Author Topic: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?  (Read 3549 times)

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Zant Law

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Re: Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2013, 11:30:24 AM »
biblebuf-
Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

No. Churchianity makes Him a liar. Ever hear about the DAY of Noah? Jesus' DAY? The DAY God made all things?

So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.

Churchianity and other religions try to change the definition. Death means one is NO LONGER ALIVE. Thus, God's arrangement of a future RESURRECTION (RETURNING to life)
Gen 2: 7 shows that the person is a soul- not that one was inserted.


revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

VERY GOOD! See what the 'Lake' symbolizes?

 Matt 25:46 NWT
 And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion

BINGO! Eternal Death- destruction is the punishment, and Eternal Life (no 'immortal' souls) is the Reward / Gift!

As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Silly churchoid- Jesus used the word "Temple" in this illustration- WHY?
If he was ALIVE those 3 days- why would he NEED a Resurrection (returning to life)?
If he was DEAD (no longer alive) those 3 days- how COULD he resurrect himself?

TheBible- and Jesus HIMSELF- says everywhere else that it was GOD who resurrected him.

Connect the dots!




You make no sense in your babbling, do you understand that the sacrifice to take away the sins of the world had to be a perfect sacrifice? Do you not understand that there is only one that is perfect? Who shows most love, the one who orders someone to sacrifice himself or one who sacrifices himself? Has God ever created a creation as perfect as is Himself? How could Jesus have more love than God?

May you find a truth before it is too late.

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2013, 01:29:57 PM »
And that's it, your deep study into the trinity? Symbolic vision. They share titles.


Phat posted a biblical question for JW's that has yet to be answerred by any of them, The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors? you can find it at http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673

With all your hours of studding the Scripture I an sure you can set him straight in his fallacy.

If the Word was with God in the beginning doesn't that mean that the Word was not created? Your translation has a few wholes in it.


I'm GLAD to answer that- mwith SCRIPTURE...but it looks like that just won't be GOOD enough for you...-

Rev 7:10- And they were shouting with a great roar,

Salvation comes from our God who sits on the throne >>>   and <<< from the Lamb!”

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 01:37:24 PM »
Zant Law:
It appears you have the luxury when to declare symbolism as nonrelevant and when to declare it relevant.

The Symbolism cannot be understood by one believing church dogmas which contradict EVERYTHING the Bible says about Jesus and his God.

The Catholic Church gives sole authority to the interpretation of the Bible to itself, that be in the Vatican. The Mormon church gives sole authority for interpreting the Bible to the Mormon prophet.
My church (assembly of believers) gives the authority for interpretation of the Scriptures to the Holy Ghost.

Really? The Catholic-Fabricated Nameless Ghost-God? Does 'He' give sermons at your church?


So my question is who do you Jehovah's Witnesses look to for interpretation of the Scriptures.

As James, Jesus' brother stated, we ask Goid for understanding- and he ALWAYS gives it!

P.S. Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

Or "the Salvation OF Jehovah"

Which brings up another inconsistency of your translation. How does your watchtower explain the contradiction in these two verses?


John 14:6  (NWT)
6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 6:65  (NWT)
So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

This inconsistency does not exist in any other English translation of the holy Scriptures that I'm aware of. It is amazing that all the problems and inconsistencies in your Bible come from the changing, or adding, one letter to one verse in John. Many inconsistencies of been pointed out here to you and you stumbled very badly in trying to answer the problems that your translation has. It's amazing what Satan has done with one letter, he is stolen so many souls from Christ.


The inconsistency is in your mind: Jehovah leads the sincere to His son, who then teaches them the things about his God and Father.

theMadJW

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Re: Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2013, 01:41:01 PM »
So, you answer with QUESTIONS?
Ones making as little sense as you cheap theology?
Who said Jehovah ORDERED Jesus to carry out that mission?
As to perfection; ALL things God makes are perfect, and, as scriptures state, jesus is the EXACT REFLECTION of his God and Father.,

Do you WANT to understand anything?
Or- heh- think you already DO?

theMadJW

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TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 07:43:24 AM »
First- they deny that Jesus' God and Father is the ONLY true God- as Jesus himself said (John 17:3).
Second- they add Jesus, and the Nameless Ghost that the Catholic Church fabricated so long ago.
Third- they say Jesus NEVER DIED ('immortal soul') and is still a Man ...in HEAVEN!
Fourth- They teach They are- and will FOREVER- burn alive Trillions.
Fifth- well- let me know if you want MORE!

Is there anything TRUE that they teach about Him...or, heh, 'Them'?

theMadJW

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The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2013, 07:57:39 AM »
Endless accusations claiming otherwise are common, and the typical bigot merely CnPs huge lists from church sites.
On the other hand, when ONE is posted at a time, it is EASY to take a close look at the claim and see the TRUTH!

Any Takers?

We ALL know the the NWT has a gigantic 'head start', since it is one of the VERY few translations that does not REMOVE God's Name (that He said would be so FOREVER)- over 6,800 times! Also, it does not play 'musical chairs' as most do: translating the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul, hell, spirit. etc" with several DIFFERENT words, to hide their REAL meaning.

So- let's see if any of you can 'put your money where your MOUTH is'! :D

admin

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Re: TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2013, 08:04:49 AM »
First- they deny that Jesus' God and Father is the ONLY true God- as Jesus himself said (John 17:3).
Second- they add Jesus, and the Nameless Ghost that the Catholic Church fabricated so long ago.
Third- they say Jesus NEVER DIED ('immortal soul') and is still a Man ...in HEAVEN!
Fourth- They teach They are- and will FOREVER- burn alive Trillions.
Fifth- well- let me know if you want MORE!

