Author Topic: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?  (Read 3555 times)

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theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2013, 02:19:17 PM »
STILL no answer as to who Jesus' God is????

biblebuf

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2013, 03:59:45 PM »
First- nothing ANYWHERE in the Bible says or implies it's "immortal". That would mean Satan told Eve the TRUTH; that we never really die (stop living), since our good ol' 'immortal soul' would float off still alive. That would also make God the Liar- since he told them they would die...not Fry or Fly....

Second, the VERY FIRST REFERENCE to the human soul, if not warped by translation makes it VERY clear that no such 'soul' was put into Adam-

Gen 2:7- And Jehovah formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - KJV with God's Name put back in.

What is a spirit is it deffrent than the soul?

NWT
50 On hearing this, Jesus answered him: “Have no fear, only put forth faith, and she will be saved.” 51 When he reached the house he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter and John and James and the girl’s father and mother. 52 But people were all weeping and beating themselves in grief for her. So he said: “STOP​ weeping, for she did not die but is sleeping.” 53 At this they began to laugh at him scornfully, because they knew she had died. 54 But he took her by the hand and called, saying: “Girl, get up!” 55 And her spirit returned, and she rose instantly, and he ordered something to be given her to eat.

NWT
30 When, now, he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and, bowing his head, he delivered up [his] spirit.

OH It's the spirit that lives and does not die, amazing!

 Note that we learn later that Christ body had not gone up with his spirit but was delivered later on.

NWT
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and ​YOUR​ Father and to my God and ​YOUR​ God.’”

theMadJW

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2013, 04:04:51 PM »
biblebuf: What is a spirit is it deffrent than the soul?

The Bible uses two different words.
The soul refers to a specific living being or creature- or some part of it .
"Spirit" refers to an unseen energy, power (lit, breath, wind)- like the Holy Spirit, or the form being in Heaven have.

God keeps all things ALIVE by His Breath (spirit).
Those that were temporarily resurrected had that power RETURN enliving their soul/body.

theMadJW

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2013, 04:05:22 PM »
Do you deny those FIRST two points?

biblebuf

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2013, 04:33:33 PM »
Do you deny those FIRST two points?

I agree with the Scripture, do you?
Have you read about the new body?

NAS
5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord - 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight - 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.


YOUR BIBLE PUTS IT THIS WAY

20As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,21who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.


theMadJW

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2013, 05:03:52 PM »
BB, if you WANT to understand (and its sounding like you DON'T) stop thinking in churchese (church dogma).
Adam BECAME a soul. Animals and Fish are souls. (Genesis) Souls DIE. (Ezekiel) Souls are DESTROYED (CHrist).

There simply is NOTHING 'immortal' about them- unless God GIVES them immortality. 

When you read the word "spirit", think BREATH/WIND- for that is what the word really means.

God comforts us with His holy Breath (spirit).

biblebuf

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2013, 06:29:43 PM »
BB, if you WANT to understand (and its sounding like you DON'T) stop thinking in churchese (church dogma).
Adam BECAME a soul. Animals and Fish are souls. (Genesis) Souls DIE. (Ezekiel) Souls are DESTROYED (CHrist).

There simply is NOTHING 'immortal' about them- unless God GIVES them immortality. 

When you read the word "spirit", think BREATH/WIND- for that is what the word really means.

God comforts us with His holy Breath (spirit).

You don't get it do you?
Quote
John 3:6 CSB
Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

NWT
6 What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit

Are you born again in the spirit?

NWT
3In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4Nic‧o‧de′mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?”5Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Will you get a new body into conformity with the body of His glory?

No don't tell me, I see your going to be wind... fantastic!!!!

theMadJW

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Re: Just what really I the 'soul'?
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2013, 06:44:31 AM »
You don't get it do you?
Are you born again in the spirit?

NWT
3In answer Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4Nic‧o‧de′mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?”5Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Will you get a new body into conformity with the body of His glory?

No don't tell me, I see your going to be wind... fantastic!!!!


Ridiculing God's description is evidence of your insinjcerity- for he chose the word for Breath/Wind (ruach/pneuma) to describe his form and power.
Are you possessed of a Nameless Ghost-God, or filled with the holy breath of God?

theMadJW

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Re: The New World Translation- the Most Accurate of ALL Translations.
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2013, 06:45:56 AM »
No more takers?
maybe one day someone, somewhere WILL find an error; I haven't in over 30 years!

