because they did so, but because they trusted God, and when sin was committed offered the prescribed sacrifice which covered (atoned for) their sins, until payment was made on the cross.

Abraham lived before the Old Covenant existed. For that reason, he is cited as an example of justification through faith apart from the Law (Rom. 3:19-23; 4:1-6). Paul shows that God’s intentions from the beginning was, and had to be, justification through faith because of the impossibility of anyone keeping the commandments or being righteousness before God.

In the prvious post I quoted from Paul in Gal. 4:4-5 an Heb. 9 as to where the New Covnant began and for the conveniene of th reader I will again include those passages.

With the present arrangement, the Old Covenant ends with the book of Malachi, and the New Testament begins with the book of Matthew. The correct place for the beginning of the New Covenant is the Book of Acts. According to the Scriptures, the New Covenant could not begin until the sins committed under the Old Covenant were paid for. Consequently, it could not begin until the Lord’s death. Paul in his Epistle to the Hebrews said of Christ:
   
Quote
…He is the Mediator of the new covenant by means of death, for the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance (Heb. 9:15).
Quote

Here it is plainly stated that there could be no New Covenant, until the sins committed under the OC were paid for which was at the cross. Furthermore, the New Covenant is likened to a last will and testament where its provisions could only be realized by the testator’s (Christ’s) death.

Quote
For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives (Heb. 9:16-17).
Quote

The apostle Paul also said:

Quote
When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons (Gal. 4:4-5).
Quote

What Paul said to the Galatians (1:8) about anyone being accursed was only ratifying what the Lord accomplished. He had through His death brought the Law to its completion insofar as the payment for sin is concerned. He said to the Galatians:

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not (Gal. 2:17)!

Paul’s claim is that anyone who preaches salvation through keeping the Law is denying what Christ accomplished on the cross. In which case he himself would be found lying, and even worse, Christ would be found to be a minister of sin (Gal. 2:17) by denying what He himself had said in Matt. 26:28 about His blood being shed for the remission of sins. Paul in agreement said: “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us” (Gal. 3:13).

The necessity for establishing a theology based on, and according to the different covenants and dispensations can be clearly seen. Without that distinction, we have the present confusion. We are concerned with directives that has to do with where each of us will spend eternity.

Similar confusion is found in millions of Bibles that have the Lord’s words printed in red. That certainly suggests to most readers that the Lord’s teaching is more important than Paul’s. And since the Lord was a minister of the law, then the logical conclusion is that the law is more important than what the Holy Spirit says through Paul’s New Testament epistles, or for that matter any Scriptures under the New Covenant.

Are the Lord’s words more to be trusted or more important than those of the Holy Spirit through whom Paul and the other apostles spoke and wrote? Or do the words of the Lord contradict the Holy Spirit? Did the Lord himself ever write anything? Did not the apostles and evangelists write what the Lord said after He had gone back to heaven? The Lord said:

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you (Jo. 14:26).

It was said to Paul at the time of his conversion:

Quote
The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and seen the Just One, and hear the voice or His mouth. For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard (Acts 22:14-15).
Quote

We are so awed by the Person and majesty of our Lord that there is a normal human tendency to give His words greater respect than Paul’s, even though Paul was lead by the Holy Spirit when he wrote his epistles. Paul said to the Corinthians: “the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord” (1 Cor. 14:37). Concerning his knowledge in Christ: “I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:12).

It is a fact that most of the church’s doctrine from the beginning has come about by using the Memoirs to formulate their conclusions. It is especially true in the Sermon on the Mount, from where much of the teaching of the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of God of all men is taught.

When listening to the church chanels on TV has anyone noticed that almost all use the Lord's teaching to make up their sermons?

If as the Amillennialists claim, the Lord’s teaching was the beginning of the New Covenant, and fulfilled (ended) the law by keeping it, then all we have to do is imitate Him. And since He taught the keeping of the commandments as a way to enter life, salvation is attainable through keeping the Law apart from the cross.

That is the reason some of those “higher critics” deny any need of a Savior and scoff at those who believe in the teaching of salvation through the Lord’s blood. They are no different then those in Paul’s day of whom he said were: “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 3:7).

When considering the mistake and the issuing results, it would be difficult, if not altogether impossible, to deliberately design and place in Scripture a vehicle that would wreck more havoc, and cause more confusion and dissension in the understanding of Holy Writ than the present division of the Old and New Covenants.

As a standing testimony of that truth, we only have to read Paul’s letters begging the churches to trust the only one who could deliver them from the curse of the law, because He alone came: “to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons” (Gal. 4:5).

May the Lord bless

pilgrim

calluna

  • Guest
Re: The present division of the Old and New testaments mixes Law and Grace
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2011, 05:01:41 am »
As an example, if someone unacquainted with the Scriptures, and basic doctrines of Christianity should ask, where can I find the church in the Bible?

The record of the beginning of the church is found in the Bible, with a very incomplete record of its doings after that- though a record that helps to define it. In addition, commands used to define the church are found in Scripture, that can be used to recognise the church. To answer the question of where the church is to be found now, is to advise to seek where those commands are followed. But surely the enquirer unacquainted with the Scriptures, and the basic doctrines of Christianity, needs first to hear the message of the gospel, to understand why the church exists in the first place. It is more important to hear about the sacrificial love that made the church possible, rather than the church, because each person needs the opportunity to accept salvation.

Of course the church exists because Jesus died, and this moment is recorded near the ends of the four gospels, and it is to one or more of those places that enquirers should be directed, if necessary. It can be usefully explained that, at that moment, the thick curtain of the Temple in Jerusalem was torn in two, from top to bottom, signifying the end of the long period of preparation for Jesus' death, and the end of the old covenant that had been made between God and Abraham's physical descendants at Sinai. And not a moment before.

It is true that casual readers may begin to read the Bible at Matthew 1.1, or at the start of some other gospel. More intelligent and knowledgeable readers will realise that the Israel to whom Jesus ministered was under a law that no longer pertains. It is certainly true that today there are legalists aplenty, trying to get people to follow Mosaic Law and claim the Christian label rather than act with the freedom of the Spirit-filled life. The attempt to separate Paul's letters from Jesus' commands continues, though it has had diminished effect because it has been pointed out that almost everything that Paul taught, like almost everything that Jesus taught, can be sourced to the Hebrew Scriptures. Also, it has been pointed out that the other apostolic letters confirm Paul's commands, and there is internal evidence of unanimity also, so it is not possible to convincingly single out Paul as an independent teacher. The latest reaction seems to be to try to isolate the twelve disciples from Jesus too!

Is it even necessary to have two testaments- two separate books, or a single volume divided into two parts? There is no divine authority for it. It is convenient to do that, though, and the word 'testament' means 'witness' in English (as in 'Brahms' piano writing is testament to his depth of feeling') rather than 'covenant'. Now if the New Testament was to begin with Acts, the gospels being placed at the end of the OT, Acts and the letters would seem out of context to a reader of only the NT. So maybe more would be lost than gained from the move. Not that today's Bible publishers, so keen to slip in heresies, and, as you say, to print Jesus' words in red, would listen anyway.