Is there anything TRUE that they teach about Him...or, heh, 'Them'?

Three point I want to make to you here in public.
1) I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board.
2) Just for your edification Catholics are not considerred a Christian religion.
3) Name calling gets you nowhere unless you are in kindergarten class room.

As far as you not understanding the Christian belief, well we are here to help do that.

biblebuf

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Re: The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2013, 08:19:28 AM »
Endless accusations claiming otherwise are common, and the typical bigot merely CnPs huge lists from church sites.
On the other hand, when ONE is posted at a time, it is EASY to take a close look at the claim and see the TRUTH!

Any Takers?

We ALL know the the NWT has a gigantic 'head start', since it is one of the VERY few translations that does not REMOVE God's Name (that He said would be so FOREVER)- over 6,800 times! Also, it does not play 'musical chairs' as most do: translating the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul, hell, spirit. etc" with several DIFFERENT words, to hide their REAL meaning.

So- let's see if any of you can 'put your money where your MOUTH is'! :D

John 8:58
NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””.

Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.”

Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16).

theMadJW

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Re: TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2013, 08:37:32 AM »
Three point I want to make to you here in public.
1) I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board.
2) Just for your edification Catholics are not considerred a Christian religion.
3) Name calling gets you nowhere unless you are in kindergarten class room.

As far as you not understanding the Christian belief, well we are here to help do that.


Sorry to see you insist on your own mistaken beliefs; for the Catholic Church CREATED most of your Dogma, Admin.
Are you sincere enough to test it?
The Bible tells us to "Keep Testing" what we believe.

I certainly do.


theMadJW

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Re: TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2013, 08:38:42 AM »
" I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board."

Do you even know what a "GHOST" is?
Why the Catholic Church used THAT word?

admin

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Re: TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2013, 08:49:41 AM »
" I will not allow you to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost on this board."

Do you even know what a "GHOST" is?
Why the Catholic Church used THAT word?

The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit  or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations

NWT “On this account I say to ​YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven

I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.

theMadJW

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Re: The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2013, 08:51:22 AM »
John 8:58
NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””.

Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.”

Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16).


THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?

Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:

    1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
    2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
    3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
    4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
   
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ? 
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.


biblebuf

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Re: The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2013, 08:59:49 AM »

THANK you for posting one example- and pointing out how our translation alone does not follow the others!
WHY?

Any research into any interlinear will quickly show:

    1- "Ego Eimi" has several variations of meaning, as used by JUDAS, Gabriel, John, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc... "I am, I was, I have been, it is I, is it I? (Judas, Matt 26:22), I existed or I was (Christ). Often used in reference to THEMSELVES, there are many examples: Judas said it (Matt 26:22), John said it (John 1:20),
Peter said it (Acts 10:26), Paul said it (Acts 23:6), and Timothy did (1 Tim 1:15)
    2- There are NO uppercase/lower case letters in the Koine Greek- they are ADDED to John 8:58 by most translators- yet NEVER in all the other usages.
    3- Jesus didn't divert to avoid answering, didn't use e-bonics: he ANSWERED their question by telling them he was THERE when Abraham was. ( I EXISTED -ego eimi)
And,
    4- Jehovah used that SYMBOLIC NAME ONLY once, to emphasis that he EXISTED (Heb hayah haw-ya, meaning "to exist, be, or become)- and would PROVE it, since the Jews were starting to doubt it. That term was NEVER USED anywhere else in the OT, and certainly is not in the NT where "ego eimi" is. Besides it is HEBREW, not GREEK.
   
I know how devoted you are to your churches (worship).
Is it more so than to the God of Jesus Christ? 
If not, that is the simple TRUTH for you to accept, or to deny with all the ploys, excuses and spin that CHURCHianity is infamous for.

So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.

John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”

Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”

Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.

Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.

theMadJW

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Re: TEST: Is there ANYTHING Churchianity teaches about God that is TRUE?
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2013, 09:03:56 AM »
The words Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit  or just spirit are interchangeable in the bible and in most translations

NWT “On this account I say to ​YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven

I repeat for the last time I will not allow blasphemy against Him no matter of the name you choose to call Him.

Does that mean you will ban me for pointing out what God's Word says? Be my guest if your are that phony.
Truth will ALWAYS prevail; too bad you do not know that.

Question; Why did Jesus say blasphemies against HIM would be forgiven- but NOT against the holy spirit?
Does your church teach them Co-Supreme, Co-Equal?

"Ghost" is the word referring to the unseen 'immortal soul' of a 'dead' ,one that returns to earth to HAUNT PEOPLE.
When the RCC began, it used that term to terrify and mystify the highly superstitious masses.

"Holy"= set apart in purity
"Spirit"= "Wind, Breath" in the Hebrew and Greek, used by God to describe his form, those in heaven, and the unseen power he acts through.

We have been PROGRAMMED to read "holy spirit" as "the Holy Ghost-God"  - instead of what it REALLY is- the Holy Breath (spirit) of God.


God, Christ, and others referred to it as "it"
God fills people with IT, pours it out, and even split IT into portions. (Num 11)
God manifests it ONLY as a glowing light- NEVER in human form- as He , Christ, and angels were.
IT has no name, is NEVER seen in any of the visions of God & Christ.
Jesus NEVER tells us to praise, or serve it.

So, admin- how HONEST will you be...with YOURSELF?

theMadJW

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Re: The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2013, 09:05:55 AM »
So God did use other names other than Jehovah, thank you for being honesty.

John 17:3
NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”

Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.”

Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40.

Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life.

Thank you for your NEXT example- but won't you stick with the FIRST until settled?
Or do you ACKNOWLEDGE having Jesus speaking e-bonics is deceptive?