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2013, 08:19:38 AM »
No one here knows who the God of Jesus Christ is?

SHOCKING! heh

Xuan

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2018, 05:31:23 PM »
Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?

So He was by Himself or maybe not.


He was talking to Israel- who knew NOTHING about God having a son- and was comparing Himself to all the false gods they were starting to worship, believing that THEY had made all things. Your church teaches you NOTHING...

 Job 9:8 teaches that God alone created everything, and the context does not have to do with false gods being worshiped.
 

Xuan

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2018, 06:00:08 PM »
John 17:3- And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.


 In the New World Translation it reads that the Lord Jesus is our only owner and Lord. (the underlined is mine)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Jude+4

 But then in 2 Timothy 2:21 the Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that Jehovah is our owner.
2 Timothy 2:21
So if anyone keeps clear of the latter ones, he will be an instrument for an honorable use, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=2+Timothy+2%3A21

ACCEPT MOLDING BY JEHOVAH
15. To what extent would you like to be molded by Jehovah? Illustrate.
15 With the help of Jehovah’s worldwide congregation, we may become aware of Bible principles that deal with a specific course. For instance, we might know how we ought to respond if a brother seems to rub us the wrong way. (Eph. 4:32) We might admit that the Bible’s counsel is right and wise. Yet, what kind of clay will we prove to be? Will we really respond to being molded by Jehovah? If our heart is malleable, we will change for the better; the Great Potter will mold us into a vessel more suitable for his use. (Read Romans 9:20, 21; 2 Timothy 2:20, 21.) Rather than show a heart attitude like that of Jehoiakim or the slave owners in Zedekiah’s day, we should accept being molded by Jehovah for an honorable purpose.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010143


 To Whom does the only owner in heaven refer to? Jehovah (2 Timothy 2:21) or to the Lord Jesus (Jude 1:4)?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:22:48 PM by Xuan »

Fat

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2018, 06:30:45 PM »
Hello Xuan

I have a question that I cannot get the JWs to answer.

They claim that Christ is a lesser and separate God In the NWT John 1:1. But they have a problem explaining other scripture using that interpretation, for instance, “And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.” Mark‬ 10:18‬ NASB‬

What they must believe  is that their savior is not good.

When ask about this they say that Mark 10:18 reads the same in the KJV. But they cannot understand that it revolves around their mistranslation of John 1. By putting an “a” before God and using a low case “g” they have made themselves a savior that Christ would not have you call “good “.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:32:18 PM by Fat »

Xuan

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2018, 10:11:35 PM »
Hello Fat,

 That is an excellent point.

 That the Lord Jesus asked why He was being called "good" does not necessitate a denial. I'll give an example as to why it isn't a denial based on what I experienced many times when I first began teaching English in South Korea (1995). Oftentimes when children would see me they would say, "Miguk saram imnida!" meaning "You are an American!" However, they did this to many foreigners who happened to be Caucasian. Had I been able to speak Korean to them I would have asked them, "Why do you call me an American?" or "What makes you say that I am an American?" In both questions I am simply asking them the reason why they are calling me an American, but nowhere am I denying that I am an American (to which I am).

The absolute holiness of the Father and the absolute holiness of the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 6:9
Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. (NASB)
1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence. (NASB)
The Greek word for "Hallowed" in Matthew 6:9 is hagiazō and it is the same word used in reference to the Lord Jesus in 1 Peter 3:15 for "sanctify." Just as the Father is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness so too the Lord Jesus is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness.

G. W. Blenkin: Christians are to treat the indwelling presence of Christ, as Lord and Master in their hearts, as a kind of sacred shrine which must never be surrendered or profaned by cowardly fears or inconsistent conduct...In Isaiah the words are merely “Sanctify Jehovah.” The constant transference to Christ of language referring to Jehovah in the O.T. is one indication of the full Divinity ascribed to Christ by N.T. writers. (1 Peter, Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges)
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cgt/1-peter-3.html

Xuan

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2018, 10:26:57 PM »
No one here knows who the God of Jesus Christ is?

SHOCKING! heh

It's not shocking that the Father refers to the Lord Jesus as "God" in Hebrews 1:8 and the Lord Jesus refers to the Father as "God" in John 6:27.